Happy Unemployment Day

what was op's job description .i just dropped in ,did not see prior post.
 
timwinters said:
No, actually, if we ever crossed paths I can foresee me buying you a beer and the two of us sitting down and discussing like adults what constitutes civil discourse on this forum and all the other world's problems.

Rolling around in the dirt is how 12 year-olds settle conflict.
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I need to start some s**t with Tim.
He offers to buy a beer to everyone that bags on him.

Tim, you suck and if I ever see you (say at Gastons in October) We're gonna throw down!


Overdrive, sorry to hear about your situation.
Move on to the next gig and if times get rough remember this episode and you will know you've moved to a better situation. This just sucks

And if you ever run out of Beer money, just threaten to beat the s**t out of Tim. :yes:
 
MtnMarcus said:
Pretty sure we'll be rolling around in the dirt if we ever cross paths....
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What are you, like 13?

Because I'm pretty sure I learned at about 14 that kicking someone's ass is about the least effective way to deal with conflict. I learned that giving them a beer and explaining why they're being a dick is much more effective.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I need to start some s**t with Tim.
He offers to buy a beer to everyone that bags on him.

Tim, you suck and if I ever see you (say at Gastons in October) We're gonna throw down!
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Watch it now! You're going to have MotoFlyer accusing us of being butt buddies again! :yesnod:

:rolleyes2:
 
denverpilot said:
...someone has an unprofessional personal problem and wants to target you, until they go target someone else.

And they always do. They're unhappy people who have to make someone else look bad to get through their day. That's just who they are. You just learn not to engage with them, with practice. The more you can shrug and smile the faster others see they're just out to get you personally and they start figuring out how to separate them from you.
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That is true. My first job out of college my supervisor was not somebody I would wish on anybody. As I found out later, every year he had one of the new engineers as his target. I was the "lucky" one that year. And I didn't know how to deal with it and didn't take it well. It worked out well in the end when I transferred to a different command on the yard, to a large degree because one of the engineers there on the interview team knew this guy and I didn't have to say a word. :yes:

denverpilot said:
Careful how you characterize the DIA gig when talking to other folks in town. Eight million people but Denver is still cow-town with way too few folks to not have everyone know everyone in various industries. All the airport types rub noses at the same conferences and stuff. Be Mr. Polite and say nothing bad about anyone at DIA to anyone. Too many Metro grads who all know each other from "way back" who never left town and swap jobs here until they finally get out of cow-town. :)
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Not just in Denver. Whenever you resign from a position to take another one, word that resignation letter carefully. Don't burn bridges. I've even had people comment on mine saying that I didn't even scorch the timbers. Each specialty is typically a small world and everyone knows everyone, so be careful there. I know that isn't a concern right now, but the advice above is golden.

Best of luck.
 
overdrive148 said:
The reason they gave me was this:

"Difficulties related to multitasking, situational awareness, organizational skills, and a general disrespectful attitude towards your trainer and the training process - including responsibility for errors you have made".

That is a load of BS and I disagree with it. It is non-negotiable and since it was during a probationary period, I have no options or recourse.
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To be blunt, yes the probationary period is when you can fire someone for not being a good fit, without having to give a good reason. It can be very expensive to fire someone after the probationary period, even if they have a chronic record of job performance issues.

Blame the probationary period paranoia on lawyers and the legal system.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Sounds like the bullsh*t I had to deal with at ATL. Very, very poor training "program."

In fact, it sounds extremely familiar to what I had to deal with. Toxic environment. I didn't really "fit in" with most of the other employees, either.
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The co-workers were actually pretty great except for one or two. I never had problems with them, just with my trainer. Now that I think about it, they didn’t have any designated trainers and no “day 1: geography, day 2: operations personnel, day 3: etc etc”. It was very cobbled together and it felt completely without guidelines or standardization. I had a total of 3 people to train with, the guy hired at the same time as me kept the first. He passed his checkride last week as I got terminated.



Ghery said:
That is true. My first job out of college my supervisor was not somebody I would wish on anybody. As I found out later, every year he had one of the new engineers as his target. I was the "lucky" one that year. And I didn't know how to deal with it and didn't take it well. It worked out well in the end when I transferred to a different command on the yard, to a large degree because one of the engineers there on the interview team knew this guy and I didn't have to say a word.

Not just in Denver. Whenever you resign from a position to take another one, word that resignation letter carefully. Don't burn bridges. I've even had people comment on mine saying that I didn't even scorch the timbers. Each specialty is typically a small world and everyone knows everyone, so be careful there. I know that isn't a concern right now, but the advice above is golden.

Best of luck.
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I was tempted to jump in when they asked me if I had anything to say as they handed me the termination notice with the boss, boss boss, and HR sitting there and just rail on them about how their program was terrible and that they didn’t try to accommodate me or change me over to another trainer despite multiple people (at least 3) going to the bosses and bringing up her behavior.



I realized it wouldn’t bring my job back and that the words were lost on them. So I said no and left. They took my badge and the boss walked with me to my car (10 min walk) and we said nothing that whole time. I gave him my parking permit and he said “Okay” and then left immediately. No “thanks”, no “good luck”, just “okay”.



SixPapaCharlie said:
Overdrive, sorry to hear about your situation.
Move on to the next gig and if times get rough remember this episode and you will know you've moved to a better situation. This just sucks

And if you ever run out of Beer money, just threaten to beat the s**t out of Tim.
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Thank you sir!
Hey Tim laser lips, your momma was a snowblower!

hotprops said:
what was op's job description .i just dropped in ,did not see prior post.
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W1wTLSl.png


denverpilot said:
Careful how you characterize the DIA gig when talking to other folks in town. Eight million people but Denver is still cow-town with way too few folks to not have everyone know everyone in various industries. All the airport types rub noses at the same conferences and stuff. Be Mr. Polite and say nothing bad about anyone at DIA to anyone. Too many Metro grads who all know each other from "way back" who never left town and swap jobs here until they finally get out of cow-town.
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Great advice that I will take to heart. I honestly felt like I wasn’t even arguing, just asking questions. I know now that just shutting up or going into ‘good employee mode’ is the better option. Learn the job, get past the initial period, and move on.
 
Also, DenverPilot's post reminds me. Do you guys think I should include DIA on my resume? I did a lot of awesome stuff there that I could really boost my resume with, even though it was a short time of just over 2 months. But then I'd have to explain what happened and I don't know if I can come up with a way to do that nicely or cleanly.

My initial resume that I used to apply to DIA was pretty light. I feel like it'd be better and more impressive with DIA on it. I have two or three references from my job of people that knew what was happening and supported me through it.

I have heard that it could be detrimental to put it on my resume. Hmm.
 
dell30rb said:
To be blunt, yes the probationary period is when you can fire someone for not being a good fit, without having to give a good reason. It can be very expensive to fire someone after the probationary period, even if they have a chronic record of job performance issues.



Blame the probationary period paranoia on lawyers and the legal system.
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Can't remember the company, but I read about one company that offered a $1000 severance package to anyone who would leave before their probation period was up.

When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
 
Putting DIA on your resume, as you currently relate the experience, would be a Red Flag to me.

But so is a gap in employment.
 
overdrive148 said:
Also, DenverPilot's post reminds me. Do you guys think I should include DIA on my resume? I did a lot of awesome stuff there that I could really boost my resume with, even though it was a short time of just over 2 months. But then I'd have to explain what happened and I don't know if I can come up with a way to do that nicely or cleanly.

My initial resume that I used to apply to DIA was pretty light. I feel like it'd be better and more impressive with DIA on it. I have two or three references from my job of people that knew what was happening and supported me through it.

I have heard that it could be detrimental to put it on my resume. Hmm.
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How long were you there? If it's less than 6 months, I'd be inclined not to, unless you had a really good reason otherwise. I can't remember, was the original position technically considered temporary? That might be the only reason I'd keep it on there, if you could legitimately say it was a temporary position (albeit one that you were involuntarily excused from). Otherwise there's a lot red potential red flags for a future employer and or some careful explaining on your part.

I'd also say it depends on the job you're applying for as well.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Putting DIA on your resume, as you currently relate the experience, would be a Red Flag to me.

But so is a gap in employment.
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Brad Z said:
How long were you there? If it's less than 6 months, I'd be inclined not to, unless you had a really good reason otherwise. I can't remember, was the original position technically considered temporary? That might be the only reason I'd keep it on there, if you could legitimately say it was a temporary position (albeit one that you were involuntarily excused from). Otherwise there's a lot red potential red flags for a future employer and or some careful explaining on your part.
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Just over 2 months.

The original position was for OnCall 39 hours a week until a slot opened up and that they would promote me if it was a fit for the company. They offered me full time and I accepted. Very risky business.
 
2months? I'd just move on with my life as though DIA never existed...
 
flhrci said:
I agree. That is why I did not pursue it in my post. Still want to know the secrets of DIA though! :D He probably had to sign a non-disclosure agreement though.

David
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If you can't reach the urinals why would have reason to go down there?:rofl:
 
Brad Z said:
How long were you there? If it's less than 6 months, I'd be inclined not to, unless you had a really good reason otherwise. I can't remember, was the original position technically considered temporary? That might be the only reason I'd keep it on there, if you could legitimately say it was a temporary position (albeit one that you were involuntarily excused from). Otherwise there's a lot red potential red flags for a future employer and or some careful explaining on your part.

I'd also say it depends on the job you're applying for as well.
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The other side of the coin would be the worry of wondering what would happen if the omission was discovered. It's a small world.
 
Everskyward said:
The other side of the coin would be the worry of wondering what would happen if the omission was discovered. It's a small world.
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Reminds me...

There's the resume.
Then there's the application/background check that asks for employment history for past X years.
 
Everskyward said:
The other side of the coin would be the worry of wondering what would happen if the omission was discovered. It's a small world.
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What do you mean? There's no requirement to document every job ever held on your resume. You may have to explain the gap, but that either way the OP will have explaining to do. A short gap is easier to deal with than trying to explain why a job in one's career field only lasted for two months.

I doubt the OP would have to worry about airport authorities talking to each other about comings and goings of people at his level. Unless his trainer leaves to go work for another airport that he applies to work for, it's unlikely anyone will ever know he worked at DIA unless they ask outright (or he volunteers the info).

The OP is probably best off getting another ramp job ASAP and then the two month gap will go largely unnoticed later on. I don't think an employer for a job like that would be as critical of gaps as say an airport authority hiring for an operations position.

Another alternative is to enroll in some classes towards a degree and later explain the gap as "going back to school"...always a useful one for the younger folks.
 
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Everskyward said:
The other side of the coin would be the worry of wondering what would happen if the omission was discovered. It's a small world.
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If it's discovered (unlikely), then address at that time. A 2-month stint at a position which didn't pan out isn't likely to raise much ire unless there was a major infraction that caused the dismissal. If he states calmly/concisely that he did not receive the training he was promised and had irreconcilable differences with the person with whom was supposed to be training him, I doubt there would be too much further digging. It's one of those things that, if it comes up in an interview, it's best to address it succinctly and not to add any emotion or major details. If he dismisses it as a position that simply did not work out after a short trial period, the interviewer won't likely press it at this career-level.
 
SoonerAviator said:
If it's discovered (unlikely), then address at that time. A 2-month stint at a position which didn't pan out isn't likely to raise much ire unless there was a major infraction that caused the dismissal. If he states calmly/concisely that he did not receive the training he was promised and had irreconcilable differences with the person with whom was supposed to be training him, I doubt there would be too much further digging. It's one of those things that, if it comes up in an interview, it's best to address it succinctly and not to add any emotion or major details. If he dismisses it as a position that simply did not work out after a short trial period, the interviewer won't likely press it at this career-level.
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The omission may be more of a big deal than the reason for the dismissal. Just sayin'...
 
Move on, don't put it on the resume, file for unemployment, get another position.

I once took a year off after a lay off in the early 90's and the economy was sucking in SoCal, when asked, " I traveled and did volunteer work". Which is pretty much what I did.

After you next gig, and a year it won't matter to anyone.
 
Was this your first corporate job?

Sometimes it takes a couple of tries until you can find a job where the company will adapt to you.
 
weilke said:
Was this your first corporate job?

Sometimes it takes a couple of tries until you can find a job where the company will adapt to you.
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Really my first major job I think. DIA is way bigger than Shawnee and it was the most money I've ever made per hour at a full time job.

I'm still not sure whether to add it or keep it off and just apply as usual. The references from DIA who are willing to support me would look strange on their own and if they called them asking how they know me and I don't put DIA down on the resume, that could cause some confusion. Might be better to just put it on and be short and honest with the interviewer.
 
overdrive148 said:
Really my first major job I think. DIA is way bigger than Shawnee and it was the most money I've ever made per hour at a full time job.

I'm still not sure whether to add it or keep it off and just apply as usual. The references from DIA who are willing to support me would look strange on their own and if they called them asking how they know me and I don't put DIA down on the resume, that could cause some confusion. Might be better to just put it on and be short and honest with the interviewer.
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I'd leave it off.
I have a handful of little gigs here and there that I have walked into and left. They don't make the resume if they are under a year in length.

Interviewer: "Whats this gap here?"

Your response options:

"had to take some time off to deal with a sick family member"

"Moved out of state to be with my fiance. Took a bit of time to find the right fit"

"One word: Cocaine"

"Did freelance work on the side flying sick babies out of Africa"

"I started a metal band "MILF with Herpes" but we weren't that good. Sometimes it takes more than just a great name"

"Took time off to go on a missions trip"

"I got sucked into the engine of a 737 and had to take a couple months off to heal. And it was another couple months to get all the stitches out. It was a lot of f*****g stitches"


Also anything you did at the new gig that might sound valuable gets applied to the description at the prior employer.
 
overdrive148 said:
Really my first major job I think. DIA is way bigger than Shawnee and it was the most money I've ever made per hour at a full time job.

I'm still not sure whether to add it or keep it off and just apply as usual. The references from DIA who are willing to support me would look strange on their own and if they called them asking how they know me and I don't put DIA down on the resume, that could cause some confusion. Might be better to just put it on and be short and honest with the interviewer.
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I would put it on the resume and not worry about it.

Once I left a flying job after two months. At my next interview I was asked about the short term.

I told them I still believe that it is a good company and I would recommend them to anyone asking, but I just felt that I was not the best for the company and that the company was not the best for me, then I stopped talking. Enough said because there were no more questions about it.

Before I started flying I was fired from more than one job, and one job I was fired 5 times but they kept asking me back with more pay.
 
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overdrive148 said:
...Might be better to just put it on and be short and honest with the interviewer.
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One advantage of putting it on is that you don't have to worry about explaining why you left it off. One advantage of being honest is that you don't have to worry about remembering what your story is.

Disclaimer: I don't think I'm qualified to give advice, because I've been out of the job market since 1999.
 
My concern with him including it is it's his only experience in the "industry" (I'm presuming the OP's career interests are airport ops). If I were hiring for an entry level position, I'd probably go with the one who had no industry experience but a decent work ethic, as opposed to someone else who had a similar job as the one I'm filling but only lasted 2 months with a vague explanation of why it didn't work out. It's easier to explain the two month gap (I relocated to be with my fiancé is not a lie). I know he's scratching to include relevant work experience on his Rez but I'm just not sure you can really say you accomplished much in a job if you technically never made it out of training.
 
There is no reason to put it on a resume, period. A resume is not intended to include everything you ever did. That is what the interview is for.

You can put the skills you learned in your summary section if you have one. Unless your next job specifically says you are expected to list every job, there is neither a requirement or an expectation to do so.

As for the gap, you relocated. I doubt anyone would even bat an eye at that gap. Don't lie, but be creative if asked about it.

"I really like Colorado and decided to relocate here. I took a job that wound up not being a good fit for me or the employer, so we amicably parted ways to allow me to find the right fit, hopefully with you!"
 
SkyHog said:
There is no reason to put it on a resume, period. A resume is not intended to include everything you ever did. That is what the interview is for.



You can put the skills you learned in your summary section if you have one. Unless your next job specifically says you are expected to list every job, there is neither a requirement or an expectation to do so.



As for the gap, you relocated. I doubt anyone would even bat an eye at that gap. Don't lie, but be creative if asked about it.



"I really like Colorado and decided to relocate here. I took a job that wound up not being a good fit for me or the employer, so we amicably parted ways to allow me to find the right fit, hopefully with you!"
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This.
 
Whether you put it on or not, be honest. Don't lie if asked about it. I can deal with less than favorable honest answers a lot better than I can deal with something that I find out is a misrepresentation. Trust is extremely important.
 
If you put it on the resume and they ask about it, you're going to tell the story of how it wasn't your fault and how they wronged you by putting you with a bad trainer. It might be enough to send them off in a search to get the "other side of the story"
 
EppyGA said:
If you put it on the resume and they ask about it, you're going to tell the story of how it wasn't your fault and how they wronged you by putting you with a bad trainer. It might be enough to send them off in a search to get the "other side of the story"
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:wink2:

Because you really have to put effort into hiring entry level staff.
 
EppyGA said:
If you put it on the resume and they ask about it, you're going to tell the story of how it wasn't your fault and how they wronged you by putting you with a bad trainer. It might be enough to send them off in a search to get the "other side of the story"
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What os the line in Shawshank Redemption? "Don'tcha you know? Everyone in prison is innocent."

Everybody that gets fired is because of the fault of the company......

9/10 who blame the company are liars, in my experience. The other 1/10 gets tossed in as guilty by association.

Hopefully this is a good learning opportunity for the OP when he gets his next job. During probation/ trial, your number 1 job is to be likable.
 
The saying is "cooperate and graduate". This may be unfortunate but it's true.
 
Nothing wrong with putting it on the resume if it counts as experience. Part of the experience is honestly being able to say, "Things didn't work out the way either side had hoped." The interviewer will probably only be able to hear your side of the story anyway, even if they call your former employer they may be legally limited in what they can say about your service time. Many places, when called to confirm employment history, will only say, "Yeah, he started on xxx and left on yyy."
 
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