Happy Unemployment Day

Hopefully this is a good learning opportunity for the OP when he gets his next job. During probation/ trial, your number 1 job is to be likable.

That ^

I work with a lot of negative people. I also used to have a chip on my shoulder about management and incompetent leadership in my past job. Got me nowhere.

Ever since I've had the job I have now, I've been "Mr. Can Do". My evaluation is due next month and we'll see how that plays out but I've already been given responsibility for managing a million dollar project and developing departmental strategy. So, it DOES work.

If I had let the attitudes and my own feelings get in the way I'm certain I'd be unemployed or hating life right about now. And don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I'd change about where I work but sometimes it's better to suck it up, eat crow and like it.
 
If/when you're asked about why the job didn't work out, would a reasonable summary would be something like "Things went well until my initial supervisor left, but his replacement and I didn't get along"?

For me, one of the more challenging things about working in the corporate world was when a new boss gets assigned. It happens from time to time, and you have to learn how to work with the new one. It might help your future prospects if you give some thought to how to handle that better in the future.
 
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If/when you're asked about why the job didn't work out, would a reasonable summary would be something like "Things went well until my initial supervisor left, and his replacement and I didn't get along"?

For me, one of the more challenging things about working in the corporate world was when a new boss gets assigned. It happens from time to time, and you have to learn how to work with the new one. It might help your future prospects if you give some thought to how to handle that better in the future.
Personally, I'd avoid the detail. You don't want to come off as resistant to change or that you have a poor opinion of the employer. Going negative during an interview is rarely going to be a positive for you.

Better off to gloss it over and move on. If you don't list it, it won't come up. As I mentioned in the last post, it was short enough that the gap won't even be noticeable.
 
Personally, I'd avoid the detail. You don't want to come off as resistant to change or that you have a poor opinion of the employer. Going negative during an interview is rarely going to be a positive for you.

Better off to gloss it over and move on. If you don't list it, it won't come up. As I mentioned in the last post, it was short enough that the gap won't even be noticeable.

But what should he say if he's asked about it?
 
Exactly, I agree with Skyhog on that one. I had a short stint at a manufacturing company, was about 6 months but definitely my shortest job on the resume. It's too long to leave out and short enough that I get questions about it.

I try to stay positive about it and focus on what I accomplished in that time period. No one likes a whiner.

If they press you on it and why it was so short, you can focus on what you GAINED from the experience. I learned <so and so> about this system, and in the end it wasn't a fit for me. Start going into how much management sucked and how disorganized they were and I guarantee the interviewer will just shut down.
 
But what should he say if he's asked about it?

I relocated to Denver because I like the area. I took a job when I got here that wasn't a good fit for me or the employer and we amicably went separate ways so that I can find the right opportunity, hopefully with you!

Or something similar.

But it matters not. No one is going to ask him about it. Having a few months off around a relocation is a pretty normal thing.
 
I relocated to Denver because I like the area. I took a job when I got here that wasn't a good fit for me or the employer and we amicably went separate ways so that I can find the right opportunity, hopefully with you!

Or something similar.

But it matters not. No one is going to ask him about it. Having a few months off around a relocation is a pretty normal thing.


I would agree as long as he doesn't move back to Shawnee. It might be harder to explain a move and then move back so soon without disclosing the employment issue.
 
I would be concerned about coming across as evasive. It seems to me that giving some thought to what he's learned from it, and how to deal with such situations more constructively in the future, could come in handy if the subject comes up.
 
If you put it on the resume and they ask about it, you're going to tell the story of how it wasn't your fault and how they wronged you by putting you with a bad trainer. It might be enough to send them off in a search to get the "other side of the story"
emphasis added

For an entry level position, that's the end of the story - move on to the next candidate.

OD - you will have to explain this one way or the other. The fact is, it wasn't a good fit for either side. But please avoid the explanation being their fault. Take the whole thing as the learning experience it was and it will soon be a distant memory.
 
Sorry guys, didn't mean to drop that and not explain but I've been busy. The fiancé is in town and we are making the most of our time during her visit.

So in short: original trainer quit, second trainer lined up for another job on the airfield. No classroom training or training materials provided or even updated in years. Second trainer did not want to train and got stuck with me. Compared me to her kid and refused to answer questions after getting put to her after my first trainer because "You should know this by now". She loudly announced that I was "arguing" when asking for clarification since there was seriously no formal training process or standardization. She could not give answers to questions I felt she should know as a trainer.

In the interview process and my first day I was told that there would be a classroom setting to learn the massive amount of info required to do the job. Instead I got thrown on station and was expected to function without knowing who I was talking to or what for and my trainer for the latter half basically shut down and refused to help. The stress built up, I got frustrated at my trainer telling me I was arguing with her when I was asking essential info. We started snapping at each other. I admit I did it but nowhere on the level brought on by my trainer. She compared me to one of her kids and told me "I have one of you at home" and treated me as such.

About 2-3 weeks ago midway through my shift, I started to feel very different, in a bad way. I asked one of my supervisors if I could see a medic. One of the coworkers drove me to the hospital because I felt like my heart was stopping or slowing way down. Turns out I had my first ever panic attack. No history of anxiety.

We had a meeting with the boss and the boss boss and my trainer during the snow storm last week. Long story short my trainer threw me under the bus and despite me trying to show the progress I was making and the effort I was putting forth, I was given an ultimatum - improve or get fired. They told everyone to bring clothes and etc because they didn't plan on anyone leaving with how bad the storm would be. Bosses told me that I wasn't worth the money and they didn't want to pay to keep me overnight in the snow dorms or backup area. "The roads are fine". I live a long way away and fortunately my first trainer who quit invited me to stay at his place. 40 mins to get to work from 5-6 mi away.

I brought up to them at the end of the meeting that she wasn't a good trainer and wasn't giving me what I needed to succeed. It fell on deaf ears. She kept pushing her failure on me and telling them that she has done everything she can. The day after the meeting we had, i just stopped interacting with the trainer and did what I thought would be good and use what little I could did to study with. I did amazing on station that day and the next 5 days.

I thought my improvement was so marked that I'd be in the clear. Meanwhile a night time employee offered to train me because she saw what was happening. She talked to a boss, I was told I would switch to nights to slow down and learn. My trainer went in after me and negated that. I asked my trainer about something, she was uncooperative and accused of arguing, we got pulled aside by a supervisor, management got involved, I asked to go to nights again. They said they would work a training solution. Two days later I was fired. I asked for the time off to spend time with my fiancé who is flying in and it was approved. They fired me the day before so I got to explain to my fiance why I was jobless. I went on a tour to meet all the guards and they all knew my voice and politeness and looked forward to meeting me and then I went to clock out and they fired me. Sorry, stream of consciousness from my phone. I'll refine it later.
Very sorry to hear this. Sounds like you were paired with a supervisor who was deficient and your desire to learn threatened her - She needed to make you look bad or expose her own incompetence.

I'll second what Spike said...crappy airport anyway.
 
Thanks for all the continued responses guys.

Very sorry to hear this. Sounds like you were paired with a supervisor who was deficient and your desire to learn threatened her - She needed to make you look bad or expose her own incompetence.

I'll second what Spike said...crappy airport anyway.

I will admit that I should've stopped asking questions if she was going to announce to the room that I was arguing and I should have switched into good little employee mode especially being in the probationary period. I admit that I did make a couple remarks to my trainer due to frustration and that's unacceptable. Regardless of what they did (and I still feel there is a lot more trouble from her/management than from me), that's what I did and what I can learn from.

The rest just sucks because I really do feel like it was an unfair situation and that even though I was asked to show progress at each week's end and I really did, I was still terminated. They knew I was having problems with her and other people were reporting it to the boss.

Why did they think, after pulling me into a meeting and my trainer telling them how terrible and unmotivated I was, that showing incredible competence on station was due to her in any way? If anything, it should have gone against what she said that I "never studied" and "didn't care". The reason I did so well (and I told the boss this) was I just stopped vocalizing and asking her anything. Even though there was no way to study everything I do on station because they had no updated training materials, I just went with what I thought and said screw the rest. And I did that for about a week and did well. I still had to ask her questions on the side though because I didn't know about every rule and every procedure and they were on the phone and one of those got us going again. I should have just cut it off there and nodded.

I know that now at least. And don't get involved in office politics, and don't bring up shortcomings in the system or training, or in procedure, or in standardization. At least in training and probably beyond that too.
 
I know that now at least. And don't get involved in office politics, and don't bring up shortcomings in the system or training, or in procedure, or in standardization. At least in training and probably beyond that too.

I had a boss like the trainer you explain. I outperformed her in every way, but she got promoted because she played the politics card. She had been there so long and because she was at a higher organizational level than I, the big bosses gave her more clout.

She did the same thing you explain to me in my review actually, down-talked me for not playing nice with her on certain issues, disagreeing, I think she even called it being insubordinate (I'm not in the military). At the end of the meeting I still got an annual increase, but it was like $50 and for the first time in like 5 years, no bonus. All that really stung my pride. I think from that point forward I was just biding my time to get the hell out of there.

Do NOT let them get the best of you and do NOT get discouraged.
 
As an employer, I can say that honesty is not always the best policy on a resumé. I have an application on my desk right now that, under "reason for leaving" they wrote "fired".

Mary and I marveled at it, and moved on.

Like a misspelled word or a childish resume layout, it's best not to give an employer who is looking at dozens of applications a red-flag that will get you tossed on the first pass-through.
 
It is amazing that so many people here manage to stay employed with the "fear" that they show regarding such common things as leaving a job so soon.

I repeat: NO ONE WILL ASK YOU ABOUT A 2 MONTH GAP FOLLOWING RELOCATION. Period. End of story. Even more so when there is no gap, since you don't have another job and you just didn't list the 2 month job on the resume.

05/2010 - 01/2012 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)
01/2012 - 12/2013 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)
01/2014 - 12/2015 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)

Its not like you're going to put 01/2016 - Present: UNEMPLOYED on your resume.

In fact - here's the jist of my resume. Tell me where the gap is, and how noticeable it is:

March 2000 - October 2002: Job 1
November 2002 - June 2003: Job 2
October 2003 - December 2007: Job 3
January 2007 - October 2009: Job 4
October 2009 - February 2013: Job 5
February 2013 - Present: Job 6

Of course - since you're looking for the gap, you see it. But do you know how many times I've been asked about that gap?

Not once. And I've been on tons of interviews, and had a number of jobs since then.
 
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It is amazing that so many people here manage to stay employed with the "fear" that they show regarding such common things as leaving a job so soon.

I repeat: NO ONE WILL ASK YOU ABOUT A 2 MONTH GAP FOLLOWING RELOCATION. Period. End of story. Even more so when there is no gap, since you don't have another job and you just didn't list the 2 month job on the resume.

05/2010 - 01/2012 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)
01/2012 - 12/2013 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)
01/2014 - 12/2015 (JOB BLAH BLAH BLAH)

Its not like you're going to put 01/2016 - Present: UNEMPLOYED on your resume.

In fact - here's the jist of my resume. Tell me where the gap is, and how noticeable it is:

March 2000 - October 2002: Job 1
November 2002 - June 2003: Job 2
October 2003 - December 2007: Job 3
January 2007 - October 2009: Job 4
October 2009 - February 2013: Job 5
February 2013 - Present: Job 6

Of course - since you're looking for the gap, you see it. But do you know how many times I've been asked about that gap?

Not once. And I've been on tons of interviews, and had a number of jobs since then.

Exactly what I was saying. A 2-month stint is a blip in a career and could easily be described as unemployed. Even if he wants to mention that he took a job with DIA and the opportunity didn't work out, that's fine. No reason to go into detail about such an insignificant portion of time (in the big scheme of things) spent at a job.
 
Exactly what I was saying. A 2-month stint is a blip in a career and could easily be described as unemployed. Even if he wants to mention that he took a job with DIA and the opportunity didn't work out, that's fine. No reason to go into detail about such an insignificant portion of time (in the big scheme of things) spent at a job.
Personally, I think it would be a misrepresentation to omit that he ever worked at DIA, especially if he is planning on working in the aviation industry. If a future aviation employer ever found out he did work there and was fired, it could be grounds for immediate firing.

But, that said, I don't think he needs to openly say/advertise he was fired/terminated....etc.

IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) when he originally interviewed for this job, it was a temporary or some kind of set period position in the first place with no relocation pay involved. He was talking about trying to get his foot in the door in airport management/ops.

If that is the case, he could simply say that it was a paid training position and it wasn't working out - funding cuts at the airport were negatively impacting the training available and in the end the airport needed someone who was already trained. Without the funding for the initially offered training program, it was too steep of a learning curve for him to accomplish.

The main point is to try and find a way to turn it around as a learning experience in such a way that doesn't sound like you are bad-mouthing the previous employer no matter how jacked up there were.
 
Personally, I think it would be a misrepresentation to omit that he ever worked at DIA, especially if he is planning on working in the aviation industry. If a future aviation employer ever found out he did work there and was fired, it could be grounds for immediate firing.

But, that said, I don't think he needs to openly say/advertise he was fired/terminated....etc.

IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) when he originally interviewed for this job, it was a temporary or some kind of set period position in the first place with no relocation pay involved. He was talking about trying to get his foot in the door in airport management/ops.

If that is the case, he could simply say that it was a paid training position and it wasn't working out - funding cuts at the airport were negatively impacting the training available and in the end the airport needed someone who was already trained. Without the funding for the initially offered training program, it was too steep of a learning curve for him to accomplish.

The main point is to try and find a way to turn it around as a learning experience in such a way that doesn't sound like you are bad-mouthing the previous employer no matter how jacked up there were.

Are you of the opinion that a resume should include every job that has ever been worked? Its not an application, its a resume.

By that logic, I'd be including my 3-4 month stints at KFC, Grandy's, Philips 66, Pinkerton Security, Octopus Car Wash, IHOP, Pizza Hut, Dominos, and I'm sure others on my resume, despite those jobs being irrelevant and teenage jobs.

Your resume includes what you want it to include, and nothing else. It is a sales document.
 
Personally, I think it would be a misrepresentation to omit that he ever worked at DIA, especially if he is planning on working in the aviation industry. If a future aviation employer ever found out he did work there and was fired, it could be grounds for immediate firing.

But, that said, I don't think he needs to openly say/advertise he was fired/terminated....etc.

IIRC (please correct me if I'm wrong) when he originally interviewed for this job, it was a temporary or some kind of set period position in the first place with no relocation pay involved. He was talking about trying to get his foot in the door in airport management/ops.

If that is the case, he could simply say that it was a paid training position and it wasn't working out - funding cuts at the airport were negatively impacting the training available and in the end the airport needed someone who was already trained. Without the funding for the initially offered training program, it was too steep of a learning curve for him to accomplish.

The main point is to try and find a way to turn it around as a learning experience in such a way that doesn't sound like you are bad-mouthing the previous employer no matter how jacked up there were.

Well that's a straight up lie if I can go on the AAAE job site (or wherever) and see an opening for that position after you just took me that your former employer cut funding.

We're talking a resume. It's a brochure selling you as an employee. You include your highlights. You're not expected to include every detail. Especially if it was only for two months.

It's a different story if a potential employee requires the OP to complete an application that asks for ALL work history for the prior X number of years. Those apps are common for any job requiring a background check. I would highly encourage the OP not to overlook any job in that case.
 
Are you of the opinion that a resume should include every job that has ever been worked? Its not an application, its a resume.

By that logic, I'd be including my 3-4 month stints at KFC, Grandy's, Philips 66, Pinkerton Security, Octopus Car Wash, IHOP, Pizza Hut, Dominos, and I'm sure others on my resume, despite those jobs being irrelevant and teenage jobs.

Your resume includes what you want it to include, and nothing else. It is a sales document.
Depends on the industry. When I apply for an aviation job, I am not listing that I worked for a picture framing shop, an apartment complex, a fire department or every shipping company I sailed with in the merchant marine.

BUT, if you are applying for an airport operations or management job and you omit that you once worked, however briefly, in a related job that it turns out you were fired from......yes, I would not 'omit' that. Because, if they do find out about it, it can definitely be worse.
 
Well that's a straight up lie if I can go on the AAAE job site (or wherever) and see an opening for that position after you just took me that your former employer cut funding.
Unless I misread the OP's explanation, he was offered a job with dedicated classroom training as a part of it. After he was hired, the airport cut out the dedicated training part and he was forced to learn on the job which proved problematic. So they let him go. In other words the airport needed someone already trained - they didn't have the funding to provide the training. That has nothing to do with whether or not the airport puts out a fresh job ad.

So, it is not a lie at all....unless I misunderstood the OP.
 
Unless I misread the OP's explanation, he was offered a job with dedicated classroom training as a part of it. After he was hired, the airport cut out the dedicated training part and he was forced to learn on the job which proved problematic. So they let him go. In other words the airport needed someone already trained - they didn't have the funding to provide the training. That has nothing to do with whether or not the airport puts out a fresh job ad.

So, it is not a lie at all....unless I misunderstood the OP.

Sorry, I'll explain.

During the interview process, it was mentioned that there would be classroom training for the first part of my training. In reality, the training documents were supposed to be updated before I got there. The classes never started and as far as I know never existed. They were not updated in time and were not updated the day I was fired.

They hired one other person with me. We both got full time offers as this whole thing was going on. Two more On-Call positions were hired in after us (39 hours same pay no benefits).
 
l
I know that now at least. And don't get involved in office politics, and don't bring up shortcomings in the system or training, or in procedure, or in standardization. At least in training and probably beyond that too.


I hope you have good luck finding something and can stay in the area, as much as I whine about our population explosion here... We still haven't met! :)

By the way, there does come a day with good fiscal planning and a little luck, where everything is paid off and you can get away with some of the above -- because it's impossible to evict someone from a house they own outright, unless they don't pay the ground lease... cough... property taxes...

My point here is, leave that grousing about bad management to those of us who can afford to lose the job. (There's always a couple at any large company -- making friends with us can get things said to the bosses that the bosses otherwise wouldn't tolerate from anyone else -- they know we could walk out the door whistling and smiling and not even give it a second thought if they pull something extremely stupid.)

It's a lot harder to give even constructive criticism, when they know they have you by the fiscal cojones. The employer/employee relationship is a lot saner when the employee has zero debt. They either want us working for them, or they don't and it's much more even keeled.

Look for nearly-retired old farts that don't need the job and buddy up with them if you really feel a need to vent about something. They'll figure out a way to pass it along without the bosses knowing who it came from, if it's really bad.

Or they'll at least be a sounding board for whether or not you should bring something up.

My total wild-assed guess here: You ran into the "problem child" who makes everyone's life hell if she doesn't get her way, and it's a government gig so it's WAY harder to fire HER than someone on probation. Guess who loses...

The commentary by her about you being just like her teenager also indicates the total insanity allowed at some places. Nobody cares what her personal problems are, but I bet they hear about them all the time anyway. You were just the latest target because you reminded her of her own inability to discipline her own kid? Funny if it weren't so sad. And common.
 
I hope you have good luck finding something and can stay in the area, as much as I whine about our population explosion here... We still haven't met! :)

By the way, there does come a day with good fiscal planning and a little luck, where everything is paid off and you can get away with some of the above -- because it's impossible to evict someone from a house they own outright, unless they don't pay the ground lease... cough... property taxes...

My point here is, leave that grousing about bad management to those of us who can afford to lose the job. (There's always a couple at any large company -- making friends with us can get things said to the bosses that the bosses otherwise wouldn't tolerate from anyone else -- they know we could walk out the door whistling and smiling and not even give it a second thought if they pull something extremely stupid.)

It's a lot harder to give even constructive criticism, when they know they have you by the fiscal cojones. The employer/employee relationship is a lot saner when the employee has zero debt. They either want us working for them, or they don't and it's much more even keeled.

Look for nearly-retired old farts that don't need the job and buddy up with them if you really feel a need to vent about something. They'll figure out a way to pass it along without the bosses knowing who it came from, if it's really bad.

Or they'll at least be a sounding board for whether or not you should bring something up.

My total wild-assed guess here: You ran into the "problem child" who makes everyone's life hell if she doesn't get her way, and it's a government gig so it's WAY harder to fire HER than someone on probation. Guess who loses...

The commentary by her about you being just like her teenager also indicates the total insanity allowed at some places. Nobody cares what her personal problems are, but I bet they hear about them all the time anyway. You were just the latest target because you reminded her of her own inability to discipline her own kid? Funny if it weren't so sad. And common.

I wonder if this is the difference during interviews as well. I have noticed that once I changed my mindset into interviewing the potential employer vs. being interviewed by the employer, I started having a much easier time finding jobs that I enjoy, and stopped being scared over things like having a small gap in my resume...

It is quite nice to not "need" a job to survive. I do still, however, "need" a job to have fun money and live well (gotta keep this belly somehow).
 
Depends on the industry. When I apply for an aviation job, I am not listing that I worked for a picture framing shop, an apartment complex, a fire department or every shipping company I sailed with in the merchant marine.

BUT, if you are applying for an airport operations or management job and you omit that you once worked, however briefly, in a related job that it turns out you were fired from......yes, I would not 'omit' that. Because, if they do find out about it, it can definitely be worse.

In keeping with that, how the hell would a potential employer "find out" outside of a remote chance that they are discussing the candidate with a friend who happened to have worked with him? Also, how relevant is 2-months of experience? In my world, that's right up next to zero in terms of overall worth. I'm sure Overdrive learned some things while he was working at DIA, but I'm not sure it's on such a level as to be considered relevant experience.

It'd be like saying I have experience in inventory management because I ran a forklift for a couple of weeks! HE WAS THERE LESS THAN TWO MONTHS!
 
BUT, if you are applying for an airport operations or management job and you omit that you once worked, however briefly, in a related job that it turns out you were fired from......yes, I would not 'omit' that. Because, if they do find out about it, it can definitely be worse.

What exactly are you scared that they'll find out? That you didn't report every single job in the industry on your resume? Is that even an expectation in the aviation industry? It certainly isn't in any industry in which I've worked so far.

A resume being a sales aid, this would be like McDonalds putting an ad in the newspaper for their Big Mac, but not including a reference to the Quarter Pounder or any other burger because it isn't what they are focusing on selling. Would you boycott the restaurant because they omitted their full menu on the advertisement?
 
Sorry guys, didn't mean to drop that and not explain but I've been busy. The fiancé is in town and we are making the most of our time during her visit.

So in short: original trainer quit, second trainer lined up for another job on the airfield. No classroom training or training materials provided or even updated in years. Second trainer did not want to train and got stuck with me. Compared me to her kid and refused to answer questions after getting put to her after my first trainer because "You should know this by now". She loudly announced that I was "arguing" when asking for clarification since there was seriously no formal training process or standardization. She could not give answers to questions I felt she should know as a trainer.

In the interview process and my first day I was told that there would be a classroom setting to learn the massive amount of info required to do the job. Instead I got thrown on station and was expected to function without knowing who I was talking to or what for and my trainer for the latter half basically shut down and refused to help. The stress built up, I got frustrated at my trainer telling me I was arguing with her when I was asking essential info. We started snapping at each other. I admit I did it but nowhere on the level brought on by my trainer. She compared me to one of her kids and told me "I have one of you at home" and treated me as such.

About 2-3 weeks ago midway through my shift, I started to feel very different, in a bad way. I asked one of my supervisors if I could see a medic. One of the coworkers drove me to the hospital because I felt like my heart was stopping or slowing way down. Turns out I had my first ever panic attack. No history of anxiety.

We had a meeting with the boss and the boss boss and my trainer during the snow storm last week. Long story short my trainer threw me under the bus and despite me trying to show the progress I was making and the effort I was putting forth, I was given an ultimatum - improve or get fired. They told everyone to bring clothes and etc because they didn't plan on anyone leaving with how bad the storm would be. Bosses told me that I wasn't worth the money and they didn't want to pay to keep me overnight in the snow dorms or backup area. "The roads are fine". I live a long way away and fortunately my first trainer who quit invited me to stay at his place. 40 mins to get to work from 5-6 mi away.

I brought up to them at the end of the meeting that she wasn't a good trainer and wasn't giving me what I needed to succeed. It fell on deaf ears. She kept pushing her failure on me and telling them that she has done everything she can. The day after the meeting we had, i just stopped interacting with the trainer and did what I thought would be good and use what little I could did to study with. I did amazing on station that day and the next 5 days.

I thought my improvement was so marked that I'd be in the clear. Meanwhile a night time employee offered to train me because she saw what was happening. She talked to a boss, I was told I would switch to nights to slow down and learn. My trainer went in after me and negated that. I asked my trainer about something, she was uncooperative and accused of arguing, we got pulled aside by a supervisor, management got involved, I asked to go to nights again. They said they would work a training solution. Two days later I was fired. I asked for the time off to spend time with my fiancé who is flying in and it was approved. They fired me the day before so I got to explain to my fiance why I was jobless. I went on a tour to meet all the guards and they all knew my voice and politeness and looked forward to meeting me and then I went to clock out and they fired me. Sorry, stream of consciousness from my phone. I'll refine it later.

It sounds like the trainer was a douchebag. Tough crap for you. I bolded where I think you caused the loss of your job. Typically someone who wants to be fired would do what you did. Since you seem shocked and upset you were fired I thought I would point it out to you.

Basically you were hired to do a job. The first 6 months are very important and your really don't learn a job fully for almost a year. The key here is you were hired to do a job. In other words they pay you to be there. They said they would train you, they were doing that. You didn't like how they were doing it. You should have kept your mouth shut. Your trainer got upset at you. You should have kept your mouth shut. You didn't. You wanted to voice your displeasure. It cost you your job. You should have kept your mouth shut. You are untrained, you need to function in their company, you need to do it their way, generally how you think it should be done is useless to them, they need you to do it their way. You need to keep your mouth shut. I could go on here, but I hope you are getting the point.

And I know you are going to say you were asking questions she couldn't answer or what ever, but it doesn't matter, when she said you were asking stupid questions you should have shut up. Contrary to popular belief there are stupid questions.

You shouldn't have asked for time off to play house with your gf, that was probably the final straw. You weren't doing well, you had only been there a few weeks or months, then you had the balls to ask for days off. Bad move, take a note on that because you shouldn't do that again.

I tell my kids, now adults, all the time, when starting a new job. Go in, look around, listen and keep your mouth shut (are you seeing the trend here?). Don't join in busting someone's chops, don't try to get involved in the politics. Never, and I mean never, bad mouth your boss (or trainer) to anyone. Do this for at least 6 months. If you screw up, own it. If you get yelled at, suck it up, be an adult, take the criticism and move on. When you are established you can loosen up a bit. But it's best to stay out of the politics, at least until you are in a position to influence it (this means a boss or trusted employee, not a 6 month newb still wet behind the ears). And never, I mean never throw your boss under the bus, you will lose.

It sucks, I know, I've had to do it, but that's why they call it work not fun. It's basic survival skills.

I've had to fire many people who thought they were doing well, they weren't. I've fired people for doing what you did, arguing with their boss. That boss is critical to the operation, the people I fired weren't smart enough to know they were expendable.

Tough lessons, it will help to learn them........... or......... go out and start your own thing, not easy to do, but you won't have to put up with douchebags.
 
In keeping with that, how the hell would a potential employer "find out" outside of a remote chance that they are discussing the candidate with a friend who happened to have worked with him?
Lots of ways. HR will probably never notice in the original hiring, but all it takes is something benign like a slip up comment to the wrong person or a coworker you don't get along who is trying to dig up dirt on you or you later fill out a form for something like a security check that asks point blank: 'were you ever fired...' And then there is the Facebook thing, but that is easy to solve.

It's a tough call and he will need to make it. I am just pointing out that there is a risk to omitting it.
 
Lots of ways. HR will probably never notice in the original hiring, but all it takes is something benign like a slip up comment to the wrong person or a coworker you don't get along who is trying to dig up dirt on you or you later fill out a form for something like a security check that asks point blank: 'were you ever fired...' And then there is the Facebook thing, but that is easy to solve.

It's a tough call and he will need to make it. I am just pointing out that there is a risk to omitting it.

Again, you are assuming that a resume and an application are identical. Either that, or you are assuming that one is required to list all jobs on their resume.

If I omitted a job from a resume, and after being hired, were called to ask about the job, I'd simply tell them "Yes, I worked there, I never said I didn't."

But again, no one would ever ask, because there is not an assumption by any employer that a resume is an all-told record of employment.
 
What exactly are you scared that they'll find out? That you didn't report every single job in the industry on your resume? Is that even an expectation in the aviation industry? It certainly isn't in any industry in which I've worked so far.
I'm not scared of anything. In his case, it is possible that they could later find out and consider that he was trying to hide something relevant. How the future employer handles it IF they find out is dependent on a lot of things....industry, employment outlook...etc. Some might say 'no harm, no foul' while others could fire him on the spot. Hard to definitize that across the board because there is so much variation.

As someone who has been doing interview prep in recent months, I am simply relating some concerns that I have come across. Pretending it never happened is certainly the easiest option, but it may not be the best.

A resume being a sales aid, this would be like McDonalds putting an ad in the newspaper for their Big Mac, but not including a reference to the Quarter Pounder or any other burger because it isn't what they are focusing on selling. Would you boycott the restaurant because they omitted their full menu on the advertisement?
Really? That the best you can do? Total analogy fail there Nick. Try again.
 
As an employer, I can say that honesty is not always the best policy on a resumé. I have an application on my desk right now that, under "reason for leaving" they wrote "fired".

Mary and I marveled at it, and moved on.

Like a misspelled word or a childish resume layout, it's best not to give an employer who is looking at dozens of applications a red-flag that will get you tossed on the first pass-through.

Is it normal to put the reason for leaving each job on a resumé?
 
Is it normal to put the reason for leaving each job on a resumé?

No.

Unless the job posting requests it, which I have seen a few times.

It is, however, normal for an application to ask for it.
 
You shouldn't have asked for time off to play house with your gf, that was probably the final straw. You weren't doing well, you had only been there a few weeks or months, then you had the balls to ask for days off. Bad move, take a note on that because you shouldn't do that again.
My schedule was matched to my trainer's schedule - I asked her when her 3 day weekend was and I planned it for that time. I was prepared to work those days regardless because snow or overtime can happen.

When I said 'time off', I meant that when I was pulled into my boss's office regarding the upcoming switch to midnight shifts for training I asked about my fiance visiting the next week and if it was possible to keep that time off. It wasn't going to be a problem because the schedule would remain the same. Sorry if there was any confusion on that - I wouldn't ask for days off of planned training days. My hired counterpart was off for a week or so when we first got there.

The "amazing on station" comment was true, my trainer asked "what happened?" in regards to my change in performance the next day. The bosses saw it too and confirmed that I was improving considerably and to keep it up.

The rest I agree with - I should've kept my mouth shut and just been the perfect employee. My first big job with a bunch of people and I'd never dealt with office politics or unprofessional employees before. I reacted the way I thought was right and it's established that it's not an appropriate attitude to have as a new employee. I know that now.
 
My schedule was matched to my trainer's schedule - I asked her when her 3 day weekend was and I planned it for that time. I was prepared to work those days regardless because snow or overtime can happen.

When I said 'time off', I meant that when I was pulled into my boss's office regarding the upcoming switch to midnight shifts for training I asked about my fiance visiting the next week and if it was possible to keep that time off. It wasn't going to be a problem because the schedule would remain the same. Sorry if there was any confusion on that - I wouldn't ask for days off of planned training days. My hired counterpart was off for a week or so when we first got there.

The "amazing on station" comment was true, my trainer asked "what happened?" in regards to my change in performance the next day. The bosses saw it too and confirmed that I was improving considerably and to keep it up.

The rest I agree with - I should've kept my mouth shut and just been the perfect employee. My first big job with a bunch of people and I'd never dealt with office politics or unprofessional employees before. I reacted the way I thought was right and it's established that it's not an appropriate attitude to have as a new employee. I know that now.

You will be fine, I don't think confidence will be an issue for you. Take a breath, then get looking for a job. I hope you find something quickly.
 
My schedule was matched to my trainer's schedule - I asked her when her 3 day weekend was and I planned it for that time. I was prepared to work those days regardless because snow or overtime can happen.

When I said 'time off', I meant that when I was pulled into my boss's office regarding the upcoming switch to midnight shifts for training I asked about my fiance visiting the next week and if it was possible to keep that time off. It wasn't going to be a problem because the schedule would remain the same. Sorry if there was any confusion on that - I wouldn't ask for days off of planned training days. My hired counterpart was off for a week or so when we first got there.

The "amazing on station" comment was true, my trainer asked "what happened?" in regards to my change in performance the next day. The bosses saw it too and confirmed that I was improving considerably and to keep it up.

The rest I agree with - I should've kept my mouth shut and just been the perfect employee. My first big job with a bunch of people and I'd never dealt with office politics or unprofessional employees before. I reacted the way I thought was right and it's established that it's not an appropriate attitude to have as a new employee. I know that now.

Well, lesson learned.

I agree with all of the points PaulS brought up. I'm a genXer and my generation likes to trash millennials entering the workforce, their expectations, etc. I don't think that's unique to millennials, but understand that the generation ahead of you is looking for reasons to not like you. Don't give them any.

As far as asking off or whatever...unless you're getting married, going to a funeral, or taking time off that was prearranged during your employment-- as far as they're concerned you have no personal life. They don't want to hear about your friends or girlfriend coming into town, or anything. When you have kids, they really don't want to hear about them either (but child care conflicts are inevitable and take precedent over work). Point being, you just don't want to be making "special requests". Think of the first six months as boot camp--you don't want to gain the attention of the drill sergeant for any reason; you'll have your opportunity to make your mark later on.

On the brightside, you got some career development out of the way early. Some folks never learn these lessons their entire career. Good luck.
 
Bossman: 'Overdrive, you are on midnights next week.'
You: 'Yes Sir, anything special I need to know? '

The working world isn't yet very well suited to deal with all the unique snowflakes the schools turn out.
 
Bossman: 'Overdrive, you are on midnights next week.'
You: 'Yes Sir, anything special I need to know? '

The working world isn't yet very well suited to deal with all the unique snowflakes the schools turn out.
Harsh:
But true.
 
Bossman: 'Overdrive, you are on midnights next week.'
You: 'Yes Sir, anything special I need to know? '

The working world isn't yet very well suited to deal with all the unique snowflakes the schools turn out.

The reason I asked him at all was because I had asked him a week before about how I go about doing it. And before the fiance booked the trip. He said that it would be fine since our schedules matched up, and that if it wasn't fine that I could talk to the supervisor and use the PTO I was given. I reassured him that if anything came up (snow/emergency/etc for example) that I would be available.

No intention of being a special snowflake demanding time off or anything, honest. I get the point though.
 
The reason I asked him at all was because I had asked him a week before about how I go about doing it. And before the fiance booked the trip. He said that it would be fine since our schedules matched up, and that if it wasn't fine that I could talk to the supervisor and use the PTO I was given. I reassured him that if anything came up (snow/emergency/etc for example) that I would be available.

No intention of being a special snowflake demanding time off or anything, honest. I get the point though.

I disagree with the old-timers on that one. You can ask for time off, you can ask for clarification, and you can debate certain things. You should be able to stand up for yourself and negotiate. That's why unions are useless now, because workers can do that stuff themselves.

However, you gotta be able to do it politically, and avoid ****ing people off. That's where Nate's advice on using the old-timers to help push stuff where you could be risking your job comes in.

You don't have to be a push-over to stay employed. In fact, not being a "yes-man" is how you get ahead and get promoted, unless you are filling a rote position where just having a warm body is all that is needed. Challenging the status quo is a GREAT skill to have, despite what the pathetic Gen-Xers in attendance may think.
 
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