Hard landing at John Wayne

Not to be picky but it was at John Wayne, not John Tune. I find it interesting that they put the pilots' ages in the article. Sometimes they add stuff and you go.....why??
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
..... Sometimes they add stuff and you go.....why??
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and they also fail to put stuff in...and I think ......"why??"
such as in this case some mention of the weather, the winds so that us readers can jump in with some serious assumptions
( I have this reaction often when my wife has the Today show or some other TV news on in the background...)

and to zeldman's point, they probably get a bonus if those words don't actually complete the story or give any useful information....

Do journalists actually go to school anymore?
 
Wonder if the girls in back are ever going to fly with the two up front again.
 
I was beginning to wonder when Tune got airline service. I suspect this is because they searched for JWN (which is TUNE), John Wayne is SNA. No idea why Tune is JWN other than the good ids were taken (JCT would have made more sense but it's in use at Junction TX (Kimble County)). John Wayne/Orange County/Anaheim is SNA because it is in Santa Ana.
 
Says none of the other 141 on board got hurt. And that she was sitting in a jump seat in the back. What’s that mean? Are all of the FA seats called ‘jump.’ Are they padded? Could she have been sitting on something unpadded?
 
Like it ,a firm landing as opposed to a hard landing. It’s all in the wording.
 
Haha... yes, if a Southwest passenger jet is landing at John Tune, there are several things that have gone wrong. -hope she heals up with little or no lingering effects.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Not to be picky but it was at John Wayne, not John Tune. I find it interesting that they put the pilots' ages in the article. Sometimes they add stuff and you go.....why??
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I fixed the thread title. The pilots’ ages aren’t even the dumbest numbers thrown into the article. The runway length along with the runway lengths at LAX for comparison is going to mislead a lot of readers to think that shorter runways equal rougher landings, and start thinking that airlines should only fly to airports with at least 18,000 feet of runway available.
 
iamtheari said:
I fixed the thread title. The pilots’ ages aren’t even the dumbest numbers thrown into the article. The runway length along with the runway lengths at LAX for comparison is going to mislead a lot of readers to think that shorter runways equal rougher landings, and start thinking that airlines should only fly to airports with at least 18,000 feet of runway available.
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Ok you airliner guys. I know some airports require a special qual. Is it sometimes just because of short runways?
 
It’s a “short” runway by airline standards. I always perk up when I fly into SNA. I don’t fly into Key West anymore but even that was kind of short for an RJ. You had to be on your game and just accept you’re just going to pancake it in if you float or just go around and try again. You don’t want to try to finesse a good landing while you’re floating half way down the runway
 
Special quals are for lots of reasons. Usually associated with complicated arrivals, departures, single engine stuff or go around procedures that are due to terrain.

Just a shorter than average runway usually doesn’t qualify.

All fa jump seats are as “safe” as any seat, maybe more so as they have shoulder straps, just unusually uncomfortable. I’m guessing this was associated with not being strapped in correctly, or her restraint failed. Total guess.

Like ALL planes, transport category planes can be landed right where you want EVERY time with practice and proficiency. Period. Out of trillions of landings, this was a goof, or an extroardinary meteorological phenomena came into play.
 
Groundpounder said:
What do you mean?
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From the CVR when an AA crea totaled an A321 on takeoff at JFK a couple years ago.

First officer: “Your airplane, your airplane, your airplane. I don’t know what’s goin’ on.”
Captain: “What the # (happened)?”
First officer: “I don’t know. Ah the engines all go, good.”
Captain: “The # ju- it just # rolled on me.”
First officer: “What the # is that? Are we continuing? #. These girls will never fly with
us again. I thought we were gone.”
First officer: “That scared the # outta me, I thought we were gone.”
Captain: “The # airplane just rolled on me dude.”

https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-pilot-almost-crashed-plane/
 
31C at MDW is 5522. Even the -800 lands there.....was the runway contaminated (the only time it really becomes an issue, locally) ?
 
TCABM said:
From the CVR when an AA crea totaled an A321 on takeoff at JFK a couple years ago.

First officer: “Your airplane, your airplane, your airplane. I don’t know what’s goin’ on.”
Captain: “What the # (happened)?”
First officer: “I don’t know. Ah the engines all go, good.”
Captain: “The # ju- it just # rolled on me.”
First officer: “What the # is that? Are we continuing? #. These girls will never fly with
us again. I thought we were gone.”
First officer: “That scared the # outta me, I thought we were gone.”
Captain: “The # airplane just rolled on me dude.”

https://onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-pilot-almost-crashed-plane/
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Lol..
Captain: “That was a ah full left rudder on the, on the runway to keep it on the runway and then ah the one- the once we got airborne she just went # tits up.”
Flight attendant: “Okay just keep us abreast. Good job.”
 
jordane93 said:
It’s a “short” runway by airline standards. I always perk up when I fly into SNA. I don’t fly into Key West anymore but even that was kind of short for an RJ. You had to be on your game and just accept you’re just going to pancake it in if you float or just go around and try again. You don’t want to try to finesse a good landing while you’re floating half way down the runway
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Recently landed at SNA (after this event). Pilot gave an unusually long and verbose announcement on approach about the "short runway and firm landing we will be experiencing".

Maybe half the commercial landings I experience there plant firmly enough for a few gasps in back.
 
What is brace position and why would the FA have done that? Is it SOP? “…The NTSB report states that the flight attendant conducted normal pre-landing activities such as securing the cabin and galley. Once in her jumpseat, she secured her harness and got into the brace position…”
https://avgeekery.com/southwest-flight-attendant-suffers-back-injury/
 
luvflyin said:
What is brace position and why would the FA have done that? Is it SOP?
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In an aft-facing seat, as all of the FA jumpseats on a 737 are, brace position is sitting upright with your hands and legs in a position to minimize injury. SOP would be for FAs to assume this position for all landings in case of an unexpected landing accident.

I've landing 737s many times at SNA. It's a very short runway for us and doesn't leave any margin for error. A firm touchdown is likely to prevent a float. Autobrakes would be on MAX, which is very aggressive, and most pilots will disengage them very early in the landing roll.

With only one person being injured, I wouldn't assume that the landings was as excessively hard as some may assume. The certification standard for touchdown is that the airplane must withstand touchdowns, without damage, at a descent rate of 600 feet-per-minute when at, or below, its maximum landing weight. That's hitting a concrete wall (runway) at 6.8mph. It's pretty hard.
 
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Larry in TN said:
Autobrakes would be on MAX, which is very aggressive, and most pilots will disengage them very early in the landing roll.
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Definitely too aggressive for me. On a dry runway I'll do 3 every time (of course I'm not flying the -900 either!). But I agree that since nobody else was hurt, I'd be willing to bet that the landing was perhaps firm, but otherwise within parameters.
 
At what point do we get to learn she had a prior injury and just aggravated it? Or she has a degenerative bone disease? Hope she recovers quickly.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
At what point do we get to learn she had a prior injury and just aggravated it? Or she has a degenerative bone disease? Hope she recovers quickly.
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I actually hope we don't get to learn about any of that, and that she can regain her privacy.
 
luvflyin said:
Ok you airliner guys. I know some airports require a special qual. Is it sometimes just because of short runways?
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It could be short runways, or, more likely, high terrain/tricky arrivals or approaches.

Special Qual airports are governed by FAR 121.445.

Here's the complete list:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N_8900.304.pdf

If we are going to a Special Qual airport, there are pages in the Jepps we have to review if we haven't landed there in the last 12 months.
 
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Larry in TN said:
In an aft-facing seat, as all of the FA jumpseats on a 737 are, brace position is sitting upright with your hands and legs in a position to minimize injury. SOP would be for FAs to assume this position for all landings in case of an unexpected landing accident.

I've landing 737s many times at SNA. It's a very short runway for us and doesn't leave any margin for error. A firm touchdown is likely to prevent a float. Autobrakes would be on MAX, which is very aggressive, and most pilots will disengage them very early in the landing roll.

With only one person being injured, I wouldn't assume that the landings was as excessively hard as some may assume. The certification standard for touchdown is that the airplane must withstand touchdowns, without damage, at a descent rate of 600 feet-per-minute when at, or below, its maximum landing weight. That's hitting a concrete wall (runway) at 6.8mph. It's pretty hard.
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Ok. Brace is sitting upright. I was having this picture of bending over somehow. That could cause some kind vertical whip lashing thing. Supposedly it was vertebrae #3 which is in the neck. There was talk in another thread about FO's doing a lot of the landings at SNA so the Captain would do the takeoffs. The taking turns thing. They were saying the Captain has to do the takeoffs because of that noise abatement procedure.
 
luvflyin said:
Ok. Brace is sitting upright. I was having this picture of bending over somehow.
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That would be for forward-faces seats. Aft-facing seats is upright. In both cases, it is to provide protection from deceleration loads.

There was talk in another thread about FO's doing a lot of the landings at SNA so the Captain would do the takeoffs. The taking turns thing. They were saying the Captain has to do the takeoffs because of that noise abatement procedure.
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Never heard of that. The landing is more challenging than the departure. All that's required for the departure is accurate lateral adherence with the RNAV departure path. We also use an NADP-1 profile which delays power reduction, acceleration, and clean-up until a higher altitude but that's routine.
 
Larry in TN said:
That would be for forward-faces seats. Aft-facing seats is upright. In both cases, it is to provide protection from deceleration loads.


Never heard of that. The landing is more challenging than the departure. All that's required for the departure is accurate lateral adherence with the RNAV departure path. We also use an NADP-1 profile which delays power reduction, acceleration, and clean-up until a higher altitude but that's routine.
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I asked an FA on Southwest about this last night. She said they point their head to the front of the plane. I asked if they bend over at the waist to do that. She said no, just bend the head to get the crown of the head pointed forward. It was on this flight. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA803 See if you can guess what happened. Just kinda a trivia question, I already know.
 
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