Helicopter pilot shortage

[Velocity173]

Interesting article on the state of helo jobs. Leans towards going the FW route since that’s the future of the author. He leaves some QOL aspects out and his pay chart is way off but worth the read for prospective helo folks.

https://gotsky.net/pilot-shortage-4-key-factors/

 

[Radar Contact]

Interesting and well put together. Thanks for posting.

A) Hopefully for you helo pilot's, lack of supply with continued demand will result in better wages?
B) The "love is blind" photo was great!

 

[Velocity173]

Interesting and well put together. Thanks for posting.

A) Hopefully for you helo pilot's, lack of supply with continued demand will result in better wages?
B) The "love is blind" photo was great!

Yep, we just got a bump in pay on top of our annual pay due to pilot shortage. We’re losing them from EMS mostly to the airlines but a lot go to overseas contract helo jobs making twice the pay. Oil & gas (twins) pay well also.

For me, it comes down to how much of a hassle (flight planning, time from home, politics) comes with the job more than salary. When you consider I flew like 150 hrs for work last year, I’m over paid...don’t tell the company I said that though.

 

[hindsight2020]

I can't speak for the third decimal place accuracy of the pay argument since I don't follow helo compensation trends in the least. Now, QOL is certainly a big trump card in people's decisions, but there's a lot more nuance to that trade than meets the eye. That's a sore subject for many because it juxtaposes two distinct economic demographics of professional pilots against each other. Personally I wouldn't and don't discount the economic motivations of those competing against me for the job I want, when it comes to setting my own expectations of compensation in order to meet my personal-finances and QOL goals. I took one look at our GINI index, and I flat out don't believe in labor shortages in 2018. I only believe in pay shortages in 2018.

I will say, the "silent second-income" argument isn't really unique to aviation. Should one adopt a dual-income mindset as a go/no-go on whether or not the job is worth pursuing? Many reject the idea such a consideration should be part of vocational choices, but from where I sit that metric has more to do with prevailing wages than any so-called shortage of qualified people.

IOW, qualified people not able to afford the job's offered wage does not equate to a shortage of pilots. It seems like semantics and/or a distinction without a difference, but that couldn't be farther from the case. It is quite central to this current play on words the industry is knee-deep involved in, which is why I strenuously reject the premise of a shortage in the first place.

Personally, though I hope for the sake of helo pilots that compensation and work rules improve in earnest, I just don't see that becoming the case.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

No different than the teacher shortage in Indiana; They are now considering whether to let non-certified individuals teach.

Labor shortage? Yes. Cause? Low enough pay to where it makes more sense for folks to work on another career path.

That’s simple economics, supply and demand.

 

[weilke]

80k for training expenses to get a job sounds like a lot until you start looking into college tuition.

 

[hindsight2020]

No different than the teacher shortage in Indiana; They are now considering whether to let non-certified individuals teach.

Labor shortage? Yes. Cause? Low enough pay to where it makes more sense for folks to work on another career path.

That’s simple economics, supply and demand.

Nah, it's a bit more nuanced than that. Not to be a pedant, but you're using the term shortage incorrectly in terms of economics. A shortage in economics, is the lack of supply regardless of price. In practice, this yields an environment that seeks to disprove or dismiss the existence of shadow inventory. In reality, there is a huge shadow inventory in this Country, one that's extremely politically inconvenient for employers. Thence they seek to use a fallacious shortage narrative in order to dilute the qualifications to the degree that lower-qualified individuals can undercut said shadow inventory.

I'm not saying that's what's going on in Indiana, but last time I spoke with my teacher acquaintance in Mishawaka (I'm a Purdue [flagship campus] graduate school alumni circa Fall '05) it was years of drudging through Head Start crap wage jobs before she would be given access to a classrom job in earnest. Hardly a shortage at the time. And yes, her pay is atrocious but she does it because it's home for her. I wouldn't remain somewhere at my economic expense just because of family, but I 100% understand her choice. I'm sure pay hasn't improved in earnest up there since 2006. That's not a shortage of qualified individuals though, only a shortage of people willing to work full time for pay that doesn't get you a middle class life as defined by the trope we all understand to mean middle class when we grew up. Contrarians would suggest such definitions are really upper class lifestyles. But of course, if they indeed are vestiges of upper class expectations, then they'd have to admit this Country is poor as s---t, which would fly in the face of the GDP we pump. Which is why I purposely made reference to GINI index in my prior post. Aka, one can't have it both ways when it comes to telling people to be grateful for their crappy pay/retirement so-called careers (more like "perma-gigs") whilst also bemoaning a labor shortage.

 

[Velocity173]

I can't speak for the third decimal place accuracy of the pay argument since I don't follow helo compensation trends in the least. Now, QOL is certainly a big trump card in people's decisions, but there's a lot more nuance to that trade than meets the eye. That's a sore subject for many because it juxtaposes two distinct economic demographics of professional pilots against each other. Personally I wouldn't and don't discount the economic motivations of those competing against me for the job I want, when it comes to setting my own expectations of compensation in order to meet my personal-finances and QOL goals. I took one look at our GINI index, and I flat out don't believe in labor shortages in 2018. I only believe in pay shortages in 2018.

I will say, the "silent second-income" argument isn't really unique to aviation. Should one adopt a dual-income mindset as a go/no-go on whether or not the job is worth pursuing? Many reject the idea such a consideration should be part of vocational choices, but from where I sit that metric has more to do with prevailing wages than any so-called shortage of qualified people.

IOW, qualified people not able to afford the job's offered wage does not equate to a shortage of pilots. It seems like semantics and/or a distinction without a difference, but that couldn't be farther from the case. It is quite central to this current play on words the industry is knee-deep involved in, which is why I strenuously reject the premise of a shortage in the first place.

Personally, though I hope for the sake of helo pilots that compensation and work rules improve in earnest, I just don't see that becoming the case.

But there is a shortage of qualified pilots in the helicopter community in general. Even in overseas contracts that pay a decent salary.

It’s a different dynamic than in the airline community. We have plenty of 300-500hr helo CFIs out there. Post 9/11 GI Bill took care of that. Problem is, the primary jobs they’ll qualify for are piston tours or utility. There aren’t enough of those jobs right now to absorb those low hour pilots. The other problem is, most of your better paying jobs require turbine time. Our company requires a min of 2,000 hrs helo with 1,000 of those being turbine. You could have 10,000 hrs of R44 time and no chance of getting a job in EMS. Imagine if the Regionals required that kind of time? They would truly have a pilot shortage then.

Another problem is, a lot of helo jobs require specific tasks or experience (long line, fire fighting, powerline) or even specific type helo experience prior to hiring. Airlines will take a guy with piston ME and train them to fly a CRJ from scratch.

So yeah, pay has something to do with the shortage but plenty of helicopter pilots with not enough experience to move up the ladder. There’s a bottleneck at the bottom right now and the only thing to move them up would be for some operators to lower their hiring requirements. Of course in turn, that’ll send their insurance premiums through the roof.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

I don’t know about the proper use of the word shortage, but I get what you’re trying to convey.

On the teacher issue:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/416971002

 

[hindsight2020]

So yeah, pay has something to do with the shortage but plenty of helicopter pilots with not enough experience to move up the ladder. There’s a bottleneck at the bottom right now and the only thing to move them up would be for some operators to lower their hiring requirements. Of course in turn, that’ll send their insurance premiums through the roof.

If a regional airline can teach a rotorhead not to kill themselves in a jungle jet, rotor companies could facilitate the transition of these turbine-deprived rotor guys, no? Honest question, I'm not versed in the dynamics of helicopter qualifications.

 

[SkyDog58]

Well Indiana has always suffered from a lack of good teachers.

 

[Velocity173]

If a regional airline can teach a rotorhead not to kill themselves in a jungle jet, rotor companies could facilitate the transition of these turbine-deprived rotor guys, no? Honest question, I'm not versed in the dynamics of helicopter qualifications.

No doubt you COULD easily teach a piston guy to fly a turbine. Some of it is an insurance requirement, for us in EMS, it’s also a certification requirement. It’s out of our hands.

I’ve heard of oil & gas considering piston guys to get hired as FOs but nothing came of it. Friend of mine said all he really did was type on the FMS and monitor the AP so it can’t be that hard.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

But there is a shortage of qualified pilots in the helicopter community in general. Even in overseas contracts that pay a decent salary.

It’s a different dynamic than in the airline community. We have plenty of 300-500hr helo CFIs out there. Post 9/11 GI Bill took care of that. Problem is, the primary jobs they’ll qualify for are piston tours or utility. There aren’t enough of those jobs right now to absorb those low hour pilots. The other problem is, most of your better paying jobs require turbine time. Our company requires a min of 2,000 hrs helo with 1,000 of those being turbine. You could have 10,000 hrs of R44 time and no chance of getting a job in EMS. Imagine if the Regionals required that kind of time? They would truly have a pilot shortage then.

Another problem is, a lot of helo jobs require specific tasks or experience (long line, fire fighting, powerline) or even specific type helo experience prior to hiring. Airlines will take a guy with piston ME and train them to fly a CRJ from scratch.

So yeah, pay has something to do with the shortage but plenty of helicopter pilots with not enough experience to move up the ladder. There’s a bottleneck at the bottom right now and the only thing to move them up would be for some operators to lower their hiring requirements. Of course in turn, that’ll send their insurance premiums through the roof.

What do you consider a descent salary?

I have several friends leaving helicopters for airplane jobs because of pay. They are not low time guys either. One is on a navy vertrep contract. He found a corporate gig in a king air 20 minutes from his house that has a starting salary that pays within 3k of what he makes on the navy gig. That’s crazy to me. With his qualifications and experience I would have expected the military contract to pay 6 figures but it doesn’t...

 

[Velocity173]

What do you consider a descent salary?

I have several friends leaving helicopters for airplane jobs because of pay. They are not low time guys either. One is on a navy vertrep contract. He found a corporate gig in a king air 20 minutes from his house that has a starting salary that pays within 3k of what he makes on the navy gig. That’s crazy to me. With his qualifications and experience I would have expected the military contract to pay 6 figures but it doesn’t...

Well, you could start in the GOM flying twins making roughly 80K for a FO and 120K for captains. They make well above that with bonuses. I’d call that decent. Got friends flying overseas contract starting at 100K and with all the extra pay, anywhere from 150-200K. I’ve heard some say they’re well over 200 but I think they’re exaggerating a bit.

That’s what this author is leaving out on his pay chart. I believe he is single engine LEO. His pay and assessment of helo jobs kinda revolves around stateside SE stuff. Whole other world in twins and overseas stuff. Even his SE EMS is off. Pilots starting salary is around 60K for a for-profit program and the independent non-profits start at around 80K. With overtime, bonuses, holiday pay, etc., you’re well into 6 figures in most cases.

 

[coloradobluesky]

FW, GOM, LEO ????

 

[Velocity173]

FW, GOM, LEO ????

Sorry. Fixed wing, Gulf of Mexico, Law Enforcement Officer.

 

[jaybee]

But there is a shortage of qualified pilots in the helicopter community in general. Even in overseas contracts that pay a decent salary.

It’s a different dynamic than in the airline community. We have plenty of 300-500hr helo CFIs out there. Post 9/11 GI Bill took care of that. Problem is, the primary jobs they’ll qualify for are piston tours or utility. There aren’t enough of those jobs right now to absorb those low hour pilots. The other problem is, most of your better paying jobs require turbine time. Our company requires a min of 2,000 hrs helo with 1,000 of those being turbine. You could have 10,000 hrs of R44 time and no chance of getting a job in EMS. Imagine if the Regionals required that kind of time? They would truly have a pilot shortage then.

Another problem is, a lot of helo jobs require specific tasks or experience (long line, fire fighting, powerline) or even specific type helo experience prior to hiring. Airlines will take a guy with piston ME and train them to fly a CRJ from scratch.

So yeah, pay has something to do with the shortage but plenty of helicopter pilots with not enough experience to move up the ladder. There’s a bottleneck at the bottom right now and the only thing to move them up would be for some operators to lower their hiring requirements. Of course in turn, that’ll send their insurance premiums through the roof.

That's what happened to my helicopter career. 1600 PIC all but 20 some in piston pounders.

I started at the airlines with 260 PIC airplane, mostly 150/152 time and the bare minimum 25 hours twin engine. A couple of months of training later I'm flying a 76 passenger 80,000 pound 14000+ thrust per engine aircraft.

Soooo.... uhhh, yea....

If a regional airline can teach a rotorhead not to kill themselves in a jungle jet, rotor companies could facilitate the transition of these turbine-deprived rotor guys, no? Honest question, I'm not versed in the dynamics of helicopter qualifications.

Hopping in a little Jet Ranger was significantly easier than adapting the airlines.

In fact, I flew an Ag Contract in a Sikorsky S55 with the Wright engine - 800 hp MTOW 7500lbs with a manual throttle so again the super special turbine helicopter time - Jet Ranger L4 derated to 317 hp and MTOW 3200lbs and governed throttle - was significantly easier.

Don't have an answer to the problem as I do understand the need for XXX hours for various reasons.

Traditionally on the helicopter side of the house when you hit 1000 PIC in piston pounders you would go to the GoM or the Ditch and got your "turbine transition" which amounted to 25 hours of training and you were put out on the line. Though once the price of oil tanked and GoM employees were being laid off en masse, you couldn't get a job in either place with less than 3000 total 1000 turbine. So in essence the market created its own problem. Until they start hiring 1000 hour wonders and giving "turbine transitions" again and/or companies start some kind of ab initio or other training pipeline program the problem will persist IMHO

 

[Velocity173]

That's what happened to my helicopter career. 1600 PIC all but 20 some in piston pounders.

I started at the airlines with 260 PIC airplane, mostly 150/152 time and the bare minimum 25 hours twin engine. A couple of months of training later I'm flying a 76 passenger 80,000 pound 14000+ thrust per engine aircraft.

Soooo.... uhhh, yea....



Hopping in a little Jet Ranger was significantly easier than adapting the airlines.

In fact, I flew an Ag Contract in a Sikorsky S55 with the Wright engine - 800 hp MTOW 7500lbs with a manual throttle so again the super special turbine helicopter time - Jet Ranger L4 derated to 317 hp and MTOW 3200lbs - was significantly easier.

Don't have an answer to the problem as I do understand the need for XXX hours for various reasons.

Traditionally on the helicopter side of the house when you hit 1000 PIC in piston pounders you would go to the GoM or the Ditch and got your "turbine transition" which amounted to 25 hours of training and you were put out on the line. Though once the price of oil tanked and GoM employees were being laid off you couldn't get a job in either place with less than 3000 total 1000 turbine. So in essence the market created its own problem. Until they start hiring 1000 hour wonders and giving "turbine transitions" again and/or companies start some kind of ab initio or other training pipeline program the problem will persist IMHO

How’s the new job going anyway? Haven’t heard any updates in awhile.

 

[mscard88]

If a regional airline can teach a rotorhead not to kill themselves in a jungle jet, rotor companies could facilitate the transition of these turbine-deprived rotor guys, no? Honest question, I'm not versed in the dynamics of helicopter qualifications.

When I was at my regional, after the Gulf War we had quite a few rotor guys get hired. Every one of them were exceptionally sharp and very competent. A waste of talent if they aren't hired somewhere, especially at rotor companies one would think.

 

[jaybee]

How’s the new job going anyway? Haven’t heard any updates in awhile.

No complaints, its been a lot of fun. Some interesting challenges like ILS to mins in Rochester in the middle of a snow storm at night - for a guy that was strictly VFR for all my helicopter time I'll remember that for a long time.

I got helicopter home sick for a minute and was offered a position with Air and Marine office of the Border Patrol but ended up not taking it.

I'm currently on the fence whether to stick it out for the flow or move laterally to an LCC like Spirit. If I stay put I can upgrade to Captain right away and I think that is smart to have some 121 PIC. On the other hand FO pay at an LCC is better than our Cap'n pay rates at PSA...

I'll have time to think about that however, as I rejoined the Air Force with the Florida Air Guard as a weather forecaster so I'll be on orders for a year and half starting soon doing the whole retraining and OJT thing. Since pay raises are supposedly coming soon™ I'll reevaluate when I get back I guess.

Hope all is well on your end.

Attached a few pics from the road one of them the aformentioned snow storm

 

[Velocity173]

No complaints, its been a lot of fun. Some interesting challenges like ILS to mins in Rochester in the middle of a snow storm at night - for a guy that was strictly VFR for all my helicopter time I'll remember that for a long time.

I got helicopter home sick for a minute and was offered a position with Air and Marine office of the Border Patrol but ended up not taking it.

I'm currently on the fence whether to stick it out for the flow or move laterally to an LCC like Spirit. If I stay put I can upgrade to Captain right away and I think that is smart to have some 121 PIC. On the other hand FO pay at an LCC is better than our Cap'n pay rates at PSA...

I'll have time to think about that however, as I rejoined the Air Force with the Florida Air Guard as a weather forecaster so I'll be on orders for a year and half starting soon doing the whole retraining and OJT thing. Since pay raises are supposedly coming soon™ I'll reevaluate when I get back I guess.

Hope all is well on your end.

Attached a few pics from the road one of them the aformentioned snow storm

Awesome. Where at with the ANG?

 

[jaybee]

I fall under the 125 FW but I drill at Camp Blanding with the 159 WF

 

[Velocity173]

I fall under the 125 FW but I drill at Camp Blanding with the 159 WF

Cool. I grew up watching the 125th flying around JAX.

 

[jordane93]

I may have missed it but how do these pilots bridge the gap and find turbine time?

 

[Velocity173]

I may have missed it but how do these pilots bridge the gap and find turbine time?

Like Jay said above, companies like PHI in the GoM will sometimes offer a turbine transition to well qualified piston guys. They'll go on to B206s or B407s. Not sure if they have Astars. Problem is, GoM pilot jobs have dried up and a lot come from recommendations from those within the company. Another route is tours. I work with a couple of guys who did the Sevierville TN B206 tours to build the turbine hours to get hired. They usually fly quite regularly up there. Work with another guy who had the 1,000 hr turbine requirement but yet had just under 2,000 total hours. He Flew Ag R44s to get him over the hurtle. Never understood the reasoning behind the turbine requirement. 1,000 hrs turbine but yet only 100 hrs NVG (very important).