has anyone heard of a MOA collision?

Agreed, I always tell people that I totally understand when they transit the MOA - I do it in my Bonanza all the time. I just hope people contact the controlling agency to pass words to the military guys so they can be on the look-out. I don't mind people transiting at all - in some places there's no choice. I just get upset when people don't talk or communicate intentions when transiting an active MOA/W-area.
 
Agreed, I always tell people that I totally understand when they transit the MOA - I do it in my Bonanza all the time. I just hope people contact the controlling agency to pass words to the military guys so they can be on the look-out. I don't mind people transiting at all - in some places there's no choice. I just get upset when people don't talk or communicate intentions when transiting an active MOA/W-area.

Thank you for letting us fly in OUR national Airspace System...;)...:redface:

The easiest way for the military to address this issue is for them to get dedicated frequencies and do a mini atis announcment... Something like..

" : attention airman. MOA Avon Park is hot as of 1300z until 1500z, activity is expected in the SE quadrant:"..... Easy Pleasy...:idea:
 
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Agreed, I always tell people that I totally understand when they transit the MOA - I do it in my Bonanza all the time. I just hope people contact the controlling agency to pass words to the military guys so they can be on the look-out. I don't mind people transiting at all - in some places there's no choice. I just get upset when people don't talk or communicate intentions when transiting an active MOA/W-area.

The controlling agency may not be in contact with the military guys.
 
The controlling agency may not be in contact with the military guys.

Maybe, but the controlling facility has methods for direct contact with participating aircraft.

In ZAU we monitored a UHF frequency that the MOA/ATCAA participants used while flying the SUA. If a non-participating aircraft penetrated (giggity) the airspace, we had a quick way to call the participating aircraft direct on that frequency.
 
Maybe, but the controlling facility has methods for direct contact with participating aircraft.

In ZAU we monitored a UHF frequency that the MOA/ATCAA participants used while flying the SUA. If a non-participating aircraft penetrated (giggity) the airspace, we had a quick way to call the participating aircraft direct on that frequency.

How did you address aircraft that you hadn't been in contact with? How did a non-participating aircraft come to be in an ATCAA?
 
Thank you for letting us fly in OUR national Airpspsce System...;)...:redface:

The easiest way for the military to address this issue is for them to get dedicated frequencies and do a mini atis announcment... Something like..

" : attention airman. MOA Avon Park is hot as of 1300z until 1500z, activity is expected in the SE quadrant:"..... Easy Pleasy...:idea:

Since you're too lazy to call the controlling agency to find out the current status of a MOA you're transiting, you expect the military aircraft, which may not even have a vhf radio, to keep you informed. Gotcha. Good luck with that.
 
Since you're too lazy to call the controlling agency to find out the current status of a MOA you're transiting, you expect the military aircraft, which may not even have a vhf radio, to keep you informed. Gotcha. Good luck with that.

99% of the time I am using Flight following and on several occasions I have had them tell me it is NOT hot... Only to get to witness some fast movers out playing..... Remember.. I am not required to contact ANYONE to pass through a MOA..;):idea:..

Ps... I am far from lazy...:nono:
 
99% of the time I am using Flight following and on several occasions I have had them tell me it is NOT hot... Only to get to witness some fast movers out playing..... Remember.. I am not required to contact ANYONE to pass through a MOA..;):idea:..

Ps... I am far from lazy...:nono:

Then your beef should be with the entity that told you the MOA was cold. Since you're so concerned with requirements, mil aircraft are not required to talk to civil aircraft even if they do have a vhf radio. It's ridiculous to think that they should be making calls in the blind so that lazy pilots don't have to contact ATC who should know what's going on in the airspace they monitor.
 
Then your beef should be with the entity that told you the MOA was cold. Since you're so concerned with requirements, mil aircraft are not required to talk to civil aircraft even if they do have a vhf radio. It's ridiculous to think that they should be making calls in the blind so that lazy pilots don't have to contact ATC who should know what's going on in the airspace they monitor.

Sir........ I NEVER said the participating aircraft contact me.... I suggested a simple
loop recording" on a freq kinda like a ATIS loop would possibly work.. and cost just a few bucks....


And... I don't have a beef with anyone.. it is my airspace as much as it is theirs...
 
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Seems like we're going back to the wondering why civilians can't get a better picture of what's going on in a MOA argument again. Here are the problems with real time activity updates for civilians.

First, like I keep saying, MOA times don't necessarily reflect what's posted on a sectional. At NBC it's blocked for 2 days per month and 4 hrs per day. It's never utilized that much but check NOTAMs.

Civilians aren't going to get access to the flight plans going into the MOA. At NBC the MOA controller gets an Air Tasking Order so you sure aren't going to get access to that. Wouldn't do a nonparticipating pilot any good anyway because the ATO was constantly in flux. By the time the MOA controller gets word that the MOA is closing early, it's too late for that information to be of value to FSS to transmit to nonparticipating aircraft.

If your VFR just plan through it and find out if it's hot when you approach the boundary. ATC may or may not be talking to the aircraft in there. Usually doesn't matter anyway because a lot of controllers don't want to deal with the liability of working a VFR with FF through a MOA. I knew guys who worked MOA control and actually had radar contact and control of participating aircraft and still wouldn't work a VFR through the airspace. Each controller is different when it comes to taking on that responsibility.

I don't know how many times I saw GA IFR guys show up at the MOA border not knowing it was active. Generally they're not getting through. I've seen an approach controller try and slip a Mooney or Bonanza through NBC MOA once when the schedule showed like a 15 minute gap in activity. While the aircraft was in the middle of the MOA the next "players" showed up early. Now the approach controller is scrambling to get the aircraft out and MOA control is asking "Magic 55 can you restrict your activity to at or below 5,000?" That's not the way things should go. That's why it's just easier and safer to just keep IFRs clear.

Like I said, never once saw a participating aircraft harass a nonparticipant. I think a lot of GA guys think they are being "thumped" by a military aircraft when in fact they're just going about their business. I had some foreign dude once who was complaining about an F-18 that circled by him. "what he doing? He coming after me!" No, he was just popping off the VR route looking for his clearance back to the air station.

So, when it comes down to it, it's about coexisting in a finite amount of airspace. You can't do everything in a restricted area. It's usually too small. Can't simulate over land stuff in a over water W area. Gotta have MOAs for that. Just keep your head in a swivel and realize the airspace is there for a reason and the training is done for a reason.
 
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I don't know how many times I saw GA IFR guys show up at the MOA border not knowing it was active. Generally they're not getting through. I've seen an approach controller try and slip a Mooney or Bonanza through NBC MOA once when the schedule showed like a 15 minute gap in activity. While the aircraft was in the middle of the MOA the next "players" showed up early. Now the approach controller is scrambling to get the aircraft out and MOA control is asking "Magic 55 can you restrict your activity to at or below 5,000?" That's not the way things should go. That's why it's just easier and safer to just keep IFRs clear.

No reason to scramble to get an IFR aircraft out of a cold MOA.
 
No reason to scramble to get an IFR aircraft out of a cold MOA.

Correct. The case I brought up is where the two controllers (MOA & approach) tried to work an IFR GA through during a gap in activity. The MOA was still hot but they weren't expecting anything for quite some time. They tried to work him through and the next flight showed up early. This was common with the ATO. They might have a 4 hr block for activity but the actual times when aircraft showed up didn't always match the ATO.
 
Correct. The case I brought up is where the two controllers (MOA & approach) tried to work an IFR GA through during a gap in activity. The MOA was still hot but they weren't expecting anything for quite some time. They tried to work him through and the next flight showed up early. This was common with the ATO. They might have a 4 hr block for activity but the actual times when aircraft showed up didn't always match the ATO.

So the MOA is hot. If procedures exist for working nonparticipating aircraft through the MOA I still see no reason to scramble, just apply the established procedures. If no such procedures exist ATC screwed up when they cleared an IFR aircraft through the MOA, even if no military aircraft ever show up.
 
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VFR aircraft not on FF fly right through the MOA in the middle of a multimillion dollar Red Flag exercise with 70 plus aircraft getting a Knock it off call. Or disrupts a critical test developing new capabilities on an aircraft for the warfighter.

When did the Air Force start flying Red Flag in MOA's? That seems crazy.
 
So the MOA is hot. If procedures exist for working nonparticipating aircraft through the MOA I still see no reason to scramble, just apply the established procedures. If no such procedures exist ATC screwed up when they cleared an IFR aircraft the MOA, even if no military aircraft ever show up.

The only procedures that existed were not to have IFR aircraft go through during the blocked off times because you truly don't know the actual time aircraft will be arriving. In this case they tried to help a guy out by letting him through the MOA based on what the ATO said. Fortunately they were able to get him clear before the inbound attacking aircraft were a factor. If they were to spin the inbound aircraft because of an IFR intruder, it would not have been good. As far as I know I don't believe we had an LOA with the using agency authorizing nonparticipanting aircraft in the same airspace as participating. It's been almost 20 yrs so things might have changed.

The MOA controller (in our case) wasn't a range controller. He didn't have the power to call the MOA cold based on the ATO. The cold call came from the air group or MAG-31. Usually that would only happen towards the end of the excercise when all the squadron reps would confirm they're done for the day. That might save the average civilian pilot 10 mins from the scheduled times on the NOTAM.
 
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Sir........ I NEVER said the participating aircraft contact me.... I suggested a simple
loop recording" on a freq kinda like a ATIS loop would possibly work.. and cost just a few bucks....


And... I don't have a beef with anyone.. it is my airspace as much as it is theirs...

And just how simple and inexpensive would an "automated' broadcast of irregular activity in multiple MOAs be? How would 12 F-15s and 16s doing multi ship air combat tactics training be differentiated from a single C-130 doing advance handling maneuvers be described by an "automated" recording? Get real. Your best bet has always been to contact the controlling agency and get a real time update as to the status of a MOA instead of hoping to be hand fed the information from a recording.
 
And just how simple and inexpensive would an "automated' broadcast of irregular activity in multiple MOAs be? How would 12 F-15s and 16s doing multi ship air combat tactics training be differentiated from a single C-130 doing advance handling maneuvers be described by an "automated" recording? Get real. Your best bet has always been to contact the controlling agency and get a real time update as to the status of a MOA instead of hoping to be hand fed the information from a recording.

Actually, I think 801's idea of an automated special use airspace information service (ASUAIS) is pretty awesome.

In my particular area, MIA Center and JAX Center are the controlling agencies. Those particular sectors are SATURATED with air carrier traffic departing/arriving MCO and points south. Getting a word in edgewise even when you're IFR is a challenge, let alone VFR, and when you do check on the status, the controllers sound exasperated because they've answered the same question 100 times that day already.

A full WX brief from DUAT incudes SUA, but as said above, the hot/cold times often bear no relation to reality. I'm not sure I would even trust L-M FSS to give me the straight story.

A simple digital device, accessed by the controlling agency, similar to a D-ATIS and broadcast on a VHF freq would be extremely cost effective. You could echo the same information via ADS-B.

In less time than it took me to type this post, whoever runs the airspace sends this to the unit:

"This is Lake Marion SUA information Alpha, time 1300 Zulu. The following Lake Marion military operating areas are active: Lake Placid North, Lake Placid West, Lake Placid East. VFR aircraft transiting these MOAs should exercise caution for high speed military aircraft activity. The following adjacent restricted areas are also active: R-2901 alpha, bravo and november. SUA status update at 1500 Zulu. For more information, contact Miami Center on 123.45"

or, conversely:

"This is Lake Marion SUA information bravo, time 1500 Zulu. All Lake Marion MOA areas are inactive. All R-2901 areas are inactive and cold. No change of status is anticipated until 1300 Zulu January 15th, 2014. For more information, contact Miami Center on 123.45".

Think of A) how many more pilots would get this information because they don't want to hassle with ATC (we all know they're out there), and b) how much this would decrease ATC workload/freq congestion.

This idea is full of win.

Richman
 
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Usage of MOAs by military aircraft is highly dynamic. I ran an air to ground and electronic warfare range for a year and the scheduling was similar. Each user contracts for dates and times long in advance but the airspace is available on a bootleg basis by unscheduled traffic whenever scheduled traffic is not using it. Scheduled traffic often shows up late, early, or not at all for a variety of reasons. I can't understand how you would update the status automatically by a recording in real time, when the status may be different from minute to minute. If controllers are too task saturated to answer questions of aircraft in their airspace, maybe we need more controllers.
 
Usage of MOAs by military aircraft is highly dynamic. I ran an air to ground and electronic warfare range for a year and the scheduling was similar. Each user contracts for dates and times long in advance but the airspace is available on a bootleg basis by unscheduled traffic whenever scheduled traffic is not using it. Scheduled traffic often shows up late, early, or not at all for a variety of reasons. I can't understand how you would update the status automatically by a recording in real time, when the status may be different from minute to minute. If controllers are too task saturated to answer questions of aircraft in their airspace, maybe we need more controllers.

Yes, this. There are just too many changes to the schedule. No way you could possibly run some recording with up to date info.

It's simple, check your NOTAMs for the hours. Check in with the controlling agency and see what's really going on.
 
How did you address aircraft that you hadn't been in contact with? How did a non-participating aircraft come to be in an ATCAA?

Every participating aircraft that flew into our SUA was required to have an ATC clearance to do so. Simple landline call to relay clearances if we felt no need to have to talk directly to the aircraft (like if the military remained on APCH frequency). YMMV.

Non-participating aircraft are kept clear of ATCAA/MOA airspace, unless participating aircraft have vacated and we can find a way to "sneak" them thru. Doesn't happen often though.
 
Yes, this. There are just too many changes to the schedule. No way you could possibly run some recording with up to date info.

It's simple, check your NOTAMs for the hours. Check in with the controlling agency and see what's really going on.

Horsecrap....

Every tower in the country changes the ATIS hourly,,, and it ain't that big a deal.... :nonod::no: :confused:
 
Every participating aircraft that flew into our SUA was required to have an ATC clearance to do so. Simple landline call to relay clearances if we felt no need to have to talk directly to the aircraft (like if the military remained on APCH frequency). YMMV.

Required by what?

Non-participating aircraft are kept clear of ATCAA/MOA airspace, unless participating aircraft have vacated and we can find a way to "sneak" them thru. Doesn't happen often though.

Non-participating aircraft are kept clear of ATCAAs. Non-participating VFR aircraft are not kept clear of MOAs.
 
Required by what?

Good question. I don't know. Maybe an LOA? We had one with the participating fighter/refueling squadrons. I know if a military aircraft started flying the airspace without ATC clearance, we had a telephone conversation with their squadron commander. Again, YMMV.

Non-participating aircraft are kept clear of ATCAAs. Non-participating VFR aircraft are not kept clear of MOAs.

Correct. Non-participating IFR aircraft are kept clear of all SUA (including I think warning areas). ATC can (and most of us do) suggest headings to aide non-participating VFR aircraft in keeping clear.
 
Horsecrap....

Every tower in the country changes the ATIS hourly,,, and it ain't that big a deal.... :nonod::no: :confused:

You're comparing an ATIS that's updated hourly with routine information to making a recording that would be changing by the minute. A recording would be useless to anyone transiting through an MOA. Here's what it would sound like:

"Marine Beaufort special use airspace advisory, time 1000 Zulu. Beaufort MOAs 1, 2 & 3 are currently active until 1200 Zulu, contact Beaufort MOA control on 123.7 for further information."

That broadcast would be a complete waste of time. All it would be doing is broadcasting information that you would automatically know if you checked the NOTAMs like you're required to do. Also, any realtime activity would be a mess trying to broadcast because the aircraft are all over the place. It would be like trying to describe to someone bees flying around their head. That's why when you talk to the controlling agency they say something like "I'm showing multiple targets in your area moving at a high rate of speed and rapidly changing altitude." Then they'll terminate you or if it's a rather bold controller, they'll attempt to provide FF even though they may not be talking to the military aircraft.
 
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It might not be so tough to make some sort of broadcast over neighboring VOR's, though the maintenance for those broadcast would be a royal PITA. Plus, I'm not sure if that would be a viable solution if/when they get decommissioned. :wink2:
 
Good question. I don't know. Maybe an LOA? We had one with the participating fighter/refueling squadrons. I know if a military aircraft started flying the airspace without ATC clearance, we had a telephone conversation with their squadron commander. Again, YMMV.

Dubious
 
It might not be so tough to make some sort of broadcast over neighboring VOR's, though the maintenance for those broadcast would be a royal PITA. Plus, I'm not sure if that would be a viable solution if/when they get decommissioned. :wink2:

Yeah but like I said that broadcast would simply be repeating what's in the NOTAM. Any real position reports on participating aircraft would be impossible.

As far as airspace closing early, I've talked to other current controller friends and they do it just like we did. If the airspace becomes open for IFR traffic, you relay it up stream to other controllers. They look at their boards and start rerouting aircraft through. That is the quickest most up to date way of handling airspace changes. Also, I've always had time to answer an aircraft query on MOA status. It's takes all of 5 secs.

All we need is the govt to fund ADS-B in/out for both military and civilian aircraft and it'll take care of the problem. :)
 
Yeah but like I said that broadcast would simply be repeating what's in the NOTAM. Any real position reports on participating aircraft would be impossible.

As far as airspace closing early, I've talked to other current controller friends and they do it just like we did. If the airspace becomes open for IFR traffic, you relay it up stream to other controllers. They look at their boards and start rerouting aircraft through. That is the quickest most up to date way of handling airspace changes. Also, I've always had time to answer an aircraft query on MOA status. It's takes all of 5 secs.

All we need is the govt to fund ADS-B in/out for both military and civilian aircraft and it'll take care of the problem. :)

Exactly. I still think a call to the controlling facility is the easiest and most accurate way to find out what's going on.

As for your last sentence, :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Exactly. I still think a call to the controlling facility is the easiest and most accurate way to find out what's going on.

I have found for some areas that the 'controlling facility' doesn't actually know what is going on, e.g. in the case of the PAX R-area complex. The sectional lists 'Washington Center' when PAX approach is the actual facility that provides information or clearance to proceed through the R-area.

Dealing with SUA would certainly be easier if the frequency to call up the controlling agency was listed right on the chart.
 
Horsecrap....

Every tower in the country changes the ATIS hourly,,, and it ain't that big a deal.... :nonod::no: :confused:

I do wish we could take our civilian brothers flying sometimes, just for the "see how the other half lives" side of the coin.......unfortunately, I have no back seat, and Uncle Sam doesn't fund it. But if I could, you would see how things in various SUA's operate from our perspective. There is normally a hard schedule, which is FOUO, and accessible only by participating mil squadrons (or at least those who use the range in question), and the range control folks. That schedule, could in theory, be broadcast in a form similar to an ATIS. I don't know what sort of security issues would be in question there, if any, but all other things being equal, that could happen. Unfortunately, that schedule changes 100 times a day, dependent on cancellations (weather, maintenance, others), we often don't have the gas for the full range time, or maybe something else happens like an emergency that cancels the entire event. In our local bombing range for example, you can pretty much just show up, find out who is working, and figure out a way to work yourself in regardless of whether you are scheduled or not. Maybe it is a bad weather day, and everyone has cancelled who was scheduled, but hard a** fighter pilot Bob and his flight decide to go fly anyway and suddenly have open ranges everywhere. Nobody is going to tell them they can't enter. So these are a couple examples of how there could easily be less usage or more usage than the published schedule depicts, all minute by minute changes. I might fly down to Navy dare, deconflict with some other guys down there, they leave, and I just need to get a quick strafe or two for currency and now I'm gone too. It is just super dynamic and difficult to make an accurate automated recording for. I'd guess if that were attempted, it would end up being overly restrictive, rather than helpful. Either way, just talk to the controller, and they will tell you, real time, if the range is hot. They can also tell you who they are expecting, when, and if they have heard from them yet. All useful, accurate information that will enable you to transit safely with high situational awareness. If you had UHF, you could come up on the common freq, but most likely you can't, so the next best bet is talking to the crazy old man in the control room who would absolutely love to talk to you.

edit: some of the above relates to working in and around R areas, since you and I technically have no requirement to talk to anyone in a MOA. Typically, we will activate MOA's with center, and at that point, center or approach (whoever manages the airspace) will know real time what the deal is. I don't know if this is Navy specific, but we are weird and treat MOA's like actual airspace and "activate" them, as if it were a requirement and we need a clearance to enter (which is funny because none of us, mil or civilian technically do).
 
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I have found for some areas that the 'controlling facility' doesn't actually know what is going on, e.g. in the case of the PAX R-area complex. The sectional lists 'Washington Center' when PAX approach is the actual facility that provides information or clearance to proceed through the R-area.

Dealing with SUA would certainly be easier if the frequency to call up the controlling agency was listed right on the chart.

Unfortunately, the sectionals can be somewhat out of date. I suspect you shouldn't have a problem finding out the status of SUA if you call the outdated frequency.
 
so the next best bet is talking to the crazy old man in the control room who would absolutely love to talk to you.

Hey! I resemble that remark! And I ain't that old! (I think...). :D

Your comments about activating airspace is correct, at least in the Chicago area. Some of our SUA abuts a major ORD and MDW arrival corridor, so we can't just let the fighter dogs go in and play "war." :goofy:
 
You guys know how something like D-ATIS works, right?

Type in your message, and the machine reads it until you change it, all in the time it took to text your order to Dominos.

I mean seriously, it takes all of 5 (ok, maybe 15) seconds to update. Is the MOA active, or not? Is the restricted area hot, or not? We're not talking about keeping track of every bee buzzing around the hive. We're talking about hot or cold. If it's hot, I can inquire further, deviate, talk to ATC or take precaution. If it's cold, I go on my merry way without bothering anyone.

"There are just too many changes to the schedule. No way you could possibly run some recording with up to date info. It's simple, check your NOTAMs for the hours. Check in with the controlling agency and see what's really going on."

Soooo, let me get this straight: There are too many changes to put on a recording, yet you want me to depend on the NOTAM system, which is notoriously slow, and was included on a briefing I may have gotten 1 or 2 hours in the past.

Yah, sure.

Richman
 
The controlling agency may not be in contact with the military guys.


That happens sometimes, but they always know what working freq's we're on. I'd say in my career I've been on a freq that ATC knows about or assigned 90% of the time.
 
Thank you for letting us fly in OUR national Airspace System...;)...:redface:

The easiest way for the military to address this issue is for them to get dedicated frequencies and do a mini atis announcment... Something like..

" : attention airman. MOA Avon Park is hot as of 1300z until 1500z, activity is expected in the SE quadrant:"..... Easy Pleasy...:idea:

So... where did I say anything about 'letting you fly'? I just said it doesn't bother me and I do it. Someone clearly has a bone to pick here....

How often would you request that we do these mini-atis announcements? I know I always have plenty of extra time and radios. For instance today we had 4 Eagles vs 8 F16's in a MOA and W-area combined. In our 30 min fight I was anywhere from 42k' at 1.4 mach to 4,000' and 600 KIAS, the longest time I flew straight and level was about 45" in that whole time.
 
So... where did I say anything about 'letting you fly'? I just said it doesn't bother me and I do it. Someone clearly has a bone to pick here....

How often would you request that we do these mini-atis announcements? I know I always have plenty of extra time and radios. For instance today we had 4 Eagles vs 8 F16's in a MOA and W-area combined. In our 30 min fight I was anywhere from 42k' at 1.4 mach to 4,000' and 600 KIAS, the longest time I flew straight and level was about 45" in that whole time.

My point was just......... MOA..... is it HOT... Or NOT ????

I don't give a damn about your flight profile....:no:...:nonod:
 
You guys know how something like D-ATIS works, right?

Type in your message, and the machine reads it until you change it, all in the time it took to text your order to Dominos.

I mean seriously, it takes all of 5 (ok, maybe 15) seconds to update. Is the MOA active, or not? Is the restricted area hot, or not? We're not talking about keeping track of every bee buzzing around the hive. We're talking about hot or cold. If it's hot, I can inquire further, deviate, talk to ATC or take precaution. If it's cold, I go on my merry way without bothering anyone.

"There are just too many changes to the schedule. No way you could possibly run some recording with up to date info. It's simple, check your NOTAMs for the hours. Check in with the controlling agency and see what's really going on."

Soooo, let me get this straight: There are too many changes to put on a recording, yet you want me to depend on the NOTAM system, which is notoriously slow, and was included on a briefing I may have gotten 1 or 2 hours in the past.

Yah, sure.

Richman

Why would you expect the information on this ATIS to be any more accurate than that on the NOTAM system? Where are you going to put this ATIS?
 
That happens sometimes, but they always know what working freq's we're on. I'd say in my career I've been on a freq that ATC knows about or assigned 90% of the time.

I was ATC. Thirty years. Worked airspace with MOAs, ATCAAs, and Restricted Areas. Never knew what working freqs the aircraft were on.
 
I was ATC. Thirty years. Worked airspace with MOAs, ATCAAs, and Restricted Areas. Never knew what working freqs the aircraft were on.

Were you the controlling facility? At ZAU (11 years there) we were the controlling facility for our SE SUA (three MOA one ATCAA). We knew when it was planned to go active, we activated it, we cleared military into the airspace, and had a UHF to talk to them while inside the airspace. If they wanted to depart IFR, we cleared them out of the airspace.

I can't speak for who controls the MOA's and R-areas along GRB, but I can't imagine things being that much different.
 
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