RudyP
Cleared for Takeoff
Are you 6'6" Kent?
Headroom bonanza v Saratoga/Cherokee
- Thread starter Ben2k9
- Start date
Are you 6'6" Kent?
Unit74
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2014
- Messages
- 6,992
- Display Name
Display name:
Unit74
My wife who is 5'4 sits there every time we fly. There is maybe 8" above her head. Someone has to smack the shhoot outa those kids when my AP is working overtime to keep us S & L.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 9,486
- Display Name
Display name:
Pilawt
My grandmother and my son, who was 17 and about 5'9" at the time, in the back of a Saratoga ...
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, but I'm close... Distribution of height between torso and legs matters as much, so I don't think 6'6" is automatically disqualifying for a Malibu. As with most things, you've gotta try it on for yourself to see if it fits. (Go to the fitting room at your local airport...
)I found the gyrations to get in a bit of a challenge. Something like playing Twister.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
If your a tall person in a Bo/Baron, even if there is enough vertical room for your head, the side of your headset is still going to be bouncing off the side window where it curves up to meet the top.
Beeches are tight like that.
Beeches are tight like that.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
It depends.
The biggest challenge with the PA46 is into the cockpit. Large people tall or wide, have the most trouble that. Once you get in, it’s not too bad, but if you make a forced landing and the plane catches fire, good luck getting out....
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
That’s a good question.
I’m 5’11” and I fit just fine, BUT, if I wear my David Clark’s, the top of the headset rubs on the headliner. I don’t like to fly the airplane without my Clarity Aloft headset.
RussR
En-Route
Nuts - I flew a PA-32 today, and briefly sat in the back seat based on this thread. I was in a bit of a hurry, though, and thought "I'll get a picture when I get back", and of course forgot.
I could not sit up straight (this was without a headset). I am 6'2". I do not have unusual torso/leg lengths.
I will be flying this airplane again on Sunday. I will try to remember to get a pic!
I wonder if it is dependent on model year? This one is a 2006.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes! That is *exactly* what happens to me.
Yeah. I sat in the front of a TBM yesterday. It's a little bigger than the PA46 once you're in I think, but it wasn't all that easy to get in. I'd have to have to be the guy who flies with a full load of pax and then has to squeeze between them on the way up front after closing the door...
Grum.Man
En-Route
A TBM is no better. A little more vertical height but just as narrow between the seats.
RussR
En-Route
Okay, this is me sitting in the back seat of a 2006 PA-32R-301T (Saratoga II TC). I am 6'2" and reasonably normal proportions.
The first picture is the with the seat in the "full, upright position" and the second is with it reclined one notch (I didn't do 2 notches since that is really leaned back).
Headroom is, clearly, not great. I do wonder if this is dependent on model year/interior.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
I have too. But it's not a space I'd want to spend much time in.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
Yes! That is *exactly* what happens to me.
Yeah. I sat in the front of a TBM yesterday. It's a little bigger than the PA46 once you're in I think, but it wasn't all that easy to get in. I'd have to have to be the guy who flies with a full load of pax and then has to squeeze between them on the way up front after closing the door...
+1 on the Bo.
The TBM is somewhat more accommodating than the PA46 in the left front seat, but still shoulder rubbing. However, the optional pilot door makes it sooooo much easier to get in and out (I think that second door is standard from the 900 on?)
hindsight2020
Final Approach
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 7,000
- Display Name
Display name:
hindsight2020
No, the cabin dimensions are not dependent on year. They are indeed 35 inches of headroom in the third row, which clearly is not sufficient for six footers of most torso heights. The second and first rows have an extra inch of headroom according to the book. To me it feels like the difference is larger than that but oh well. The pilot row actually may have more in so far as it has vertically adjustable seating. Pax row seats do not have such capability. I suppose you may lose half an inch here and there depending on the kind of cushion thickness on the late model Pipers compared to the vintage Sixes, but I have no way of corroborating that without taking a tape to either sample.
The wife and I found a Apache/Geronimo on the field this weekend, and though we didn't have a chance to sit in it, we did get close enough to get a gander at the interior. Good God that thing has elbow and headroom for days. If it wasn't so damn slow (same speed as my Arrow on double the gas) I'd just throw caution into the wind and get one LOL. The wife was impressed. Fortunately we are not a tall family, so cheap GA fits us without problem. I empathize with the big and tall folks on this hobby. Very limiting indeed.
Hank Gibson
Pre-Flight
Turbo Saratoga will give you 165-170 knots and plenty of room. I've flown with several folks in both the Bonanza and the Saratoga. You will fit much better in the 'Toga and have more elbow room. Tall people get cramped in the front seat of a Bonanza.
I've seen plenty of 6'3 guys fit in a PA46 and there is a seat extension STC (the seat reclines!). Go for the '80s model Malibu with the Continental engine. 185-190 knots at 16.5 GPH, 120 gallons, tons of range and lots of useful load. Lots of legroom too. You can get a good one for around $300k.
The Cirrus will fit you no problem. Useful load becomes an issue as your kids start getting older. Plus, the cheapest 5 seat Cirrus is still going to run around $400k.
The 210 will fit you too, no problem. Back row of seats are a little bit of a tight fit though.
I've seen plenty of 6'3 guys fit in a PA46 and there is a seat extension STC (the seat reclines!). Go for the '80s model Malibu with the Continental engine. 185-190 knots at 16.5 GPH, 120 gallons, tons of range and lots of useful load. Lots of legroom too. You can get a good one for around $300k.
The Cirrus will fit you no problem. Useful load becomes an issue as your kids start getting older. Plus, the cheapest 5 seat Cirrus is still going to run around $400k.
The 210 will fit you too, no problem. Back row of seats are a little bit of a tight fit though.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Agree on the comfort, but I’ve never seen 170 ktas in a Turbo Saratoga.
Haven’t seen anything close to 170 in an A36 either FWIW.
With the exception of the PA46, the 6 seat piston singles are not fast airplanes.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
true.....there needs to be a turbo to see speeds greater than 165 kts true. And a turbo will get true airspeeds above 185 kts easily at the higher altitudes. I regularly see (in the V35A TC) 195 kts "true" add in winds and things can get sporty.
RussR
En-Route
You have to run it at high-power cruise, 80% or so (which is a POH-approved value at least in the Saratoga II TC), and it sucks down the fuel (20 gph), but it'll do 170. Helps to be lightweight of course. Altitude dependent too.
More commonly, I see 155-160 at about 70% power.
RussR
En-Route
true.....there needs to be a turbo to see speeds greater than 165 kts true. And a turbo will get true airspeeds above 185 kts easily at the higher altitudes. I regularly see (in the V35A TC) 195 kts "true" add in winds and things can get sporty.
True - a client of mine with a V35B with aftermarket turbonormalizer regularly files FL190 at 190 ktas.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
there you have it.....
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Vtails are faster than A36s. I was referring to the A36. They are not fast airplanes.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
It's "so damn slow" BECAUSE it's got "elbow and headroom for days". It's a big fat fuselage that gets you the room, and the drag.
A couple of years ago, I picked up the Bo after the annual. On the flight home I thought 'dang, I must have grown two inches in the last 3 weeks'.
It turns out that you can mount the middle row seats in pilot and copilot positions, and that's exactly what someone in the shop had done. They actually have taller frames, it's just that they don't mount on top of the spar.
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2005
- Messages
- 9,486
- Display Name
Display name:
Pilawt
That, and that big thick ol' Super Cub wing, which makes the Apache such a friendly airplane to fly.
Hank Gibson
Pre-Flight
I should have prefaced that I fly folks around who have lots of money and aren't as concerned with fuel cost as they are in getting places. 170 KTAS in a Turbo Saratoga is easily accomplished at 20 GPH. I have seen 165-170 in an A36 around 10,000 feet, normally aspirated, many times. 16-17 GPH.
Those all give you plenty of speed, as well as the PA46. The Turbo 210 gives you a good amount of speed too.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
I fly poor people......
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
Exactly. I am just over 6' 4", about 235 lbs, long in torso compared to some others my height. That cabin is one of the reasons I have not convinced myself to "upgrade" from the Aztec. I own and drive pick-up trucks for exactly the same reasons - tough, versatile, roomy and comfortable...and as with the Aztec, I am more than willing to accept the lack of fuel efficiency of the pick-ups compared to one of those slippery, quicker, jelly-bean shaped cars.
Another reason I chose the Aztec as a first twin. Low stall speeds (Vso = 55 kts @ 5200 lb gross), low Vmc, about as uneventful as you can get on a single engine in a piston twin, handles ice like no other piston twin, and I fly it into places that would risk breaking some other planes. I didn't think I would keep it this long but it's just such a fantastic all-around personal airplane, especially in the almost endless winters we get out here in the mountains where I live, the lack of all out speed is a more than acceptable trade-off for me. Just like my pick-up truck.
I notice even @Ted DuPuis occasionally waxes nostalgic about the Aztec, when he's not setting new speed records in the Mitsubishi.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
Five years ago a friend of mine traded his rocket-ship Tornado Alley equipped IO-550 modified V35 for a stock B36TC, as his growing family needed more space. He says the '36 is a fine plane and performs well at altitude, but he still misses that V-tail. He has a standing "first-right" to buy it back from the friend he sold it to, but I doubt the current owner is going to part with it any time soon.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
power at altitude is addictive......I'd love me one of those TN I0-550's.....mine is a factory turbo and it screams.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2015
- Messages
- 9,306
- Display Name
Display name:
Aztec Flyer
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
yup.....it has nice features, like factory O2....but it isn't as efficient as the TN. I burn 1.5 gph more...but it also was purchased at a discount too.The factory turbo-charged V35s were the original (and affordable) SR22T, non.