MetalCloud
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MetalCloud
That x100
Harrison Ford doin' some bush landings
- Thread starter Patrojv
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That x100
WillFly4Food
Pre-takeoff checklist
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WillFly4Food
His landing on a taxiway, the radio comms, seeing the passenger jet and not going around, all of this could actually be related. Kind of seems like too much fatigue at the end of a long day. But that's just a guess. He pilot's a lot of different aircraft, heck, not enough sleep and I occasionally struggle with identifying myself as Skylane vs. Skyhawk (which one am I renting today...).
Who knows? But I don't think we should draw a conclusion that this one incident is an example of his typical flying, or capability. Let's cut him some slack, and let him figure out what he needs to figure out.
Who knows? But I don't think we should draw a conclusion that this one incident is an example of his typical flying, or capability. Let's cut him some slack, and let him figure out what he needs to figure out.
Lowflynjack
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Jack Fleetwood
I see people saying we should cut him some slack, but I wonder if he's being given the benefit of the doubt because he's famous, not being scrutinized because of his fame.
If someone told us to listen to this audio without telling us who the pilot was, then told us the pilot landed on a taxiway, I think we'd all be concerned. Not only did he say helicopter, but couldn't seem to come up with Husky so he kept repeating helicopter, and all of that was on the wrong frequency. Then the fact that he did land on a taxiway at an airport we're told he frequents, and only after he'd landed did he decide to question the airliner being under him, suggests he had some issues going on.
I think that audio clip is way too brief to make generalizations from.
Ravioli
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This story finally made it the news channel I watch this morning. Must be a slow news day.
Funkeruski
Pre-takeoff checklist
And media going full retard right on cue.
Lowflynjack
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I don't think it's a generalization, it's facts. He stumbled around his radio calls, he called the wrong tower, and he landed on the wrong taxiway. The combination of things show a pattern.
He didn't call the wrong tower. He was given a handoff and didn't flip the switch. Who hasn't done that?
Lowflynjack
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Jack Fleetwood
I'm not saying any one thing here is a major issue, but adding up all of the evidence and it's hard to ignore. He did make a call to the wrong tower, maybe because he didn't flip a switch, but either way he did make a call to the wrong tower. From that, to calling his plane a helicopter, to landing on the wrong taxiway, we can't give him a break because he's famous. The wrong calls, to the wrong tower are nothing on their own, but add them to the fact that he landed on a taxiway, and didn't even attempt to go around after he says he flew over a jet, and you've got a pilot who was having issues. Even if he thought it was the runway, a plane pulling out would make you go around and tell the tower there was a plane on the runway.
If it's true he goes into that airport often, that makes it even more scary. Would you land on a taxiway at an airport you use all of the time? I hope he gets a slap on the wrist and doesn't have any issue flying going forward, but that day he may have had some health issues or other reasons where he should have grounded himself. It doesn't sound like a simple mistake to me.
I think he deserves at least a 709 ride for the taxiway landing, but the radio calls seem like a nonevent to me. I fly two very different airplanes for work as well as half a dozen other GA planes on occasion. If I've spent three days in a row in one and then my next trip is in the other, there's a good chance I'll make a few "Pilat.....Citation Nxxxxx" calls.
Everskyward
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This. Pilots who fly two or more types occasionally mess up the type in radio calls. I've done it myself and have heard others do it. That in itself doesn't mean anything. I've also lined up for a taxiway before, although I always realized my error before landing on it.
The generalizations I'm referring to are the conclusions that are being drawn from those facts.
Lowflynjack
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Ok. I think it's multiple mistakes, with the final one being the one that will get attention. I believe they would have done the investigation just based on the landing, but they will look at the radio calls as evidence. They may dismiss that evidence, but they'll review it.
If I heard the recordings and it was one of my friends, I would ask them if they were feeling bad that day, tired, etc. We'll have to see where it goes.
If I heard the recordings and it was one of my friends, I would ask them if they were feeling bad that day, tired, etc. We'll have to see where it goes.
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iflyvfr
Pattern Altitude
Yeah, I just listened and it sounds like it could be, as someone else mentioned, something as simple as a classic case of fatigue. I was expecting slurred, stammering speech, but believe he uttered a quick "thanks for that" to the tower when given his instructions. Regardless, I wish him (and us) a positive outcome.
Sounds reasonable.
Lindberg
Final Approach
What would the 709 ride involve? "Mr. Ford, should airplanes land on runways or taxiways?" "Runways." "You pass."
With a 737 parked on the threshold?
On one of the videos, it looks like the 737 was in motion (until it got to the hold short line), so it's possible that it might not have entered that taxiway until Ford was on final.
comanche pilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
I figured the sight picture he was experiencing looked good to him, obviously. I assume he was used to bringing his helicopter in on this parallel taxiway. Now today, I hear the radio work and he is announcing himself as a helicopter and then correcting himself... Interesting.
I agree. That is interesting. It may be a normal approach for a heli. I wonder if the press isn't going to cause the faa to make an example of him though.
kkoran
Pattern Altitude
Interesting possibility.
SoCal RV Flyer
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I can see confusing airplane types, but saying helicopter three times before correcting himself? Maybe he was extremely tired or something, but it's up to him to self-evaluate to see if he's in condition to safely conduct the flight. I know I've passed a few times on flying due to low blood sugar levels, etc.
I don't think he identified himself as a helicopter 3 times. The first time, he was saying lax helicopter tower, which is propbably the correct contact if he were in a heli. The entire event seems to revolve around him thinking he was in his helicopter. Which makes it seem less of an issue. If he's been flying the heli a lot recently I could see it to some degree. I do think it's concerning that he continued to be confused, and it definitely is more serious when he doesn't follow Tower clearances and lands without thinking about what he is doing. That's a pretty big blind spot.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
You're on short final. You see a 737 approaching or crossing your final approach path. Maybe "sumting wong" you think? Like maybe you should go-around, oh shet I'm not lined up w/ 20L maybe I should go-around, oh shet I'm lined up with the taxiway maybe I should go-around.
All the other stuff (heli call sign etc) may be a factor or not be. What is a factor is he landed on a taxiway. Not the first time it's happened. I know of at least 2 who did it at my airline, both in ATL, and I'm sure there was more who did so. He screwed up period.
All the other stuff (heli call sign etc) may be a factor or not be. What is a factor is he landed on a taxiway. Not the first time it's happened. I know of at least 2 who did it at my airline, both in ATL, and I'm sure there was more who did so. He screwed up period.
What was the consequence for the two you know of who did it?
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
One had an attitude problem and heard he had other incidents. I think the FAA busted him all the way down. So he was terminated as he couldn't fly. Believe it or not he trained and got them all back so the company had him set up for ATR-72 training (weren't putting him back on the jet) and he never showed up.
The other guy realized they had screwed up and asked tower if there'd be repercussions but the controller told him no worries. So he talks with his good friend, who headed the training department, and he advised him to cover w/ a ASAR or whatever it's called, so he did. Our POI (FSDO) looked into it and found out ATC had nothing on file. I don't know what happened on the ATC end, but the Capt was a good guy, great attitude, and received some training and he was good to go.
Blows my mind because both of these incidents occurred at ATL on 27L and we were required to have the ILS up for backup in VMC.
Always a good idea to get the right attitude (cockpit right side up) after you screw up.
I also certainly agree with your real meaning
.Cheers
denverpilot
Tied Down
I've been busy and away while the Harrison Ford "drama" has been unfolding, but I've also lined up on a taxiway before, and managed to figure it out, thankfully. That's a pretty easy one to have happen with certain lighting, pavement colors, yadda yadda...
And until they TURNED IN INTO a runway, I think nearly everyone had lined up on the taxiway at KPUB... LOL... A little paint, a few changes to the lights... and it became a parallel.
And until they TURNED IN INTO a runway, I think nearly everyone had lined up on the taxiway at KPUB... LOL... A little paint, a few changes to the lights... and it became a parallel.
SoCal RV Flyer
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At a nontowered field, you could land on a taxiway and it would probably be a "no harm, no foul" situation. Maybe you'd fill out a NASA form? Thoughts?
I'm not aware of any regulation against landing on a taxiway at a non-towered airport, if it's done without hazard to persons or property. At a towered airport, you would have the issue of not complying with a clearance or instruction (91.123).
WannFly
Final Approach
I had both taxiways next to the runway wide open today and choosing the taxiway closer to the fbo crossed my mind, but no media will pay any attention to that...so I bailed
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Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
3 in the green
Line Up and Wait
So much discussion here around landing on the wrong taxiway. It happens. I can see how it does too. But every example cited didn't have a friggin airliner sitting in your way - that's the issue for me.
Look at this angle in the first 20 seconds, it's the best I've seen so far. I would otherwise feel remiss about sending an "Inside Edition" video, so I recommend watching with no audio (it's what I did).
Radio calls - who cares, even wrong landing surface...sure...but with a jet full of px right in the way and you don't go around? I love the guy, but the video shows he screwed up, period. Arguably, the public spokesperson for GA needs to be held to an even higher standard - he represents all of our interests.
Look at this angle in the first 20 seconds, it's the best I've seen so far. I would otherwise feel remiss about sending an "Inside Edition" video, so I recommend watching with no audio (it's what I did).
Radio calls - who cares, even wrong landing surface...sure...but with a jet full of px right in the way and you don't go around? I love the guy, but the video shows he screwed up, period. Arguably, the public spokesperson for GA needs to be held to an even higher standard - he represents all of our interests.
3 in the green
Line Up and Wait
I've landed on a taxiway at a towered airport, and at a non-towered airport. And more than once.
Your new avatar, lol
Lindberg
Final Approach
I wouldn't say anything was sitting in his way. He failed to follow an ATC instruction, and for that he should be sanctioned. But nothing he did was inherently dangerous. I assume we've all landed over other aircraft and in the vicinity of other aircraft. And the taxiway, while not approved in this situation, was perfectly adequate for the operation.So much discussion here around landing on the wrong taxiway. It happens. I can see how it does too. But every example cited didn't have a friggin airliner sitting in your way - that's the issue for me.
Look at this angle in the first 20 seconds, it's the best I've seen so far. I would otherwise feel remiss about sending an "Inside Edition" video, so I recommend watching with no audio (it's what I did).
Radio calls - who cares, even wrong landing surface...sure...but with a jet full of px right in the way and you don't go around? I love the guy, but the video shows he screwed up, period. Arguably, the public spokesperson for GA needs to be held to an even higher standard - he represents all of our interests.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
I'm obviously speculating, but I keep seeing the phrase "confirmation bias" and think it probably applies here.
I think his mistaken belief that taxiway alpha was 20L could have been reinforced by his being familiar with the parallel runways at this airport, and because you often see an airliner routinely moving in from left to right when landing on 20L .
I think his mistaken belief that taxiway alpha was 20L could have been reinforced by his being familiar with the parallel runways at this airport, and because you often see an airliner routinely moving in from left to right when landing on 20L .
Datadriver
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"Arguably, the public spokesperson for GA needs to be held to an even higher standard - he represents all of our interests."
The boner landing, radio calls, etc.
The boner landing, radio calls, etc.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Wait, the video seems to show that he did not cross over the top of the jet, even though the breathless commentator notes that his *shadow* crossed over it.So much discussion here around landing on the wrong taxiway. It happens. I can see how it does too. But every example cited didn't have a friggin airliner sitting in your way - that's the issue for me.
Look at this angle in the first 20 seconds, it's the best I've seen so far. I would otherwise feel remiss about sending an "Inside Edition" video, so I recommend watching with no audio (it's what I did).
Radio calls - who cares, even wrong landing surface...sure...but with a jet full of px right in the way and you don't go around? I love the guy, but the video shows he screwed up, period. Arguably, the public spokesperson for GA needs to be held to an even higher standard - he represents all of our interests.