Helicopter/Small Plane Down in Hudson

That sucks!!! Hope it wasn't anyone I know! One rescued. Doubt they'd close the corridor. It IS a bee's nest tho!
 
Re: Hudson River collision

Already posted in another thread.
 
Bad deal. I don't know about the eyewitness report of "possibly pulling a banner" as they don't do banner tows out of KTEB .

All the info is very vague so far, but I already see this primarily as a case of the fixed-wing pilot getting too low (and maybe not listening/talking/looking).

There's no minimum there other than the usual 500-foot rule, but it is widely known, and indicated on the chart, that the tour choppers tend to hang around quite low, unless they're headed to KTEB or KEWR or other points west. There's aso a riverside heliport right there, on the NY side... they obviously converge there, but again, they're quite low when coming and going from the pads. I've never had trouble staying clear of them, and have never seen them pop up near the normal 1000-foot fixed-wing traffic altitude. They also are very scrupulous about monitoring and announcing on the CTAF.

But I have seen fixed-wing ops in that area at 500 feet or so, especially around the statue ... I can't say I approve of that, or recommend it.

Not condemning the pilot per se... just something to think about if you are ever planning to fly through there. There's plenty of room there, in all 3 dimensions, for lots of different traffic- if everybody acts conservatively and predictably.
 
rottydaddy said:
Bad deal. I don't know about the eyewitness report of "possibly pulling a banner" as they don't do banner tows out of KTEB .

All the info is very vague so far, but I already see this primarily as a case of the fixed-wing pilot getting too low (and maybe not listening/talking/looking).

There's no minimum there other than the usual 500-foot rule, but it is widely known, and indicated on the chart, that the tour choppers tend to hang around quite low, unless they're headed to KTEB or KEWR or other points west. There's aso a riverside heliport right there, on the NY side... they obviously converge there, but again, they're quite low when coming and going from the pads. I've never had trouble staying clear of them, and have never seen them pop up near the normal 1000-foot fixed-wing traffic altitude. They also are very scrupulous about monitoring and announcing on the CTAF.

But I have seen fixed-wing ops in that area at 500 feet or so, especially around the statue ... I can't say I approve of that, or recommend it.

Not condemning the pilot per se... just something to think about if you are ever planning to fly through there. There's plenty of room there, in all 3 dimensions, for lots of different traffic- if everybody acts conservatively and predictably.
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I thought you had to be down around 500ft around the statue to avoid the Bravo?
 
N71MC,.. based at my home airport, Wings Field PA. I don't know any info other than what is posted above. Hope everyone is ok.
 
I was walking down by the river when this happened and saw the response - tons of police cars, boats and NYPD/Port Authority helicopters. Bloomberg was very level-headed (he's a pilot, rotor and fixed wing, after all) in the press conference - so I'm hopeful they won't overreact and close the corrador. Prayers to those who lost family/friends in this.
 
wsuffa said:
Bloomburg's not much better than Daley when it comes to wanting to close airspace.
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jfmhpn said:
Bloomberg was very level-headed (he's a pilot, rotor and fixed wing, after all) in the press conference - so I'm hopeful they won't overreact and close the corrador.
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Can someone reconcile these two apparently contradictory statements for me?
 
Below 1100' to avoid the class-bravo. In my experience, helicopters are usually at around 700'. It is a zoo, but fun and safe if you keep your eyes outside and make proper position reports (and listen for those of others). Every time I've flown it (in both rotor & fixed wing), traffic has been very orderly and communications was smooth.
 
I've never heard Bloomberg say anything that was in any way anti-aviation, much to the contrary, even when Cory Lidle crashed into the building, he was very level-headed and tried to calm concerns and calls to close the VFR airspace around Manhattan. In the end they did end up restricting the East River to fixed-wing traffic, but that seemed like a relatively minor restriction given the limited utility of that airspace anyway.

In the press conference today, he specifically talked about how NYC wants to remain accessible and keep transportation flowing smoothly when one of the reporters asked about restrictions.
 
gprellwitz said:
Can someone reconcile these two apparently contradictory statements for me?
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My observation only. Others may have differing opinions. Bloomburg reacts to constituents - from what I could tell he was supportive of closing the east river. I may well be wrong, and if so, I'll say so...
 
His quote that I liked a lot was in that article:

~~~ snip ~~~~
The Mayor, who does have his pilot's license, said, "If you want to look at the numbers, we have very few accidents for an awful lot of traffic. And any time you have an automobile accident, you're not going to go and close the streets or prohibit people from driving."
 
A small plane collided with a sightseeing helicopter carrying Italian tourists over the Hudson River on Saturday, scattering debris in the water and forcing people on the New Jersey waterfront to scamper for cover.
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Hmm, Italian...New Jersey....hmmmmm
 
There's a huge difference between the east river and the Hudson. The east river was a dead end in terms of the corridor while the Hudson is a highway thru the area. I just flew the Hudson river corridor over the July 4 weekend and while it's busy, it's quite managable. I will say that I did not encounter any helo traffic at 1000-1500 where I was ( in and out of the B Space ). I question what he was doing up there ( assumming the inital reports are correct and the accident happened at 1100 hundred feet).
 
I flew the Hudson Corridor back in 2005, and circled the statue. It was about the same as the traffic pattern at a busy uncontrolled airport. No worse...
 
Bob Tur's idea is not a bad one. He was just on Fox News talking about how it would increase safety to require helicopters to remain at or below 500 feet and fixed wing at or above 500/below 1100 within the corridor.
 
Yeah, I like that idea too. They might want to use a slightly higher limit for helicopters, so they can get over the GWB with enough clearance. Maybe 600 or 700 ft.

Amazing photos on Fox News. I wonder if there's any video of this?
 
jfmhpn said:
....
Amazing photos on Fox News. I wonder if there's any video of this?
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The NBC reporter a pilot, did a decent job of explaining - was almost lusting over getting some live security footage.

Imagine if they tried to bring the controlled Bravo airspace down to the surface. Exactly which ATC in NYC would have the time to clear all thos ehelicopters?

This will turn into a push for moving up the mandatory ADS-B deadline.

Look for Duh Mare to chime in next week. He needs to divert attention from hsi pals already lining up to feed at the 2016 Olympics trough.
 
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Fox wins the first video prize.

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Somebody found a picture of the plane in flight. A retractable. Looked like it was a Piper Arrow.
 

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mikea said:
Fox wins the first video prize.

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Somebody found a picture of the plane in flight. A retractable. Looked like it was a Piper Arrow.
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Separated wing, spewing atomized fuel, PA-32 upside down due to unequal lift. Matches the eyewitness reports.

Very sad for their families....
 
From flightaware:

N71MC

Aircraft Summary
1976 PIPER PA-32R-300

Owner
LCA PARTNERSHIP
FORT WASHINGTON, PA
(Partnership)
 
jfmhpn said:
NY Times is reporting the name of the owner of the PA-32
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/continuous/09crash.html?_r=1&hp

Sad
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You know, the media really ticks me off sometimes, at their general lack of sensitivity in an effort to scoop the others:

A distraught woman who answered the phone at the home of S----- A----- in Fort Washington, Pa., a Philadelphia suburb, said that Mr. A------, her husband, owns the plane involved in the crash.
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GIVE HER A BREAK AND SOME TIME TO GRIEVE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. It bothers me greatly when they call victims families in the immediate hours following a tragedy.
 
Why is this headline news? Never mind, I know why - it makes for a good story.

In what way is it important? It isn't. If only we had media that reported on the news that affected us :(
 
One question. Was the Eurocopter required to have TCAS? I know that it became required on a bunch of turbine powered aircraft recently (this decade) but the Eurocopter may have been small enough to avoid that reg.
 
wbarnhill said:
First thing I thought of too. Bah. :(
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I really hope not. Flown the corridor both as pilot and passenger. Yes, it's a bit tight and the pilot HAS to be on a sharp lookout at all times, but I've never felt it was unsafe. The pilot cannot be sightseeing along with the passengers.

Very tragic, God rest their souls.

Gary
 
jfmhpn said:
NY Times is reporting the name of the owner of the PA-32
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/continuous/09crash.html?_r=1&hp

Sad
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Here we go.

Saturday’s crash raised questions about the scores of virtually unregulated low-altitude flights every day in a busy corridor over the Hudson. Helicopters and small planes may fly over the river under a 1,100-foot ceiling, well below a 5,000-foot minimum altitude in airspace reserved for airliners.
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At risk of sending this to Spin Zone, once again,the MSM is trying to whip folks into a frenzy for more regulatiions.
 
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