Has Anyone Attended These WINGS Seminars?

[kimberlyanne546]

Hello everyone,

I keep getting invited - from the FAA and from AOPA - to "local" WINGS seminars.

Problem is, they are all about 1-2 hours' drive (each way) since they are on weeknights in rush hour traffic.

Here is a list of what is coming up - have any of you attended these? Are they the same or different from area to area, or do they follow a set of slides so that all of us across the USA experience the same thing?

I want to get out there and do pilot stuff, but I can't go to all of them. Which ones do you suggest?

(Obviously I will go to the tailwheel one though)


------------------------------------------

Flight Safety through tailwheel training"
Topic: Tailwheel Flying, the transition process, and the benefits how it improves your all around flying and ADM.

Areas covered:
1. Physical differences between tricycle gear and tailwheel aircraft and how that relates to the differences in handling the two types
2. How understanding torque becomes critical in tailwheel take-offs and landings
3. The importance of coordinated flight
4. Crosswind landings and take-offs
5. Soft field landings and take-offs
6. Wheel landings
7. How the additional skills and awareness learned in tailwheel flying transfer to tricycle gear flying

-------------------------------------

Say Again? Radio Communication Done Right

Description:
Stymied by radio chatter every time you fly? Does everybody else get "cleared direct" and you don't? The Air Safety Institute digs deeper into radio communication in this information-packed seminar. Hear the other side of the story from air traffic controllers. Find out how to increase your margin of safety through effective communication with ATC. Don't miss this informative safety seminar designed to improve your communication skills and decrease your workload as a pilot.

----------------------------------------------

Airspace and Sectional Charts Made Easy!

Topic: How to interpret Sectionals and understand Airspace and its Regulations clearly.


Brief Description:
We'll take a flight from the Sierra Nevada mountains to Palo Alto exploring the airspace and regulations from the surface to outer space! Another flight will take us from Palo Alto to Compton. Whether you are a Student Pilot or a 25,000 hour plus retired Captain, this presentation will give you the tools to fly safely in our national airspace system. Please bring a SFO Sectional and terminal Area Chart (does not have to be current). We'll have a limited number of charts to use if you do not have one.

--------------------------------------

Title: NorCal TRACON sharing safe VFR flying practices in the Bay Area
Topic: Tim Wilson of Northern California TRACON (NCT) presents to local pilots


Brief Description: Tim Wilson is presenting an insight of the responsibilities and operation of the Northern California TRACON (NCT). Followed by an presentation with suggestions and best practices for VFR flying in the Bay area. After the presentation Tim will be available to Q&A's form the audience.

Additional Seminar Information & Acknowledgement of Industry Sponsor(s): This presentation is given by Tim Wilson who joined the FAA in September 1986, working at Oakland Center until 1988 then at San Carlos tower before moving to Monterey TRACON in January 1993. In 2002 Tim moved to Sacramento when Monterey approach was consolidated with Northern California TRACON. Tim works in area A covering Monterey airspace, San Jose arrivals and departures, Reid Hillview, Moffett, and Palo Alto airports. Additionally Tim works high altitude sequencing into San Jose and Oakland airports.

NOTE: As a reminder; Pilot Airspace Deviations continue to be a major risk in the national airspace system. To reduce the chance that you might be involved in an airspace deviation incident, you are highly encouraged to take an on-line learning center course on http://www.faasafety.gov/. Or search the learning library for associated guidance on airspace incursions. Remember, safe and prudent airmen have superior situational awareness, and have a plan to keep it that way.

 

[Matthew]

I haven't been to any of the FAST seminars (or whatever they are called), but I've been to plenty of AOPA seminars. They usually show up at my local aerodrome in the spring and another time in the fall. It's a good way to catch up with a lot of local pilots, learn a thing or two, and get cookies. A number of pilots fly in, rather than drive.

Regarding the AOPA seminars - you can also view a lot of them on-line, and take other AOPA safety quizzes on-line for the same WINGS credit and save the trip to the airport.

 

[Apache123]

I haven't been to any of the FAST seminars (or whatever they are called), but I've been to plenty of AOPA seminars. They usually show up at my local aerodrome in the spring and another time in the fall. It's a good way to catch up with a lot of local pilots, learn a thing or two, and get cookies. A number of pilots fly in, rather than drive.

Regarding the AOPA seminars - you can also view a lot of them on-line, and take other AOPA safety quizzes on-line for the same WINGS credit and save the trip to the airport.

Agreed. It's more of a social gathering than anything. They can be interesting some times; at the 'Radio Communications' ASF seminar the other day I was able to put faces to voices I instantly recognized from Palwaukee and Midway towers.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I haven't been to any of the FAST seminars (or whatever they are called), but I've been to plenty of AOPA seminars. They usually show up at my local aerodrome in the spring and another time in the fall. It's a good way to catch up with a lot of local pilots, learn a thing or two, and get cookies. A number of pilots fly in, rather than drive.

Regarding the AOPA seminars - you can also view a lot of them on-line, and take other AOPA safety quizzes on-line for the same WINGS credit and save the trip to the airport.

Nobody said anything about free cookies. I am totally going now.

 

[denverpilot]

There's also the benefit no one's mentioning... Most of these count for some level of the Wings program.

Keep up on both the ground and flight requirements and never have to schedule a BFR ever again.

Tim will be along shortly with more details and answers to questions.

I do recommend seeing what level of Wings they count for. I've got a beejillion "Basic" ground credits but rarely see many Advanced or Master accredited events in my area.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

There's also the benefit no one's mentioning... Most of these count for some level of the Wings program.

Keep up on both the ground and flight requirements and never have to schedule a BFR ever again.

Tim will be along shortly with more details and answers to questions.

I do recommend seeing what level of Wings they count for. I've got a beejillion "Basic" ground credits but rarely see many Advanced or Master accredited events in my area.

Well technically when I get checked out in a plane that is probably the flight stuff (though I just got checked out in a 172 and didn't think to ask my instructor to verify via WINGs since it was so close to my checkride).

 

[denverpilot]

If it met any of the requirements just ask anyway. It's automated and you'll have to search for your CFI by name or number.

You enter it, they get a notification that you've requested it, they hit yes or no, done. The screen now shows your new expiration date. Easy-peasy.

It's basically built on the concept that "continuous" learning is better than two years between flights with a CFI.

More and more things also count all the time. Checkrides at some larger schools and Civil Air Patrol Form 5 and other checkrides have recently been added. Probably will continue to grow.

My Gleim Instrument Written study counted for a number of credits. A CFII on staff there contacted me pro-actively while I was studying, and after passing their online test, confirmed the Wings credits.

 

[NoHeat]

Having attended three WINGS seminars now, my opinion is that their value depends greatly on who the speaker is.

I attended the "Say Again? Radio Communication Done Right" seminar about a month ago. Maybe you'll get the same speaker, maybe not. I thought the very nice lady speaker we heard was actually not that knowledgeable and did not give a particularly good talk. I'm not sure if the audience minded -- it didn't cost anything, and many of them were there, regardless of whether the seminar was useful, just because attending resulted in some savings on their aircraft insurance.

 

[denverpilot]

I should mention that some of the online stuff has better depth of material than the in-person stuff.

A recent AOPA/ASF seminar done live via GoToMeeting on RADAR data was chock full of great info. Reminded me of Scott's stuff he posts here.

I had some minor problems because I chose to try out the GoToMeeting iPad App instead of using a computer but I sent info on those problems to ASF afterward. (Couldn't participate in interactive quizzes.)

 

[C. Kelley]

The flight school I used to rent from hosts a WINGS seminar every month. Before I moved from the area, I attended as many of these seminars as I could and learned a lot of useful information from almost all of them, especially being a low time pilot. One seminar included the proper method of hand-propping an airplane complete with a demonstation. My favorite WINGS seminar was on the topic of post crash survival & first aid which was taught by a retired army pilot and a local doctor/private pilot. I'm sure the quality of these seminars depends on the host.

 

[flyingriki]

Excellent question Kimberley. I've never been quite sure how these result in insurance or BFR modifications. Can anyone decipher the gobbledygook in the rules and explain it?

 

[denverpilot]

Excellent question Kimberley. I've never been quite sure how these result in insurance or BFR modifications. Can anyone decipher the gobbledygook in the rules and explain it?

It's all explained at FAASafety.gov. Two things should be more obvious on the front page that aren't.

A) There is a little tiny link to "User guide" on the front page. Download it and keep it handy while working your way around the website. Helpful. Almost hidden.

B) The registration/login box at the top right is where it begins. Register then you can log in and explore.

After that, the next thing to do is to go to your profile page (that arrow on the tiny login box actually drops down some links inside that little box, including the profile link. In the profile, you tell the FAA what types of things you're interested in receiving e-mail about. And the list is huge.

Next, when logged in, go to the "My Wings" page. All that crud in that god-awful front page is worthless without this page. Here you'll see four tabs.

Any Wings level qualifies as a BFR. Start with Basic. Look over the Ground and Air requirements. You'll see a way to search for events, online courses, and/or other things that qualify for Ground credits. For Air credits, just go fly with a CFI to match the items listed (air work, landings, all the usual stuff you do with a CFI anyway).

When you get home from the flight, go online and claim credit for the activity. CFI gets an e-mail asking them to confirm. They do. If you've checked off enough boxes, congratulations. You've earned Wings Basic! There will be an indication of when it expires and your BFR date is reset to that.

Then by continuously partaking in accredited activities, and earning Basic again, or Advanced, or Master Wings, you keep moving your BFR date. Continuous recurrency training versus a two year visit to a CFI.

As far as insurance goes, some give discounts if you remain active and have a Wings qualification.

There's quirks in the system but it's got the right idea in mind. And the website has gotten better but it still looks like dog's breakfast. They try to cram WAY too much stuff on the homepage which makes it seem FAR more complex than it really is.

There is a lot of good stuff on the home page, but it was apparently designed to trip up anyone who suffers from web-link induced ADD.

 

[Jack in Jax]

How valuable are WINGS Seminars?

Kimberly, let's return to your local Wings list of seminars...

As NoHeat alluded to, the critical factor in choosing any of these seminars is the right combo of the speaker and the topic. On your list, I would suggest the most useful topics for you to consider - if you fly in the area - are any of the seminars given by FAA TraCon controllers for the NorCal airspace. Controller personnel who would be speaking will likely have extensive experience (CT & Approach) in that specific ATC environment. They see the big picture and the specific conflict points where MOA's, RA's, etc. tend to funnel traffic, and they will usually have specific suggestions on altitudes, routes and when to use Flight Following to max your safety while increasing your comfort level. I recently attended a FAAST (FAA SafetyTeam)-sponsored Wings program given by a senior controller for Jax TraCon and ended up with enough useful tips and airspace information to include in the next 3 EAA newsletters I'm drafting. One very simple example: odd/even altitude rules are reversed in the Jax TraCon area but, while this is documented in a Letter of Agreement with the Tampa and Orlando TraCon groups, it's not openly promulgated to the pilot community. Very relevant, very practical stuff.

And even if the speaker isn't addressing your specific ops area, you would have the option of asking (and hearing others ask) more general questions about using ATC - e.g. phraseology ('What did she mean when the controller said...').

Jack

 

[DutchessFlier]

It's simple: Go to a WINGS seminar, get WINGS credit. 90% of the pilots around here go to seminars that are within driving distance. Some even fly to them if held close by.

Or, you can do the on-line WINGS programs and get credit as well.

 

[p1l0t]

Hello everyone,

I keep getting invited - from the FAA and from AOPA - to "local" WINGS seminars.

Problem is, they are all about 1-2 hours' drive (each way) since they are on weeknights in rush hour traffic.

Here is a list of what is coming up - have any of you attended these? Are they the same or different from area to area, or do they follow a set of slides so that all of us across the USA experience the same thing?

I want to get out there and do pilot stuff, but I can't go to all of them. Which ones do you suggest?

(Obviously I will go to the tailwheel one though)


------------------------------------------

Flight Safety through tailwheel training"
Topic: Tailwheel Flying, the transition process, and the benefits how it improves your all around flying and ADM.

Areas covered:
1. Physical differences between tricycle gear and tailwheel aircraft and how that relates to the differences in handling the two types
2. How understanding torque becomes critical in tailwheel take-offs and landings
3. The importance of coordinated flight
4. Crosswind landings and take-offs
5. Soft field landings and take-offs
6. Wheel landings
7. How the additional skills and awareness learned in tailwheel flying transfer to tricycle gear flying

-------------------------------------

Say Again? Radio Communication Done Right

Description:
Stymied by radio chatter every time you fly? Does everybody else get "cleared direct" and you don't? The Air Safety Institute digs deeper into radio communication in this information-packed seminar. Hear the other side of the story from air traffic controllers. Find out how to increase your margin of safety through effective communication with ATC. Don't miss this informative safety seminar designed to improve your communication skills and decrease your workload as a pilot.

----------------------------------------------

Airspace and Sectional Charts Made Easy!

Topic: How to interpret Sectionals and understand Airspace and its Regulations clearly.


Brief Description:
We'll take a flight from the Sierra Nevada mountains to Palo Alto exploring the airspace and regulations from the surface to outer space! Another flight will take us from Palo Alto to Compton. Whether you are a Student Pilot or a 25,000 hour plus retired Captain, this presentation will give you the tools to fly safely in our national airspace system. Please bring a SFO Sectional and terminal Area Chart (does not have to be current). We'll have a limited number of charts to use if you do not have one.

--------------------------------------

Title: NorCal TRACON sharing safe VFR flying practices in the Bay Area
Topic: Tim Wilson of Northern California TRACON (NCT) presents to local pilots


Brief Description: Tim Wilson is presenting an insight of the responsibilities and operation of the Northern California TRACON (NCT). Followed by an presentation with suggestions and best practices for VFR flying in the Bay area. After the presentation Tim will be available to Q&A's form the audience.

Additional Seminar Information & Acknowledgement of Industry Sponsor(s): This presentation is given by Tim Wilson who joined the FAA in September 1986, working at Oakland Center until 1988 then at San Carlos tower before moving to Monterey TRACON in January 1993. In 2002 Tim moved to Sacramento when Monterey approach was consolidated with Northern California TRACON. Tim works in area A covering Monterey airspace, San Jose arrivals and departures, Reid Hillview, Moffett, and Palo Alto airports. Additionally Tim works high altitude sequencing into San Jose and Oakland airports.

NOTE: As a reminder; Pilot Airspace Deviations continue to be a major risk in the national airspace system. To reduce the chance that you might be involved in an airspace deviation incident, you are highly encouraged to take an on-line learning center course on http://www.faasafety.gov/. Or search the learning library for associated guidance on airspace incursions. Remember, safe and prudent airmen have superior situational awareness, and have a plan to keep it that way.

You could always fly-in But yeah I have like 3 basic, 5 advanced, and 3 sets of master wings. Mostly because I started as a sudent and new ratings count for much credit. You'll get to hear from different pilots from all different types of experiance levels and types of operations. I recommend them, mostly for the hangar flying and networking. Some of the seminars are pretty good too though. (And each set of wings counts as a BFR, its harder than just a BFR but you might learn something)

<---<^>--->

 

[spinfire]

I attended one of the radio communications seminars. I've always been pretty strong with the radio work but the seminar was good for a WINGS credit so I figured what the heck. Avemco offers discounts for people who participate in WINGS.

The basic content of the seminar wasn't anything new for me. We did discuss an interesting incident of a 1980s runway incursion where poor radio communication on the part of both ATC and airline pilots played a part.

The most useful part was the fact that two local controllers were present. One was a recently retired Boston Approach controller and the other a Boston Center controller (he was at the opposite end from retirement, I'd say!). They provided some good advice and were approachable after the seminar for questions. This alone was worth the drive, the seminar was free.

 

[bluee]

I went to the Radio Communications seminar. The speaker was just okay, and frankly the online course was better. I was interested in hearing from air traffic controllers, but there were none at the course I went to, just a few speakers talking about some runway incursions. So I really think it depends on the speakers.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Re: How valuable are WINGS Seminars?

Kimberly, let's return to your local Wings list of seminars...

As NoHeat alluded to, the critical factor in choosing any of these seminars is the right combo of the speaker and the topic. On your list, I would suggest the most useful topics for you to consider - if you fly in the area - are any of the seminars given by FAA TraCon controllers for the NorCal airspace. Controller personnel who would be speaking will likely have extensive experience (CT & Approach) in that specific ATC environment. They see the big picture and the specific conflict points where MOA's, RA's, etc. tend to funnel traffic, and they will usually have specific suggestions on altitudes, routes and when to use Flight Following to max your safety while increasing your comfort level. I recently attended a FAAST (FAA SafetyTeam)-sponsored Wings program given by a senior controller for Jax TraCon and ended up with enough useful tips and airspace information to include in the next 3 EAA newsletters I'm drafting. One very simple example: odd/even altitude rules are reversed in the Jax TraCon area but, while this is documented in a Letter of Agreement with the Tampa and Orlando TraCon groups, it's not openly promulgated to the pilot community. Very relevant, very practical stuff.

And even if the speaker isn't addressing your specific ops area, you would have the option of asking (and hearing others ask) more general questions about using ATC - e.g. phraseology ('What did she mean when the controller said...').

Jack

I agree. The tracon meeting sounds interesting. I may or may not have a conflict when it is being held, but I think they repeat them several times a year.

 

[steingar]

I've attended a few. They mostly featured poor speakers who made little use of the excellent audio-visual equipment available to them. I no longer go out of my way to attend.

Want a good safety seminar? Go listen to Rod Machado. In addition to being enormously entertaining, he's given me ideas about judgement and risk management that I use to this day.

 

[COFlyBoy]

Problem is, they are all about 1-2 hours' drive (each way) since they are on weeknights in rush hour traffic.

Wait a second! Didn't you just recently pass some sort of test that gives you priveleges that obviates this problem.

The seminars I have been to have always been very close to an airport (as in on the airport).

I've enjoyed all of the seminars that I've attended. The latest one was a fireside chat with the controllers from KAPA.

 

[COFlyBoy]

I've attended a few. They mostly featured poor speakers who made little use of the excellent audio-visual equipment available to them. I no longer go out of my way to attend.

Want a good safety seminar? Go listen to Rod Machado. In addition to being enormously entertaining, he's given me ideas about judgement and risk management that I use to this day.

That's a bummer.

I attended one on "How to crash...and stay alive". It was given by a guy who was a former laywer for defending Cessna. He had a lot of good anecdotes, was a good presenter and convinced me to go get shoulder harnesses for my plane.

So far, I haven't been to one that I'd call bad. Maybe the Denver FAAST team is cooler than others.

 

[flyingron]

I stopped participating in WINGS when it went from safety-motivated into an pathetic empire-building morass for the FAA bureaucracy. Most of the lectures are repetitious here and made worse because they're all preceded by 20 minutes of incoherent ramblings by our idiot FAA Safety Coordinator.

 

[steingar]

So far, I haven't been to one that I'd call bad. Maybe the Denver FAAST team is cooler than others.

The only good one was by Machado. The rest have been an utter waste of time. I went to one at Oshkosh that was misleading and somewhat offensive.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Wait a second! Didn't you just recently pass some sort of test that gives you priveleges that obviates this problem.

The seminars I have been to have always been very close to an airport (as in on the airport).

I've enjoyed all of the seminars that I've attended. The latest one was a fireside chat with the controllers from KAPA.

Yes but several things:

1. I know how to drive a stick shift (to save gas). Depending on the amount of stop and go, I can easily get 30 - 45mpg in my tiny Civic and gas costs $3.97 a gallon. The airplane is not as cheap unfortunately.

2. The ONLY airport I'm checked out in for rental planes has a marine layer that comes in each night with hard overcast ceilings of less than 1,000 feet. So even if I departed I could probably not make it back. And they have lessons the next morning so leaving the plane somewhere else is not OK.

3. All these seminars are at night. Flying solo at night in a single is not always best, plus what if during the 2 hour talk the weather changed and I was stuck there? The Bay Area gets a lot of fog / marine layers at night. Just the other day I took the day off work to fly and the weather briefers told me clear until midnight, no clouds. At 4pm I watched my airport get socked in, in less than 15 minutes. It was horrible.


Kimberly

 

[kimberlyanne546]

The only good one was by Machado. The rest have been an utter waste of time. I went to one at Oshkosh that was misleading and somewhat offensive.

Are pilots easily offended? I thought they had a tough skin?

 

[Matthew]

Yes but several things:

1. I know how to drive a stick shift (to save gas). Depending on the amount of stop and go, I can easily get 30 - 45mpg in my tiny Civic and gas costs $3.97 a gallon. The airplane is not as cheap unfortunately.

2. The ONLY airport I'm checked out in for rental planes has a marine layer that comes in each night with hard overcast ceilings of less than 1,000 feet. So even if I departed I could probably not make it back. And they have lessons the next morning so leaving the plane somewhere else is not OK.

3. All these seminars are at night. Flying solo at night in a single is not always best, plus what if during the 2 hour talk the weather changed and I was stuck there? The Bay Area gets a lot of fog / marine layers at night. Just the other day I took the day off work to fly and the weather briefers told me clear until midnight, no clouds. At 4pm I watched my airport get socked in, in less than 15 minutes. It was horrible.


Kimberly

I'd move.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I'd move.

Nope I just need to switch airports. For example, when O69 was socked in and that POA pilot from NY could not fly with me due to weather, we drove past KDVO and it was clear below 12,000. STS was fine too. It is just my cursed airport!!!

 

[denverpilot]

That's a bummer.

I attended one on "How to crash...and stay alive". It was given by a guy who was a former laywer for defending Cessna. He had a lot of good anecdotes, was a good presenter and convinced me to go get shoulder harnesses for my plane.

So far, I haven't been to one that I'd call bad. Maybe the Denver FAAST team is cooler than others.

I actually think there's some merit to that. Denver FSDO's FAAST team is quite active and high-caliber.

That particular presentation is from Mick Wilson's text, "How to crash an airplane and survive", with presentations being continued by the local FSDO -- long after his retirement from same.

Mick used to give that presentation under the original Wings program, long ago. (They gave out real plastic Wings back then.)

I learned that Aspen trees are softer than Pine trees as a brand new PPL from Mick at that seminar in 1992 or 1993. Wet behind the ears, I'd never even thought about it before that night.

I was thoroughly embarrassed by a friend when Mick had a slide on the screen of an aircraft upside down in water showing what happens to fixed gear aircraft ditching. The slide was talking about keeping the gear up for a water landing if you had the option.

My friend hollered out, "That *is* a gear-up landing!"

Mick, graciously replied after the room's laughter died down, "Stick around after the presentation, I'd like to inspect your pilot certificate!"

Fun night.

 

[denverpilot]

Adding another comment... If the local content sucks, flight clubs can fix that.

Independence Aviation at KAPA has been doing some great stuff including a very detailed set of seminars on using the iPad as a real cockpit tool, and bringing in a company that makes a hypoxia machine that simulates the type of training one might receive in a real altitude chamber.

Aspen Flying Club at KAPA was the driving force behind the annual "Tower Fireside Chat" with two controllers and the Acting Tower Manager this week. It was a good presentation chock full of information about the special procedures at KAPA.

All of the above seminars were Wings approved activities. FAAST team member/CFII Ted Matthews from Aspen put the credits through on the Fireside chat faster than I've ever seen for more than 100 attendees. I sent him an e-mail saying "Wow, that was fast!", he replied that he wanted to have it done the night before.

It takes local dedicated folks to make a continuous training program like Wings really work and stay fresh and interesting. We haz 'em!

 

[gprellwitz]

Personally, I tend to find the ASI (Air Safety Institute, formerly Air Safety Foundation) seminars to be pretty good. They're also about the only ones that even attempt to standardize nationwide.

If your local ATC ever offers an Operation Raincheck seminar, where they take you up to Center, Approach, or Tower and let you plug in with the controllers, GO!!! They're really worthwhile. Here in Chicago they take place at ZAU (Center), last about 3 hours, and provide Advanced Wings credit.

 

[Horus927]

I've been to several of the seminars. Some are better than others. All have free food of some sort lol. Only get the ASF ones once a year that I've noticed. GHAFI (look it up) hold quarterly seminars/FIRCs and those can be real good. This upcoming one is going to be on spins. The DPE I use is a member of GHAFI and usually attends/speaks at their seminars, which I find invaluable. The FAASteam seminars are more of a social gathering. A lot of other seminars seem to be hosted/sponsored by the 99s.
If I see an interesting topic I go. I'm always on the lookout for snippets of knowledge.

 

[denverpilot]

I've been to several of the seminars. Some are better than others. All have free food of some sort lol.

You're the second person to mention free food. No free food at any of them around here.

(Of course, when you have over 100 people show up for the one this week, no flight club's picking up the bill on free food for that crowd... they have to use a conference room of the Ramada on the field to even fit all those people.)

 

[gprellwitz]

American Flyers at DuPage has free burgers and dogs (sans ketchup) at their meetings, and give certificates for free simulator time. The quality of the actual seminar is inconsistent. Some very good, others only fair.

 

[Horus927]

American Flyers at DuPage has free burgers and dogs (sans ketchup) at their meetings, and give certificates for free simulator time. The quality of the actual seminar is inconsistent. Some very good, others only fair.

Got a branch here that does the same. Now that you mention it, I'm missing out......
And the one here DOES have ketchup!
I went once but never got the simulator certificate

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Got a branch here that does the same. Now that you mention it, I'm missing out......
And the one here DOES have ketchup!
I went once but never got the simulator certificate

Um. . . long story . . . but the ketchup thing is an inside joke on POA . . . or did you already know about the ketchup / mustard thing?

 

[azure]

You're the second person to mention free food. No free food at any of them around here.

Nor around here either, though I think they had bottled water at one of them (I could be confusing that with a non-Wings seminar though). The setting here is always a large conference room at a hotel outside Ypsilanti, and it's pretty ascetic.

I think I've been to three of them so far, all in the same place. They were all worth the time. They're going to have Say Again here in a couple of weeks; I'm hoping to go, if my work schedule will allow it.

 

[Luvrv8]

I just went to one here a couple of weeks ago. The class was basically "If you dont hire me and my sim you will die soon". He did spend 5 min on how the static and pitot system works. I am tired of going to these to be but into infomercial.

 

[Horus927]

Um. . . long story . . . but the ketchup thing is an inside joke on POA . . . or did you already know about the ketchup / mustard thing?

Lol what seems more likely to you? I have no idea about the ketchup thing

 

[p1l0t]

Nope I just need to switch airports. For example, when O69 was socked in and that POA pilot from NY could not fly with me due to weather, we drove past KDVO and it was clear below 12,000. STS was fine too. It is just my cursed airport!!!

Hehe I know the feeling. I fly out of HFD, and we don't have too much fog there but it is next to the river so when it is foggy we are always the last ones to clear up. I am instrument rated though, so as long as not coming back in is OK then I can just blast off to my destination. (Bradley international is also 10nm north, which you can fly the ILS down to 200AGL, good alternate)

<---<^>--->