Helicopter vs airplane

[4RNB]

Are there helicopter pilots here?
is there a better forum for heli discussions?
Why fly one or another?
What is different? I am thinking in terms of wind and turbulence or IFR.
What else?
I've ordered the FAA book.

 

[mondtster]

Theyre a different tool for a different job. What are you hoping to do with one?

 

[Baked Potato]

Plane goes this way ->
Helicopter goes this way ^

 

[4RNB]

Theyre a different tool for a different job. What are you hoping to do with one?

I know someone buying one, might try and tag along for the ride. Spending the day learning.

OCD can be fun...

 

[SoonerAviator]

I would imagine much of it comes back to specific missions. If you need to get in/out of a location that doesn't have a runway, a helicopter is a good fit. Missions where you need to hover or be close to fixed structures obviously favor the helicopter. Most everything involving an XC or runways at both ends of the trip is going to be cheaper/better served by a fixed wing.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Are there helicopter pilots here?

Yes, several

is there a better forum for heli discussions?

Maybe one of the other RW guys can chime in on that.

Why fly one or another?

Different missions. Helicopters are good for off airport ops type situations. Also low and slow type applications.

For cross country type flying? Not as good.

What is different? I am thinking in terms of wind and turbulence or IFR.

Helicopters ride wind and turbulance much better than airplanes. When it's really rough for airplanes, the helicopter does much better.

I've ordered the FAA book.

Have fun.

 

[WDD]

I often wonder if I was ever in a situation where I had to fly a helicopter as a SEL pilot, would I 1) have a 50%/50% chance of pulling it off, however badly, or 2) would immediately create a smoldering hole where even dental records wouldn't help.

 

[Bell206]

What else?

Just to add to the above. There are rotor forums out there but mostly tuned to the commercial side. However, you can still get some input from them. The forums that are geared toward private ops tend to have very limited participation and you can probably get a better response on PoA for most of your basic questions with the people here. Once you get that basic knowledge then perhaps move over to the "commercial" forums as you'll be able to utilize the discussions more directly. Unfortunately some of those forums tend to have more drama than useable info like some airplane forums. On books, if you decide to pursue an add-on there are a number of good books out there like Shawn Coyle's Cyclic and Collective. People may always whine that helicopters cost too much and so on, but in reality a basic helicopter costs no more than a twin airplane and look how many of those are flying around. Now whether you want a helicopter over a twin all depends on where you want to go and do.

 

[skier]

I often wonder if I was ever in a situation where I had to fly a helicopter as a SEL pilot, would I 1) have a 50%/50% chance of pulling it off, however badly, or 2) would immediately create a smoldering hole where even dental records wouldn't help.

As a fixed wing pilot with several hours in several different helicopters, I feel fairly confident that the answer is a smoldering hole. That said I’d wager that dental records could probably help to identify your body.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I often wonder if I was ever in a situation where I had to fly a helicopter as a SEL pilot, would I 1) have a 50%/50% chance of pulling it off, however badly, or 2) would immediately create a smoldering hole where even dental records wouldn't help.

 

[BrianP]

Where did @Geico266 go? I believe he turned sling wing and stopped posting here..

 

[iamtheari]

As a fixed wing pilot with several hours in several different helicopters, I feel fairly confident that the answer is a smoldering hole. That said I’d wager that dental records could probably help to identify your body.

What about a tail wheel pilot? Would we last longer because of our superior rudder skills, or would we just ball it up a moment later when we strike the tail rotor trying to land?

I want to learn how to fly helicopters, but only if I can do it in my favorite type of helicopter in all the world: someone else’s. And also that someone else is paying for. And also after I get my worldly affairs in order. So, in conclusion, I will never learn how to fly helicopters.

 

[Daleandee]

 

[Warlock]

Most of my hours are in Army aircraft (Helicopters) and it might not be pretty but I bet any SEL fixed wing guy with no experience could do a running landing if they had a basic understanding of the controls…hover no…and any conventional gear pilot it would be a breeze…as you got to use them feet. Any touchdown on a runway with forward speed in ETL is not hard at 20knots…Even skids slide for a while and can be replaced, but most have shoes just for that purpose.

 

[Maxnr]

Are there helicopter pilots here?
is there a better forum for heli discussions?
Why fly one or another?
What is different? I am thinking in terms of wind and turbulence or IFR.
What else?
I've ordered the FAA book.

Wind, turbulance and IFR? Can you get your mind around a hurricane eye wall penetration in a Sikorsky 76?

 

[mondtster]

What about a tail wheel pilot? Would we last longer because of our superior rudder skills, or would we just ball it up a moment later when we strike the tail rotor trying to land?

In my opinion, having experience with conventional gear helps. At least the pilot likely knows that the pedals aren't footrests. Beyond that, I don't really feel that airplane flying skills really translate into useful helicopter flying skills.

 

[Brad W]

I'm not a rotor pilot
but I wish I was. I've always wanted to fly helicopters, even more then fixed wing
I think for me it's the potential for off airport operations, and also low and slow flight.

 

[RudyP]

As a fixed wing pilot with several hours in several different helicopters, I feel fairly confident that the answer is a smoldering hole. That said I’d wager that dental records could probably help to identify your body.

Disclaimer - I have very few logged helicopter hours and only about a dozen total (mostly unlogged)... but, I will say that as a pretty experienced RC helicopter pilot, I actually did not find it all that hard to fly a full scale helicopter. I needed to adapt to the rate of response of the cyclic which at least in the R22, R66 and Bell 206 that I have flown is very different than a 3D RC heli, but that subconscious brain hardwire of how to react to natural drift in hover and constantly make minor corrections to keep it is steady was very useful. I wouldn't really want to fly one solo because I'm not 100% confident in my ability under all situations and don't need to risk my life but if you bet me $100 to fly one safely in a sim, I'd take that bet and I'm 98% sure, I'd be fine.

 

[WDD]

Flip it - would a rotor guy if he/she had with no previous experience be able to fly a fixed wing ASEL?

 

[mondtster]

Flip it - would a rotor guy if he/she had with no previous experience be able to fly a fixed wing ASEL?

Likely. You can be half asleep and not know what you're doing in an airplane and still have a decent result because the airplane will generally fly itself.

 

[Paul V]

I’ve owned and operated an R44 for a few years and can chime in on a few points. I fly a mix of personal and business flights.

helicopters are exceedingly fun to fly. They are the closest thing to a magic carpet.

they can be very useful if you need and are able to land them somewhere where airplanes can’t go.

from a cost standpoint your basic R22 doesn’t cost much more than a basic 4 place single airplane to own and an R44 costs about as much to own as a piston twin so yes they are more expensive than the equivalent airplane but are not in a whole different level either. Ownership is much more complicated however since for most helicopters a substantial percentage of components are life limited and become unairworthy after reaching a certain number of operating hours or calendar months or both. If run enough hours, the hourly costs can wind up being somewhat decent but with the high fixed costs and in some cases time limited parts, operating too few hours per year can make hourly costs silly high.

insurance is stupid expensive and you must hangar it.

Turbine helicopters are in a whole different league in terms of cost. That is true for airplanes as well though.

renting doesn’t really work. Most operators won’t rent out their helicopters and the ones that do rarely will let you hold on to it for a few days for a trip. That’s fine if all you want to do is fly around locally and bring it back but if you plan on going places and staying over ownership makes more sense.

I fly mine cross country a lot (most of my flights). It works reasonably well but beyond a certain distance it’s just too slow and not cost effective.

the biggest problem for real world use is the lack of IFR certification. Very few helicopters are approved for IFR and as far as I know, no piston helicopters are.

 

[Paul V]

Also, as has been already stated by others, there are helicopter pilots on these forums. There are also a handful of other forums but the last few years, those other forums have been quite dead. It seems most of the community has moved to Facebook groups. These Facebook groups tend to be geared more to pilots flying commercial operations.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

@Paul V nailed it.

 

[gearFX]

Theyre a different tool for a different job. What are you hoping to do with one?

Hopefully not this...

 

[Kritchlow]

From a rotor layman’s point if view… I know mist of the theory. I would say my chances are close to 0% of being able to handle a helicopter without instruction. How much instruction? God only knows. Its not like flying an airplane.

To the OP… I know just enough to say the outcome would not go in your favor.

 

[Piperonca]

Likely. You can be half asleep and not know what you're doing in an airplane and still have a decent result because the airplane will generally fly itself.

Only problem may be high time rotary pilots, stepping into a Cessna, might have a tendency to get slow on approach, because they aren’t thinking about stalling.

 

[mondtster]

Only problem may be high time rotary pilots, stepping into a Cessna, might have a tendency to get slow on approach, because they aren’t thinking about stalling.

I agree, that’s a real risk. I still think the odds of a good outcome with a non-rated rotary pilot successfully flying a light airplane with no guidance or prior experience are far greater than a fixed wing pilot in a helicopter.

 

[stickwiglr]

When my approaches started getting real good in the helicopter I found my approaches in the airplane getting slow. Odd as I started in fixed wing. But once I realized that it has never been a problem since.

 

[Brad Z]

Another thing to consider is that unless you live out in the boonies, or are planning to visit the boonies, it's hard to find places to land your helicopter that are not a designated airport. While you might get permission to land in the parking lot a business you wish to visit, you have to check the local ordinances to make sure it's legal to land and take-off in that jurisdiction. People are very sensitive to noise and safety concerns so many local governments have taken to regulating helicopter landing areas.

So just don't expect to land wherever you'd like. When you're forced to fly from airport to airport, you might as well just fly a fixed wing.

 

[Velocity173]

Well not much to add as far as general differences that hasn’t already been stated. To the question of flying in turbulence or flying IFR well it depends.

First, generally you see helicopters react better to turbulence because of the rotor blades ability to flex. In moderate or greater you can see the tip path plane
flex up and down. Now, that doesn’t mean you won’t be displaced from attitude, altitude and heading. It’s just a more cushioned blow vs a jolt in an airplane. Obviously a lot on that depends on disk loading (lb / ft). Also in turbulence you get way more fishtailing because of the small vertical fins. Those vert fins and side plates are really only up to the task of offsetting torque in forward flight and assisting lateral trim. Doesn’t help much in turbulence.

As far as IFR flying, well unless you’re in the military or flying SPIFR EMS aircraft like H135,H145,A109,etc or larger aircraft such S76,S92,AW139, etc, you won’t be flying in actual. You might have an aircraft such as an R44 fully equipped as in part 91 instrumentation, but won’t be certified IAW part 27 requirements. The primary reason being, helicopters just aren’t statically stable enough to be used as an instrument platform. They also require more redundancy (dual pitot static / generators, etc). For instance, our company operates IFR H135s. In order to fly IFR, they have to have both stabilizing devices working (SAS) and a functional AP. All my IFR helo time is Army and while I didn’t have an AP, the Black Hawk was required to have both SAS and flight path stabilization (FPS) functioning. Of course I talk trash to the lazy 135 guys and that I used to fly in actual weather with both hands and feet without the luxury of an AP.

The other aspect of IFR flying in helos, is that they have a different set of IAPs for them. TERPS criteria is modified for Copter Approaches. Generally a copter approach has a higher glide path angle and obviously they use a slower speed on final. A lot of copter IAPs are proprietary ones that a company has made by a contractor. For instance, we have approaches set up all over at certain hospitals. Won’t get ya down super low, but they can pick up a patient that a VFR guy such as myself can’t get to.

 

[Eric Miles]

Anybody know how general aviation helicopters are hangared? My 182 is in a t hangar. An R44 would fit but not sure how/where I could take off. Feels like it would need to be towed somewhere way out on the ramp. Just curious what others have seen?

 

[Velocity173]

Anybody know how general aviation helicopters are hangared? My 182 is in a t hangar. An R44 would fit but not sure how/where I could take off. Feels like it would need to be towed somewhere way out on the ramp. Just curious what others have seen?

Either by a small pad they land on and towed into the hanger or a heliporter that lifts the aircraft up and is pulled by a motor into the hanger. A wheeled aircraft will use a tug and someone sits up front to release / set the brakes.

 

[Bell206]

Anybody know how general aviation helicopters are hangared?

Helicopters will basically fit anywhere within reason but have seen them parked in corners of big hangars to parked in your standard 42-44 foot T-hangars. And this includes turbine models as well. They can also be parked in between fixed wing aircraft if needed. Even ones with 3 or 4 M/R blades will fit and where they don't owners will install a blade folding kit to make it work. Unfortunately, the only downside to this ability is you usually have to pull the helicopter out to work on it depending how tightly it is packed in.

Feels like it would need to be towed somewhere way out on the ramp.

This depends on the airport rules. Most of your larger airports have rotorcraft operating areas for flight ops. Some permit ground runs only close to hangars, and still others would let you take off from inside your hangar if you want.

 

[Piperonca]

Hopefully not this...

Classic case of 'running out of left pedal' in a Huey. H model fleet have the L-13 engines, and the older D models had L-11s with about 200 less horsepower. As it turned out the UH-1H could hover out of ground effect (HOGE) at a higher density altitude than it had effective anti-torque control. When the Army put more powerful engines in they did not resize the tail rotor. The D was perfectly balanced in that regard--you had tail rotor authority all the way up to main rotor drooping RPM. I had an H model weathervane on me a couple times at low speed, high altitudes and adverse winds.

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

I often wonder if I was ever in a situation where I had to fly a helicopter as a SEL pilot, would I 1) have a 50%/50% chance of pulling it off, however badly, or 2) would immediately create a smoldering hole where even dental records wouldn't help.

"Hogg, get away from that thing!"

 

[iamtheari]

Either by a small pad they land on and towed into the hanger or a heliporter that lifts the aircraft up and is pulled by a motor into the hanger. A wheeled aircraft will use a tug and someone sits up front to release / set the brakes.

 

[Velocity173]

Ooohh, radio control. Must be a new thing. I like how it goes under the skids and doesn’t attach to the cross tubes as well. Can’t even begin to tell you how many aircraft reports I’ve read in my company about belly damage from the heliporters we use. 3 am, tired and in a hurry is a recipe for a punctured belly.

 

[iamtheari]

Ooohh, radio control. Must be a new thing. I like how it goes under the skids and doesn’t attach to the cross tubes as well. Can’t even begin to tell you how many aircraft reports I’ve read in my company about belly damage from the heliporters we use. 3 am, tired and in a hurry is a recipe for a punctured belly.

I have their tug for my plane. The airplane version is a lot lower price than the helicopter one. They have a tent at Oshkosh with some special deals. But at any price, walking the wingtips when you’re pushing the plane into a dark, tight hangar on your own is a game changer.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Feels like it would need to be towed somewhere way out on the ramp

Paint an H in a circle in front of the hangar...

https://goo.gl/maps/hVnTwQAQ8KrmXg4D9

 

[Maxnr]

Classic case of 'running out of left pedal' in a Huey. H model fleet have the L-13 engines, and the older D models had L-11s with about 200 less horsepower. As it turned out the UH-1H could hover out of ground effect (HOGE) at a higher density altitude than it had effective anti-torque control. When the Army put more powerful engines in they did not resize the tail rotor. The D was perfectly balanced in that regard--you had tail rotor authority all the way up to main rotor drooping RPM. I had an H model weathervane on me a couple times at low speed, high altitudes and adverse winds.

The civilian version (BH-205A1) had its T.R. switched to the R. side and was a little better.