Help making checklist use a habit

[GCA319]

Another good point. Checklists should not be books. The airliners I flew had checklist that fit on a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of poster board, yet the new 172 preflight checklist is 5 1/2 %^#*ing pages long. Seriously??? If a checklist is a book it will not be used.

The problem with alot of those book checklists you see at flight schools is the fact that they include redundencies out the ass. Stuff like "Atis-obtain" or "taxi clearance -obtain (121.7)". I mean really? If something like getting the atis or an atc clearance needs to be a checklist item to be remembered, there are some serious flaws in the instruction being given.

 

[stratobee]

The problem with alot of those book checklists you see at flight schools is the fact that they include redundencies out the ass. Stuff like "Atis-obtain" or "taxi clearance -obtain (121.7)". I mean really? If something like getting the atis or an atc clearance needs to be a checklist item to be remembered, there are some serious flaws in the instruction being given.

So agree. At the flight schools the lists go on and on and on and on ad nauseum. You could cut half of it probably.

 

[kenjr]

Ok, but what is an acceptable checklist? Is GUMPS a checklist? Is a flow pattern a checklist? Or are we always talking about a piece of paper?

We built our own checklist and I use it religiously for takeoff/runup. We have a placard takeoff and landing on the dash and I go through the takeoff one right as I'm pulling out to the runway and the landing one is basically a GUMPS check but that's what I use when I make my 10 mile call and don't pull a checklist out.

We don't have a climb or cruise checklist but my standard practice is to set the clock on takeoff so that I can keep track of time/fuel and know when to switch tanks.

Same thing on the ground - use the after landing checklist and of course even though I do the initial shutdown from memory, I always pull the checklist to make sure I didn't miss anything.

As everyone says, if it's too big or too much stuff it'll keep you from using it. Ours is simple, effective and we all use it.

 

[Gerhardt]

The problem with alot of those book checklists you see at flight schools is the fact that they include redundencies out the ass. Stuff like "Atis-obtain" or "taxi clearance -obtain (121.7)". I mean really? If something like getting the atis or an atc clearance needs to be a checklist item to be remembered, there are some serious flaws in the instruction being given.

I disagree. Those flight schools have primary students who are starting from scratch. Things like getting ATIS and taxi clearance helps for a few reasons. By putting it on the check list the CFI knows the student will do those items. But also, the student is already overwhelmed with new information so it makes it just a little easier for him/her with respect to the things to remember that are not on the check list. Sure, once they get several hours in their logbook move to an abbreviated list that doesn't include those items.

Funny enough, I still have those two items on my personalized checklists. I should probably have taken them off years ago but I'm still using the same ones. They don't seem to bother me.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not to me but if you do it right a before landing checklist should take no time at all.

However, GUMPS is a checklist in it's on right (or at least a configuration flow, if you want). If you get in the pattern and realize you haven't run the paper checklist yet and might have to dig for it or flip pages then, yes, I would agree that a GUMPS check gets the "gotcha" items and is sufficient and probably better than a bit of heads down time.

Obviously this only applies to aircraft that aren't complex and that you're familiar with.

Um, GUMPS stands for?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I use a written "before takeoff" checklist, but use a mental GUMPS check in the pattern.

I found being heads down looking at a checklist while near the airport impractical and perhaps unsafe.

What you may want to consider is how you are using that checklist. I view checklists as potentially containing 3 types of lists: "do," "did," and "brief."

"Do" is kind of the ones you started with as a student. Go to an item, read the item, do the item. Then move to the next.

"Did" is how many pilots use most of the checklists. A flow or mnemonic or "bold face" items in emergencies to accomplish the tasks backed up by a review of the items in a written checklist.

"Brief" is a third method. You would brief the takeoff procedure before crossing the hold line (beats rolling down the runway and then looking sown to see what rotation speed is).

"Brief" is also a viable method for the landing checklist. When you are not close to or in the pattern, you review and remind yourself of the items to be covered.

Is this a poor practice?

I'll answer that with a story. A pilot friend came to me for transition training into a 182. He, like many, had foregone using a before landing checklist since it's so easy in a 172. Not once did he close the cowl flaps for landing. And when told "you're missing something," not once did he even think of looking at the checklist, which was sitting in front of him, at eye level, on the glareshield.

This thread is discussing creating a habit of using a checklist. Consider my friend who had made a very strong habit of not using one, so strong that using one was not even a consideration.

 

[midlifeflyer]

OK, fine. But not single pilot, which was my original point. You can devote one pair of eyes outwards, while callouts and checklists is the responsibility of the other (or however you divide it).

Cape Air flies single pilot and the pilots use their checklists religiously according to a friend I have it the airline's management.

 

[DaytonaLynn]

Has anyone used the ones Sporty's sells that cling to the window?

Like Murphy our partnership reduced the size, not content, to a booklet that fits on the yoke. Being a fairly new trained pilot my CFI was a son of a gun about looking at the checklist when appropriate. If I didn't he would needs with something and I had to figure it out.
Glad he did that. Ingrained to use the checklists!

 

[Ruthless53]

I keep a standard everyday flight checklist that I made and laminated in the side pocket of the plane. I kept the checklist on my computer and before every cross country flight to an airport Im unfamiliar with (espescially with my family and no other pilot onboard) I add the destination airport information. I have lines dedicated to all the frequencies, runway numbers, airport altitude, any surrounding airspace notes (i.e. if under or close to class b), general direction of the closest 2 or 3 airports and frequency, and I also leave a space for drawing a rough diagram of the airport (with north up on the paper) and what direction I plan on coming in from so I know what runways Im looking at without seeing the numbers. Usually takes about 5-10 min to do.

Now all you high time pilots (like my dad) might see this as a waste of time or overkill but to me the prepartion of looking it up and thinking about where I'll be coming in from in relation to the airport really helps me fly the flight in my head before I leave. I find it helps my mind to be calmer when coming into the area and focusing on flying the plane rather than 2nd guessing myself navigating. I fly with a g430 and all that information is in the g430 but having that written as a quick reference guide for me really clears my head to fly the plane first.

 

[tehmightypirate]

Cape Air flies single pilot and the pilots use their checklists religiously according to a friend I have it the airline's management.

If anyone watches Guido Warnecke's YouTube channel he's SUPER professional all the time and regularly does single pilot operations in Citations and King Airs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Swq9M4Hwk

In those situations he'll be taxing through the ramp AND STILL running his before takeoff checklist, doesn't look like he's hit anything yet. While he obviously knows these planes by heart it still shows that single pilot pros still use the checklist 100% of the time.



Also, I too have "ATIS obtain" and other obvious stuff on my checklist. My thought being it takes 1 second to verify that it was done on the ground and, as we're on the ground, it doesn't really make that much of a difference so why not have it.

In the air, 100% efficiency all the way.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Also, I too have "ATIS obtain" and other obvious stuff on my checklist. My thought being it takes 1 second to verify that it was done on the ground and, as we're on the ground, it doesn't really make that much of a difference so why not have it.

The legitimate gripe of some is:

excess items on a checklist = not using the checklist​

That's true for a lot of people. And it's been recognized in some of the checklist literature - that overly long, non-ergonomic checklists end up not being used by most.

I've been using self-rolled checklists since my student days. 24 years later and I'm tweaking them to cover the essentials and trying to minimize the rest. There are indeed items that can be forgotten easily with significant consequences.

Missing "Boost pump - on" and in some aircraft "Boost pump - off" can have serious consequences.

OTOH, forget the ubiquitous Normal Takeoff checklist item, "Throttle Control - FULL (push full in)" and your only potential issue will be the traffic landing on top of you as you just sit there.

 

[PPC1052]

Not once did he close the cowl flaps for landing.

I am not familiar with operating a 182. Why would you close the cowl flaps for landing? In my POH (177B ), it only says to open them after you landed, or on a go around. I close them in cruise, and they stay closed until I land or I want to climb to higher altitude.

 

[clarkmueller]

I've had trouble in the past remembering to run checklists in airplanes that I'm familiar with, especially in later phases of flight. There are two things that helped me:

1. An instructor I checked out with one time gave me the tip to run a checklist anytime there's a "change in flight condition" (meaning takeoff, starting a climb, entering cruise, starting a descent, etc.). This seems obvious, but it has helped me remember.

2. Putting a yellow post-it note in a blank spot on the dark panel with "CHECKLIST?" written on it served as a great way to build the habit of using the checklist. I basically included the post-it note in my scan (and eventually didn't need it to remember).

I'm a big advocate of the concise CheckMate-style checklists. Easy to put on the kneeboard right in front of you all the time!

 

[PPC1052]

Also, I too have "ATIS obtain" and other obvious stuff on my checklist. My thought being it takes 1 second to verify that it was done on the ground and, as we're on the ground, it doesn't really make that much of a difference so why not have it.

I did not include that in my own home-made check list. I find it redundant, because I have a line for setting the altimeter. I can't do that unless I check the ATIS/ASOS. Well, that's not entirely true if I know the airport elevation, but it's still my reminder.

 

[PPC1052]

I tend to forget to run the pre-landing check list if I wait until I get to the pattern. I think it is because there is so much going on and I am looking around for traffic, so I get distracted. Given that there are items I want to do before descent (carb heat on, for instance), I just include my pre-landing checklist with my descent items and do them all at once. The only "gotcha" is mixture. I may not want to go full rich at the top of my descent, but I will want to before my approach to land. But that's not too much of an issue flying in the flat lowlands of the midwest.

 

[dans2992]

I tend to forget to run the pre-landing check list if I wait until I get to the pattern. I think it is because there is so much going on and I am looking around for traffic, so I get distracted. Given that there are items I want to do before descent (carb heat on, for instance), I just include my pre-landing checklist with my descent items and do them all at once. The only "gotcha" is mixture. I may not want to go full rich at the top of my descent, but I will want to before my approach to land. But that's not too much of an issue flying in the flat lowlands of the midwest.

Assuming you do maintain (near) cruise power during descent, is best practice to enrichen slowly as you descend?

That's what I do, but I hear a lot of people say "don't enrich on descent" which never made sense to me...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Assuming you do maintain (near) cruise power during descent, is best practice to enrichen slowly as you descend?

That's what I do, but I hear a lot of people say "don't enrich on descent" which never made sense to me...

I see you're flying a Comanche... So you probably aren't keeping cruse power in until the pattern.

In that case, you can simply reduce manifold pressure to keep it at or below cruise MAP. If you do that, you don't need to enrich the mixture on the way down. The engine doesn't know if it's at 23" because you're at 7000 MSL with wide open throttle or if it's at 23" because you're descending and have pulled the throttle back.

I progressively pull power back in the descent - I never cruise higher than 24", so I keep it at cruise power in the descent until beginning reductions to 22", 20", 17", and 14" at 20, 15, 10, and 5 miles from the destination, respectively.

So, I leave the red knob alone until I extend the gear, at which point I go full rich to help keep the engine cooling down at the lower airspeeds (thanks to Ted for suggesting that).

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Read the PTS for the CFI practical test...much better than opinions from those who hang out here.

The CFI PTS says that "the instructor applicant is evaluated on the use and teaching of an appropriate checklist." Nowhere is "appropriate" defined. Something tells me the guy EdFred had for his first CFI ride probably wouldn't take a home-brew checklist... And I've heard enough other stories about CFI rides where the examiner was a stickler for everything-aboslutely-by-the-book-and-we-don't-mean-anyone-else's-book that I'm concerned about it.

 

[GCA319]

I disagree. Those flight schools have primary students who are starting from scratch. Things like getting ATIS and taxi clearance helps for a few reasons. By putting it on the check list the CFI knows the student will do those items. But also, the student is already overwhelmed with new information so it makes it just a little easier for him/her with respect to the things to remember that are not on the check list. Sure, once they get several hours in their logbook move to an abbreviated list that doesn't include those items.

Funny enough, I still have those two items on my personalized checklists. I should probably have taken them off years ago but I'm still using the same ones. They don't seem to bother me.

My students can get the ATIS and obtain their taxi clearances just fine without it being printed on the checklist. It's all about appropriately briefing stuff like that on the ground before stepping into the airplane. After 2 or 3 flights, it becomes habit and they don't even think twice about it. And "switching to an abbreviated list" after several hours is pretty stupid and counterproductive IMHO. I want my students to be consistent and start developing habits from day 1 and switching checklists after a few flights go's against that.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The CFI PTS says that "the instructor applicant is evaluated on the use and teaching of an appropriate checklist." Nowhere is "appropriate" defined. Something tells me the guy EdFred had for his first CFI ride probably wouldn't take a home-brew checklist... And I've heard enough other stories about CFI rides where the examiner was a stickler for everything-aboslutely-by-the-book-and-we-don't-mean-anyone-else's-book that I'm concerned about it.

There are no requirement in Part 91 for an "approved checklist".

From Flightsafety:

The response from the FAA’s Flight Standards Service on March 25 was as follows:
“For Part 91 operators that are not operating under Subpart K, there is no FAA requirement for acceptance or approval of modified checklists. … The FAA encourages all Part 91 operators to utilize checklists when appropriate and ensure their (aircraft manufacturer or operator modified) checklist is complete and contains no errors.

 

[tehmightypirate]

There are no requirement in Part 91 for an "approved checklist".

From Flightsafety:

The response from the FAA’s Flight Standards Service on March 25 was as follows:
“For Part 91 operators that are not operating under Subpart K, there is no FAA requirement for acceptance or approval of modified checklists. … The FAA encourages all Part 91 operators to utilize checklists when appropriate and ensure their (aircraft manufacturer or operator modified) checklist is complete and contains no errors.

Good to hear, I figured that the lack of requirement meant just as that quote says but wasn't sure if it would get caught up in the "POH is the bible" FARs.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I am not familiar with operating a 182. Why would you close the cowl flaps for landing? In my POH (177B ), it only says to open them after you landed, or on a go around. I close them in cruise, and they stay closed until I land or I want to climb to higher altitude.

As I recall, the 177 has the same sequence as the 182 with "Cowl Flaps Closed" repeating in the cruise, descent and before landing checklists. Probably because there are situation where you might not close them in cruise and perhaps not in a powered descent.

In my case, the exercise was during training with multiple takeoffs and landings.

 

[FastEddieB]

I'm big on using checklists, and agree that many scream out to be personalized and streamlined.

But I present this as a cautionary tale, posted to the Cirrus Owner's site in 2008:

Here’s the setup:

Karen’s mom lives in Maryville, TN, and Karen still has a lot of friends in Knoxville, so every week or two she likes to visit. She had driven up Thursday. Saturday was a beautiful day in the southeast once the fog lifted, so I flew up in our Sky Arrow to pick her up.

It was a letter-perfect flight up. We ran some errands and then loaded up the plane to fly home. Another perfect flight, which took us over Fields of the Wood (the big Ten Commandments). We did a circle over that, flew over Copperhill, TN airport, then directly to Blue Ridge Skyport (57GA, my home base). Flew downwind, got full flaps in on base and was set up pretty much perfectly to slip between the trees on final and end another beautiful flight.

This view is from a Cirrus, and I now offset a bit more to the left and a little lower, but this was pretty much the view:

In fact, I was thinking what a pretty picture it would have made in the Sky Arrow, when at about 500’ and 55k I dropped the left wing and held some right rudder to slip down to the runway when...

...THE FREAKING CANOPY BLEW OPEN!!!

My Gander Mountain cap blew off, apparently exiting the plane. My headset, caught by the cord, ended up behind me.

I did not even consider futzing with the canopy. The relative wind was strong, but I had my glasses on and it wasn't worse than a motorcycle at about 65 mph.

Anyway, I did what I was taught to do: I flew the plane. In spite of the excitement I did a pretty darn good full-stall landing about 1/3 of the way down the 3,000’ runway.

As we taxied down the runway I looked around and saw the canopy latch was in the “OPEN” position. Here’s the latch in the proper, “CLOSED” position:

We taxied back to the hangar and shut down. We exited the plane. I felt like such a doofus.

Inspecting the plane, it seems that, other than a broken restraining cable (the one that normally holds the canopy when it’s in the open position on the ground) and some composite damage under the canopy hinges, everything else is fine.

It appears I never latched the canopy before takeoff in Knoxville. I’m amazed it gave no indication of that until it blew open.

I spent some time asking myself how, being “Mr. Checklist”, I could have missed something so important. We’re all human, but my checklist procedures are usually better than that.

In 80+ hours in the Sky Arrow I’d never forgotten the latch - I usually close and latch the canopy in one motion just prior to takeoff. But Karen remembers me closing it early in order to hear the ground controller better. Maybe that got me out of sequence somehow.

So, I got out my personalized checklist to see how I might have missed “Canopy - CLOSED AND LATCHED”, and guess what? It’s nowhere to be found.

The checklist that came with the Sky Arrow was about four pages long and contained so much extraneous stuff I streamlined it to essentials. Somehow I forgot to include the canopy check. Yikes!

Right now I can’t find the poster with the plane in the tree that talks about the unforgiving nature of flying*. I’d say! A one-line omission one night in front of my computer while typing up a checklist could have cost us our lives!

I was never “scared” after the canopy blew open - I was too busy dealing with the landing. Afterwards I was mainly peeved at and disappointed in myself and trying to figure out how it happened. Only later have I been playing out all the ways it could have gone a whole lot worse.

Remember, the Sky Arrow has a pusher prop, so had the canopy departed the plane it could have taken out the prop. Not to mention the aerodynamic blanketing effect that open canopy might have had on the right aileron and flap and on the horizontal stabilizer, elevator and rudder. The Sky Arrow has a T-tail and that probably helped somewhat.

Anyway, what’s the lesson? USE YOUR CHECKLIST is obvious - forgetting the canopy latch is not something I’d want to do on a regular basis. But, equally important, CHECK YOUR CHECKLISTS, especially if you’ve modified, personalized or streamlined them in any way. Make sure ALL the important stuff is there.

And, in closing, let me just say what a trouper Karen is. She said she shouted “OMIGOD” when the canopy blew, not knowing if I had been injured or if I could control the plane. I don’t remember hearing her (but I was kinda focused on something else!). In any case she still has faith in me and is ready, willing and able to go up with me anytime.

I think I’ll keep her!


*Found it:

 

[tehmightypirate]

I'm big on using checklists, and agree that many scream out to be personalized and streamlined.

But I present this as a cautionary tale, posted to the Cirrus Owner's site in 2008...

Great lesson that I think we can all learn from. I had a similar thing happen about 8 hours before I got my private. All super confident me, ready to take off, couldn't be happier thinking "I'm almost ready for the practical!" Well, upon applying takeoff power my window blew open. Quickly fixed and I knew I could just takeoff with it open but it was shocking to my that I forgot it.

So I completely agree that, while some things can be streamlined, I will always keep my preflight and before takeoff items 100% complete to every task I want to do in the plane.

 

[bluerooster]

The checklist that I use has 5x7 laminated pages. each page deals with a specific phase of flight.
just get to page 1, for pre-flight inspection, then flip to start-up, flip to run-up, flip to takeoff, flip to landing. emergency procedures on the back of each page, so just turn it over.
Then there's the ingrained mental thing that I do prior to takeoff, just a simple double check of; Master on, mags on both, flight instruments set, flaps set trim set, fuel set, doors closed and locked, let's rock.
Now In our T-50 the checklist was a 3" thick 3 ring binder. and fuel was controled by 4 seperate valves, but only two tanks. Only had 2 magnetos for 2 engines, and startup was a ritual, rather than a procedure. But at least the tailwheel lock was right next to the elevator trim, and had the same kind of handle.

 

[SoloEqs]

Go you YouTube and watch some of the training films for WWII planes, and you will never again complain that the checklist on your bird is too long.