Razorxp
Pre-Flight
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...orphine-system-during-plane-crash/1049801001/
Scary he was flying with all that in system.
Scary he was flying with all that in system.
You are right but drugs will be what keeps icon from paying a big settlement to the surviving family.Lol, you guys know what?
Spoiler alert
It wasn't drugs that got him killed.
Especially because a post-mortem .01 is not a sign that he inbibed at all. That's down in the noise of things that happen in a decaying body.Well 0.01 is a non issue.
Was it the crash....??
You are right but drugs will be what keeps icon from paying a big settlement to the surviving family.
Don't forget, our laboratory technology has risen to the level that we have the ability to detect miniscule amounts of drugs now.
So finding a drug does not necessarily equate to recent consumption nor especially, impairment.
They can probably find that last molecule of ethanol attached to only one of your billion liver cells, 2 months after your last drink.
Some are saying it is time these tox reports be accompanied by guidelines, so that the average reader is not misled by them.
Ie: "The samples contained 1 part per quadrillion of benadryl. The levels in the average person's tissues, one week after consuming the label dose of benadryl is 500ppm"
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/01/icon-a5-n922ba-registered-to-n529pg-llc.html
His blood levels for some of the drugs looked ridiculously high to me. It is my layman opinion that he should not have been flying.
Is it erroneous that adding guidelines to the reports, suggesting whether a particular substance was likely a factor would be useful to the casual reader?
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/01/icon-a5-n922ba-registered-to-n529pg-llc.html
His blood levels for some of the drugs looked ridiculously high to me. It is my layman opinion that he should not have been flying.
True, and we all know that being stoned out of your gord has no effect on decision-making.Lol, decision making skills and lack of experience would be my bet
the report from the outside lab (NMS) actually provides reference ranges and comments of what ingestion amounts are required to explain the observed serum levels.
Is it erroneous that adding guidelines to the reports, suggesting whether a particular substance was likely a factor would be useful to the casual reader?
(Right now all I see are xx drug found at yy level. None have that. Many of the ethanol reports do not even mention that etoh is produced during normal decomposition of a corpse.)
It's simply misleading to put the lab findings in without a scale or guideline. "Indicates consumption of the medication in the last week but levels below that considered to impair by most state highway laws."
Here. It's like seeing in a report "Had a tiff with boss at work that day" or "mistress did not show last night" - the first thing a non-discerning reader will say is that the boss's tiff etc was a factor or worse, the cause. When there is no evidence to that fact.
Don't take this and run, thinking I am in favor of drugs in the cockpit, that would be a typical and very erroneous internet fail.
We just need better info in accident reports to help us know what the cause was. Right now, every pilot out there is thinking I won't Halliday it because I don't do drugs. WRONG!
Thank you for posting. I am glad to hear they are not just posting numbers anymore - which amounts to innuendo - and are posting 'what this means'.
So the NTSB is responsible for gathering facts and reaching a probable cause. They're not in the 'what this means' business other than support for the probable cause. It's up to others (quite frequently unelected bureaucrats and politicians) to determine what this means.Thank you for posting. I am glad to hear they are not just posting numbers anymore - which amounts to innuendo - and are posting 'what this means'.
True, and we all know that being stoned out of your gord has no effect on decision-making.
So the NTSB is responsible for gathering facts and reaching a probable cause. They're not in the 'what this means' business other than support for the probable cause. It's up to others (quite frequently unelected bureaucrats and politicians) to determine what this means.
An ME might ask a lab or expert 'what this means' but that may or may not be published. They will work against published standards - 'reference ranges' that you'd see on a medical lab report are the lab's range based on some kind of medical consensus which may or may not apply to the person/case at hand.i have had doctors look at a lab report, see that a particular value was 0.5 (unit of measurement) into the 'high' range and want to start treatment rather than confirming the result (and I've seen the confirming tests show well within range to almost ideal numbers). Too many factors affect the outcome to not do a second confirming test on a borderline reading.
Anecdotal example there. Some assays have normal reference ranges so small that a 0.5 (unit) deviation from normal can be dangerous. Depending on the treatment it may be far more negligent to wait for a new specimen to be tested and resulted than it is to treat now. Healthcare is not nearly as simple as some politicians will tell you. It can kill you.
You are right but drugs will be what keeps icon from paying a big settlement to the surviving family.
Is A1c like that? Last spring mine was 6.3 and my doctor was getting all excited and about to unholster her prescription pad and I said, "Whoa there! Why don't I just stop eating three dozen cookies a day?" And I did and three months later it was 5.8. That's only a .5 unit difference but seems to be a big deal.
<clip> safety shouldn't be (in my mind) anyone's "goal" - living fully ranks a lot higher.
I think he was having fun, I think the tox levels are probably irrelevant to the crash, and I think he made his choices.
What particular knowledge about the effects of the substances in his system makes you believe that they had nothing to do with his erratic behavior ?
You really believe that blood is obtained so long after death that anaerobic decomposition has produced ethanol in significantly measurable amounts? Uh, there are time limits on how long after death the post mortem specimens may be obtained.
I think he was having fun, I think the tox levels are probably irrelevant to the crash, and I think he made his choices.
He had a class 1 issued last May, according the FAA database.It says his aircraft was "light sport category". Did he have a class 3 or was he flying under light sport?
Ah, thanks.He had a class 1 issued last May, according the FAA database.
As in, it was part and parcel of the calls he made, the choices he made. Absent some unusual circumstance, likely he knew what he'd put in his body, likely had some concept of the effects. Not arguing, pro or con, on the chemical effects on his judgement - I do like he was mostly free to do so, whether the rest (or majority) of us approve.Tox levels irrelevant? Not sure how you get there.