Hangar access

painless

painless

Line Up and Wait
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Feb 15, 2009
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521
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Peshtigo, WI
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Display name:
Jeff Orear
this is a question for hangar owners. Does your lease agreement have a clause where the airport commission requires tenants that own their hangars provide a key to the hangar to the commission?

Our airport, KMNM is going through some real rough ownership transition problems and is requiring all tenants to sign a new lease. This requirement is one new twist, including only offering 10 year leases. The airport claims it is in case of an emergency. They also have written in that they have the right to inspect contents of the hangar, and assure us that we would be informed and that we would have the right to be present. Thing is, I don’t trust that to be true at all. The only emergency I can imagine that anyone would need to get into my hangar is a fire. Access is called a fireman with an axe.

Again, these are hangars that are owned, not rented. Just curious if other experiences.
 
painless said:
They also have written in that they have the right to inspect contents of the hangar, and assure us that we would be informed and that we would have the right to be present.
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If it's not written into the contract, their "assurance" is worth exactly nothing.
 
I owned at KUGN and it was a requirement. One thing they used it for was annual fire department inspections. It came in handy for me once when I drove 30 min to get there and don't have my hangar key.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
N3368K said:
Just give them an old house key and see if they even try it. If they do and say it won't work, obviously, they lied...
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It’s possible I gave them a duplicate that I never got to work just for that reason. But you didn’t hear that here.....
 
Back when I renting a hangar, all the locks were master keyed so that the airport could get in there anyhow.

Nobody has a key to my hangar now (though a few of my neighbors know the combination to the "people door"). Fewer know the alarm code.
 
N3368K said:
Just give them an old house key and see if they even try it. If they do and say it won't work, obviously, they lied...
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LMAO. When I lost my Uncle, my Cousin and I changed the locks because we didn't know how many people had keys. My sometimes nosey Grandmother was very mad, saying she wasn't going to go into the house and mess with anything, but she was very angry with us. I laughed and asked, "How do you know we changed the lock then?" :)

As far as the hangar goes, I rent my hangar and if you ask me, I don't like them having a key. I'm not the only one who suspects a city employee may have burglarized our hangars using a master key.
 
A while back when I was in the T hangars at CJR I slid my door open (the design is such that mine slide inside of my neighbor's hangar and his slide outside of mine). I hear a crash. Didn't want to push my door open any further. That doesn't sound good. Went over to the FBO and got the master. Apparently, he left a bicycle leaning up on the inside of the hangar doors and I knocked it over. Glad it wasn't more serious.
 
I haven't even had a lease agreement for the past 9 years I've been renting my hangar.
 
painless said:
this is a question for hangar owners. Does your lease agreement have a clause where the airport commission requires tenants that own their hangars provide a key to the hangar to the commission?

Our airport, KMNM is going through some real rough ownership transition problems and is requiring all tenants to sign a new lease. This requirement is one new twist, including only offering 10 year leases. The airport claims it is in case of an emergency. They also have written in that they have the right to inspect contents of the hangar, and assure us that we would be informed and that we would have the right to be present. Thing is, I don’t trust that to be true at all. The only emergency I can imagine that anyone would need to get into my hangar is a fire. Access is called a fireman with an axe.

Again, these are hangars that are owned, not rented. Just curious if other experiences.
Click to expand...
What does the fire codes say, does the local fire company require access to inspect..? It may be a insurance thing too. the airport may not be able to get insurance if the inspection does not occur.
 
geez.....every airport manager has a set of bolt cutters. Problem solved. o_O
 
Insurance shouldn’t be an issue. $500,000 liability policy is also a requirement of the lease. Never have had a fire inspection on the 15+ Year’s I’ve owned the hangar either.

Comment was made that the airport may need a key for any fire inspections going forward. If that’s the case, they have my phone number. Since I am the owner of the structure, *I* can let them in.

My hangar is a real basic pole building. You can see it behind my airplane in my avatar. Slide-by doors. One swing with an axe and you’re in.
 
painless said:
this is a question for hangar owners. Does your lease agreement have a clause where the airport commission requires tenants that own their hangars provide a key to the hangar to the commission?

Our airport, KMNM is going through some real rough ownership transition problems and is requiring all tenants to sign a new lease. This requirement is one new twist, including only offering 10 year leases. The airport claims it is in case of an emergency. They also have written in that they have the right to inspect contents of the hangar, and assure us that we would be informed and that we would have the right to be present. Thing is, I don’t trust that to be true at all. The only emergency I can imagine that anyone would need to get into my hangar is a fire. Access is called a fireman with an axe.

Again, these are hangars that are owned, not rented. Just curious if other experiences.
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I don't know if it's in the Lease or not, but they have a key and it has come in handy for me. It's one of those long term, prepaid, renewable by lessee ones, I'm good for about 150 years so in effect I own it. I have pieces of my dead airplane in there and two renters with airplanes. I'm a thousand or so miles away about half of the year so the Airport having access has been good. Once a renter lost his key and was able to get in and go flying and get a key made. They contacted me first of course. And once I needed some one to go in and get some of my parts.
 
Likely not a popular post with some, but here it is..

I have a few rental properties, and always have a key to each one.
Periodic inspections usually reveal some sort of issue the tenants "were going to tell me about", as well as trigger some preventive action that staves off other issues.
Also a few that I would never have been told about, like their drug stashes, secret pets, extra tenants, 7 kid tearing apart the house 'cuz they need the money' baby sitting service, designated smoking areas, and so on.
My father correctly told me many years ago that people will do any damn thing.

If I were leasing hangars, there would be periodic inspections, and I wouldn't care who liked it or who didn't. They can sign another lease elsewhere.
All renters would be strongly encouraged (possibly required) to take part in the inspection.
And hopefully willing to share in a beverage whilst running through the checklist.
 
Game trail camera inside the hangar looking at the walk through door......
 
Skyrys62 said:
Likely not a popular post with some, but here it is..

I have a few rental properties, and always have a key to each one.
Periodic inspections usually reveal some sort of issue the tenants "were going to tell me about", as well as trigger some preventive action that staves off other issues.
Also a few that I would never have been told about, like their drug stashes, secret pets, extra tenants, 7 kid tearing apart the house 'cuz they need the money' baby sitting service, designated smoking areas, and so on.
My father correctly told me many years ago that people will do any damn thing.

If I were leasing hangars, there would be periodic inspections, and I wouldn't care who liked it or who didn't. They can sign another lease elsewhere.
All renters would be strongly encouraged (possibly required) to take part in the inspection.
And hopefully willing to share in a beverage whilst running through the checklist.
Click to expand...


I can certainly understand your position from the standpoint that *you* are the owner of the structure. I also understand to a degree if I were a *renter* of a hangar.

But this is a case of *owners* of hangars being requested keys. Just doesn’t sit well.
 
The fire marshal makes periodic visits to my hangar, and the (airport supplied) fire extinguisher gets inspected.

Then there was the time that they needed to run some cables through my hangar - turns out that "they" were feds and they were set up in the hangar next door with what looked like an antenna of some kind mounted behind the window in the door.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
geez.....every airport manager has a set of bolt cutters. Problem solved. o_O
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I was locked out of my hangar once. Airport had lost their key and my IA left my key inside the hangar after doing an annual inspection. I rented a huge bolt cutter...it wouldn't touch the hardened shackle on the padlock. Ended up lugging my oxy-acetylene torch and tanks out there and cutting the damn thing off. New lock has six keys.
 
If it is for the Fire Department, including Fire Marshall access, install a Knox Box with key like many retail stores are required. FD has master key. If it is for airport inspector or insurance, those should be scheduled well ahead of time you can schedule to be there and let them in.

My old hangar had a hasp and I used a combination lock. I have the combination to the idiot also known as the airport manager and then changed the combination. Current home has a heavy duty security lock which would require a torch. It is also alarmed so no one is going in without contacting me or my hangar-mate first...or they will soon have the police asking why they are in our hangar.
 
When is the end date on your existing lease?
If in the distant future, I don't think they can change existing lease ( read your fine print)
 
First thing I did when I bought my hanger was get a new locking knob and dead bolt. No one has my key but my family. They told me when I bought it that the FBO and at least one of the maintenance shops on the field had a copy (like it was a bonus).
 
Skyrys62 said:
Likely not a popular post with some, but here it is..

I have a few rental properties, and always have a key to each one.
Periodic inspections usually reveal some sort of issue the tenants "were going to tell me about", as well as trigger some preventive action that staves off other issues.
Also a few that I would never have been told about, like their drug stashes, secret pets, extra tenants, 7 kid tearing apart the house 'cuz they need the money' baby sitting service, designated smoking areas, and so on.
My father correctly told me many years ago that people will do any damn thing.

If I were leasing hangars, there would be periodic inspections, and I wouldn't care who liked it or who didn't. They can sign another lease elsewhere.
All renters would be strongly encouraged (possibly required) to take part in the inspection.
And hopefully willing to share in a beverage whilst running through the checklist.
Click to expand...

Not unpopular, just irrelevant

Different demographic, different product, different contents, different use.
 
I think the 10 year term would bother me more, depending on what's permitted in terms of subleasing (and what might happen if you get a plane with bigger wingspan).
 
Yup...my airport manager has a key to each hangar. City owned airport. They will do an annual inspection as will as service all our fire extinguishers annually for free. They are also very good about advising tenants when and if they are gonna enter the hangar for maintenance or anything else and give you the option to be present if desired.

...and just re-read the part about owned, not rented. I am rented.
 
Shawn said:
Yup...my airport manager has a key to each hangar. City owned airport. They will do an annual inspection as will as service all our fire extinguishers annually for free. They are also very good about advising tenants when and if they are gonna enter the hangar for maintenance or anything else and give you the option to be present if desired.

...and just re-read the part about owned, not rented. I am rented.
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Do they log N numbers?

Mine is only entered for the fire extinguisher check, and I'm advised, or if I ask them to fix something, my N number shows up no where, nor any listing of the contents of my hangar or any other security threats.
 
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Badger said:
When is the end date on your existing lease?
If in the distant future, I don't think they can change existing lease ( read your fine print)
Click to expand...

And that is the rub.

I signed a new lease about 5 years ago. Twenty year, no key BS. Fast forward to last year. My airport *was* called the Twin County Airport, being owned and operated by Marinette county in Wisconsin, and Menominee county in Michigan. What, you say? There’s a big lake between them! This is the boarder between Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, eh.

The two counties have run the airport this way for decades, until Marinette county got their noses out of joint and took their marbles home. So now the airport is called Memonimee Regional Airport.

The, well, I’ll leave my opion private, governing board of Menominee county has it in their diminutive heads (ooops) that a new lease must be signed specifically for the “new” airport. Seems to me, and other tenants on the airport are arguing, that a lease is binding regardless of transfer of ownership.

The county gave a deadline to sign the new lease which was Tuesday. Of the 34 hangars on the grounds, 5 made the deadline. Pilot/owners have lawyered up. Now the county has sent out letters of intent to evict. Again, these are owners of hangars, not renters.

There are other issues going on “under new management” that are jaw-dropping. An example is no access to the terminal building after hours via CTAF code, something that has been available for years. Question was raised about transient pilots needing a restroom. Answer? Porta potty. Welcome to Menominee, especially in the dead of winter.

So what would it cost to move a 40x60 pole barn type hangar???
 
If the airport accepts federal grants, they make assurances that the airport will be operated along certain guidelines. Among them is that airport property and facilities will be used for aviation purposes first, with non aviation acceptable only if that user is kicked out if aviation demand warrants. Under those conditions, airports are required to make sure hangars have airplanes, not car collections or boats.

I was once with an airport manager and an FAA inspector doing just that when we came across some fellows filling a hangar with a truckload of church pews. Soon they were unfilling the hangar.
 
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