Half of US meat...

II won't argue with that. If they invent a realistic vegan substitute for Texas beef brisket I might join you.

Mrs. Steingar actually started making a vegetarian meat substitute called seitan. It is basically wheat gluten plus liquid and flavorings. I tend to dislike plug and play meat replacements in principle, but this seitan really has its uses. Give it strong flavor and it can serve as a protein component in lunch sandwiches, lower the flavor and it fits nicely in stews and pasta, giving a low-fat protein component. There are commercially available soy products that can behave similarly.

However, I doubt I will ever be able to make anything that has the flavor of a brisket or bacon. Those are all based on long-chain aliphatics contained in animal lipid membranes, give very deep flavor, and are very difficult to reproduce artificially (impossible by an amateur chef like myself). I can use wine and some other ingredients to try and put deep flavor into vegetarian food, but this approach has its limits. Thus my vegetarian dishes tend to be somewhat more delicately flavored.

That said, I don't miss any of the meat at all.
 
Mrs. Steingar actually started making a vegetarian meat substitute called seitan. It is basically wheat gluten plus liquid and flavorings. I tend to dislike plug and play meat replacements in principle, but this seitan really has its uses. Give it strong flavor and it can serve as a protein component in lunch sandwiches, lower the flavor and it fits nicely in stews and pasta, giving a low-fat protein component. There are commercially available soy products that can behave similarly.

However, I doubt I will ever be able to make anything that has the flavor of a brisket or bacon. Those are all based on long-chain aliphatics contained in animal lipid membranes, give very deep flavor, and are very difficult to reproduce artificially (impossible by an amateur chef like myself). I can use wine and some other ingredients to try and put deep flavor into vegetarian food, but this approach has its limits. Thus my vegetarian dishes tend to be somewhat more delicately flavored.

That said, I don't miss any of the meat at all.
I tried many of the meat substitutes and found them all lacking. That is how a vegetarian diet works, by being unpalatable.
 

Attachments

  • FS_tofudebeest.gif
    FS_tofudebeest.gif
    33.6 KB · Views: 25
I tried many of the meat substitutes and found them all lacking...
Have you ever tried making a chili pepper out of meat?

Meat substitutes can be a fun way for vegetarian converts to replicate familiar foods, as few American vegetarians grew up vegetarian, but "cultural" vegetarians with long generational histories of vegetarianism don't exactly spend a lot of time producing food that tries to mimic meat.

I think it's useful to remember that in the debate of "ketchup v mustard", very few hot dog connoisseurs say "hold the bun, hold the mustard, hold the ketchup, hold the onions, hold the relish..."
-harry
 


hamburglar.jpg

That quote was attributed to a rant by George Carlin even though he was a "corpse-muncher" himself. http://veganschool101.blogspot.com/2009/03/george-carlin-prayed-mad-cow-disease_18.html
 
Have you ever tried making a chili pepper out of meat?

Meat substitutes can be a fun way for vegetarian converts to replicate familiar foods, as few American vegetarians grew up vegetarian, but "cultural" vegetarians with long generational histories of vegetarianism don't exactly spend a lot of time producing food that tries to mimic meat.

I think it's useful to remember that in the debate of "ketchup v mustard", very few hot dog connoisseurs say "hold the bun, hold the mustard, hold the ketchup, hold the onions, hold the relish..."
-harry
Good point. It's probably too late for me. I will give it another try if I ever develop coronary artery disease.
 
Harry Speaks, and Doth Proclaim: "Meat substitutes can be a fun way for vegetarian converts to replicate familiar foods, as few American vegetarians grew up vegetarian, but "cultural" vegetarians with long generational histories of vegetarianism don't exactly spend a lot of time producing food that tries to mimic meat."
And I think he's exactly spot on.
I really don't think there could ever be such a thing as a "meat substitute." There is either meat or no meat. Seitan is fine, and I like it sometimes, but it's in no way comparable to meat (except that it is edible). I enjoy tofu in some applications, too. In fact, I had some last night as part of a pad Thai.
Steingar, if you really want to make your food have that "rich" flavor, I'd suggest that you bone up on cooking with reduced vegetable stock and mushrooms. Mushrooms are awesome for that richness that is sometimes difficult to come by. If you have more cash, then use truffles. Porcini or truffle oil is a good way to start getting bolder flavors into your food.
The other thing I'd do is look towards cultures that are predominantly vegetarian for culinary inspiration. The best of them, in my opinion, is Indian cuisine.
My point is, if I were forced to go meatless then I wouldn't be messing around with so-called meat substitutes, because they are all (even if "organic") highly processed factory foods that I'd rather not eat. I'd just eat grilled, braised, sauteed, roasted, and raw veggies and starches prepared deliciously. Start using spices to form the flavor backbone of your dishes.
Another thing: have you ever tried smoking vegetables (like in a smoker... not out of a rolling paper)? That's another great way to give your food some depth.
 
Harry Speaks, and Doth Proclaim: "Meat substitutes can be a fun way for vegetarian converts to replicate familiar foods, as few American vegetarians grew up vegetarian, but "cultural" vegetarians with long generational histories of vegetarianism don't exactly spend a lot of time producing food that tries to mimic meat."
And I think he's exactly spot on.
I agree too. I love tofu when it's used in asian food but I can't stand it as a meat substitute. Strangely I've been out to dinner with people who for whatever reason assume that I'm a vegetarian. I'm not, although I don't consider meat a necessity at every meal, or even every few meals. I couldn't live without starches though, pasta and rice in particular.
 
Harry Speaks, and Doth Proclaim: "Meat substitutes can be a fun way for vegetarian converts to replicate familiar foods, as few American vegetarians grew up vegetarian, but "cultural" vegetarians with long generational histories of vegetarianism don't exactly spend a lot of time producing food that tries to mimic meat."
And I think he's exactly spot on.

As do I. I've already mentioned by dislike for meat substitutes

I really don't think there could ever be such a thing as a "meat substitute." There is either meat or no meat. Seitan is fine, and I like it sometimes, but it's in no way comparable to meat (except that it is edible). I enjoy tofu in some applications, too. In fact, I had some last night as part of a pad Thai.

While nothing fully replaces meat, it has two components in food. One of those is flavor, and I have already said I can't replicate it. That said, lean meats have far less flavor, since most of the long-chain alphatics that give meat flavor are found in fat and cell membranes.

The other is texture. Here, things like seitan and soy protein can give vegetarian foods familiar body and texture. I've been using soy for many years just for this purpose.

Steingar, if you really want to make your food have that "rich" flavor, I'd suggest that you bone up on cooking with reduced vegetable stock and mushrooms. Mushrooms are awesome for that richness that is sometimes difficult to come by. If you have more cash, then use truffles. Porcini or truffle oil is a good way to start getting bolder flavors into your food.

Yes, but one does not want mushroom flavor in every last meal, and in some it is inappropriate. Most stocks get the majority of their flavor from salt, and are refractory to condensation for this reason. I've made reduced stock from scratch and it's good, but a royal pain.

Honestly, I have no complaints in this regard whatsoever. Mrs. Steingar and I have been feeding a group of non-vegetarians once a year for four years running. We've never sent anyone away hungry, and we've never served the same thing twice. I doubt we ever will.

The other thing I'd do is look towards cultures that are predominantly vegetarian for culinary inspiration. The best of them, in my opinion, is Indian cuisine.
My point is, if I were forced to go meatless then I wouldn't be messing around with so-called meat substitutes, because they are all (even if "organic") highly processed factory foods that I'd rather not eat. I'd just eat grilled, braised, sauteed, roasted, and raw veggies and starches prepared deliciously. Start using spices to form the flavor backbone of your dishes.
Another thing: have you ever tried smoking vegetables (like in a smoker... not out of a rolling paper)? That's another great way to give your food some depth.

While I am not a big fan of meat substitutes, they have their place. For example, when I was assembling my curry last week, I wanted a protein component in it that was not present in the vegetables or the curry sauce. We had some sort of meat substitute stuff in the freezer, once thawed it quickly and easily provided the desired nutritional component.

I have not used tofu in years, and never liked it much. It is in no way a meat substitute, as it has a distinct texture, horrid flavor, and is high in fat.
 
I'm an omnivore, but with heavy carnivore leanings. I do like a vegetarian menu, actually more than I thought. But I don't like making a vegetarian recipe that tries to pretend it's meat. There are plenty of ways to get the protiens, amino acids, and whtaver else, without it trying to taste like something that it isn't.

It's about time to dig back through some of our vegetarian recipes and find something we haven't made in a while, or at all.
 
While I do not intend to become a Vegetarian or heaven forbid a Vegan, the thought intrigues me. What supplements, if any, must you take when on a true vegetarian diet? Are there vitamins and minerals that one must take in order to be healthy when on a vegetarian diet? I have "heard" this but don't know if it is true.

Now, where did my cheesesteak go? :D
 
While I do not intend to become a Vegetarian or heaven forbid a Vegan, the thought intrigues me. What supplements, if any, must you take when on a true vegetarian diet? Are there vitamins and minerals that one must take in order to be healthy when on a vegetarian diet? I have "heard" this but don't know if it is true.

Now, where did my cheesesteak go? :D

The one that comes with a caveat is a vegan diet, which cuts out all animal products. Legume protein, which is what is mostly consumed in the west, is deficient in sulfur containing amino acids. However, there are a variety of vegetable-derived foods that contain these. One simply has to be slightly aware.

I suspect those decrying vegetarian food have never had any, or at least any that was any good. I can easily count on the fingers of one hand the number of restaurants in which I've eaten food that was even as good as what I cook myself. I can think of none in which the food was better.
 
Last edited:
While I do not intend to become a Vegetarian or heaven forbid a Vegan, the thought intrigues me. What supplements, if any, must you take when on a true vegetarian diet? Are there vitamins and minerals that one must take in order to be healthy when on a vegetarian diet? I have "heard" this but don't know if it is true.

Now, where did my cheesesteak go? :D
Vitamin B12 supplementation is necessary for vegans and possibly some vegetarians.
 
... What supplements, if any, must you take when on a true vegetarian diet? ...
Vegans should take B12 supplements.

If you add in eggs and dairy into the mix, you're fine, and don't really need to take any special supplements.

I think where a lot of new vegetarians fall down is that they approach it like a new religion, one with strict rules where a transgression is a sin and failure. They fail to adhere to the "strict rules" and drop out.

The real point is just to shift from "mostly meat, some veg on the side" to "mostly veg". If you want a nice piece of fish a couple times a week, g'ahead. If you want to eat turkey on Thanksgiving, g'ahead. Nobody will issue you a "certified vegetarian" card, so nobody will be there to demand its return.

If it helps, don't put a label on your diet. Diets don't need names that imply standards to live up to with mandatory compliance.
-harry
 
Last edited:
I suspect those decrying vegetarian food have never had any, or at least any that was any good. I can easily count on the fingers of one had the number of restaurants in which I've eaten food that was even as good as what I cook myself. I can think of none in which the food was better.

I definitely believe this. The more we make intersting meals at home, the less I like to eat out, even at "nicer" restaurants. In fact the thought of most restaurant kitchens disgusts me. You can make higher quality food that is MUCH better for you nutrionally at home. Its also a lot of fun to make new, healthy meals that taste good.

I also do not think it is essential to have meat with every meal.
 
The best vegetarian food I have eaten was served at a first birthday celebration given by some neighbors from India. This is a big deal in their culture so they served many tasty dishes. I could probably go without meat if I could have food like this served regularly.
 
Yeah, but you also fly a Grumman. :goofy:

True. Therefore I am also used to getting wet in the rain, not being able to steer on the ground, forced to remain thin because it has very little useful load and banished to Class B airports at sea level, or B-52 bases with special permission.

:D

What's next? A Tofu Italian Pork sandwich? :sad:
 
The real point is just to shift from "mostly meat, some veg on the side" to "mostly veg". If you want a nice piece of fish a couple times a week, g'ahead. If you want to eat turkey on Thanksgiving, g'ahead. Nobody will issue you a "certified vegetarian" card, so nobody will be there to demand its return.

Fish seems to do OK, and we have some now and again (can't seem to give up anchovies on my pizza). However, Mrs. Steingar used to eat turkey once a year on Thanksgiving long, long ago, and was sickened every time. I call it the meat sickness, eating meat or other rich food when you are unused to it. When I was poorer and eating mostly vegetarian because I could afford nothing else I would get it from the occasional meat dinner.

Thus there is a bit of a division. If you don't eat meat with any frequency and go out for a meatburger dinner, you could find yourself in some discomfort.
 
I assume it must be the animal fats that are harder to digest??? I will agree that meals with mear are usually more filling and harder to digest. However, portion control is key here as well. We split the usual meat servings for one person, and eat more of the vegetables, salad, etc in addition to a balanced starch. Pizza is another story. :rolleyes2:
 
I assume it must be the animal fats that are harder to digest??? I will agree that meals with mear are usually more filling and harder to digest. However, portion control is key here as well. We split the usual meat servings for one person, and eat more of the vegetables, salad, etc in addition to a balanced starch. Pizza is another story. :rolleyes2:

I can't honestly say, I just know from experience. Yes, portion control can get past this, but we tend to eat what is in front of us, especially if it tastes good. What constitutes a portion for a vegetarian is likely less than that from someone else, but a vegetarian will normally be given the same-sized portion. I myself consider leaving a half-eaten meal to be rude, and am loathe to do so, even if the food is bad.
 
I myself consider leaving a half-eaten meal to be rude, and am loathe to do so, even if the food is bad.
I don't have a problem with this but I know many people who do. I think it's an unintended consequence of hearing about the starving kids in India when we were growing up.

I think I'm one of those people who can eat just about anything in moderation without an adverse reaction. I certainly don't pay too much attention to my diet and I hate to cook so my diet is pretty sketchy. I would say that I probably eat better at restaurants than I do at home.
 
I don't have a problem with this but I know many people who do. I think it's an unintended consequence of hearing about the starving kids in India when we were growing up.

I think I'm one of those people who can eat just about anything in moderation without an adverse reaction. I certainly don't pay too much attention to my diet and I hate to cook so my diet is pretty sketchy. I would say that I probably eat better at restaurants than I do at home.

I remember telling my mom to send the food I didn't eat to them then. I don't think she used that excuse for why I should eat that food anymore.
 
Fish seems to do OK, and we have some now and again (can't seem to give up anchovies on my pizza). However, Mrs. Steingar used to eat turkey once a year on Thanksgiving long, long ago, and was sickened every time. I call it the meat sickness, eating meat or other rich food when you are unused to it. When I was poorer and eating mostly vegetarian because I could afford nothing else I would get it from the occasional meat dinner.
The coworker of mine had never ate meat, period, in the 30 years of his entire life. He was pretty scared of getting sick from trying meat. He finally went for it. No sickness, just better performance.

We've thrown seafood, hamburgers, medium rare filet Mignon, etc at him. First time for all of them. No feeling of sickness.

Turkey just makes you tired, not sick, properly prepared.
 
During my rather lengthy sojourn into Mexico I stopped at a tienda just outside Guadelajara, tired, thirsty, starved, dirty, and determined to go no further. The menu had naught but the local dishes made with goat, and I didn't care at all. I ate what was in front of me, and didn't get sick or anything. Indeed, after that meat was back on the menu for the duration of the trip, it just made eating out that much easier. That is the only time I can say I've eaten meat after a long absence and not gotten sick.

My Mrs. got quite ill from turkey several times, until I insisted she stop eating it because it was making her sick. This did not happen until after we were married and she stopped eating animal products on a regular basis. Anecdotal to be certain, but I don't doubt the source. It is common knowledge that rich food can make people ill who are not used to eating it.
 
I don't have a problem with this but I know many people who do. I think it's an unintended consequence of hearing about the starving kids in India when we were growing up.

Yeah, I'm carrying about 100 pounds of "clean your plate" around my midsection. :frown2:
 
I don't have a problem with this but I know many people who do. I think it's an unintended consequence of hearing about the starving kids in India when we were growing up.

The only time I would ever be served animal products was in someone's home. I stopped eating them when I went out in my very early twenties, due to severe economic hardship (otherwise known as grad school). And the food would have to make me critically ill before I wouldn't eat it all in someone's home. To do otherwise is, as I said, rude. The meat sickness is more uncomfortable than anything else, but sufficiently uncomfortable to keep me from desiring the stuff at all.
 
The only time I would ever be served animal products was in someone's home. I stopped eating them when I went out in my very early twenties, due to severe economic hardship (otherwise known as grad school). And the food would have to make me critically ill before I wouldn't eat it all in someone's home. To do otherwise is, as I said, rude. The meat sickness is more uncomfortable than anything else, but sufficiently uncomfortable to keep me from desiring the stuff at all.
As a kid I was a very picky and slow eater. I resisted all attempts by my parents to get me to eat more. As an adult I will try almost anything. However, I have no problem refusing something I don't like or am too full to eat. If someone thinks that's rude, oh well.
 
As a kid I was a very picky and slow eater. I resisted all attempts by my parents to get me to eat more. As an adult I will try almost anything. However, I have no problem refusing something I don't like or am too full to eat. If someone thinks that's rude, oh well.

You don't cook...
 
You don't cook...
I said I don't like to cook, and it shows. When I'm required to bring food to some event I usually buy it, but I'm not insulted if someone doesn't eat it. They would not eat it for sure if I cooked it...
 
The only time I would ever be served animal products was in someone's home. I stopped eating them when I went out in my very early twenties, due to severe economic hardship (otherwise known as grad school). And the food would have to make me critically ill before I wouldn't eat it all in someone's home. To do otherwise is, as I said, rude. The meat sickness is more uncomfortable than anything else, but sufficiently uncomfortable to keep me from desiring the stuff at all.

A little hijacking here.

Why is it rude to not eat a meal offered in someone's home? Why isn't it rude to give someone food that they find horrible (or offensive in some way)?

If you were to fill my plate, don't expect me to finish it since I'm trying to lose weight.

Plop some typical spicy mexican dish on my plate and don't expect me to eat any of it since I'm not into burning the mouth or dealing with what happens later.
 
A little hijacking here.

Why is it rude to not eat a meal offered in someone's home? Why isn't it rude to give someone food that they find horrible (or offensive in some way)?

If you were to fill my plate, don't expect me to finish it since I'm trying to lose weight.

Plop some typical spicy mexican dish on my plate and don't expect me to eat any of it since I'm not into burning the mouth or dealing with what happens later.

I've always been very clear about my own dietary peculiarities, so no one has tried to serve me something I don't eat. My thought is if someone has gone to the trouble of making me something to eat, especially if they've had to do something new that they normally don't do for themselves (cook sans dead animal) I had better well eat it, enjoy it (or at the very least pretend to enjoy it) and be effusive in my thanks. I consider it rude to do otherwise if someone has prepared food for me. Do keep in mind that non-vegetarian chefs tend to do poorly in preparation of vegetarian dishes both in commercial and non-commercial settings.

This may be my own peculiarity, brought on by the amount of time and energy I spend in the kitchen. But I think anyone who cooks for themselves would feel likewise. Cooking is an art, and like any art it becomes somewhat emotional. To not eat someone's cooking is akin to criticizing their sculpture or musical performance; to do so is rude, at least in my opinion.
 
I disagree. We all have different tastes. I rarely go out to eat, because who wants to sit alone at a restaurant, and due to that I cook A LOT. I don't buy anything premade except for chicken noodle soup, because when I'm sick the last thing I want to do is cook. So I come up with a lot of different things. If I make something, and you don't eat it all, I won't be offended. I'll simply ask what was wrong with it, and go back to the drawing board on tweaking it for the next time I make it. I had my parents over a couple months ago and made French Onion soup. My mom loved it, and my dad hated it, can't please everyone. Hell, even I've thrown stuff out, because I couldn't save the taste of it.
 
I've always been very clear about my own dietary peculiarities, so no one has tried to serve me something I don't eat. My thought is if someone has gone to the trouble of making me something to eat, especially if they've had to do something new that they normally don't do for themselves (cook sans dead animal) I had better well eat it, enjoy it (or at the very least pretend to enjoy it) and be effusive in my thanks. I consider it rude to do otherwise if someone has prepared food for me. Do keep in mind that non-vegetarian chefs tend to do poorly in preparation of vegetarian dishes both in commercial and non-commercial settings.

This may be my own peculiarity, brought on by the amount of time and energy I spend in the kitchen. But I think anyone who cooks for themselves would feel likewise. Cooking is an art, and like any art it becomes somewhat emotional. To not eat someone's cooking is akin to criticizing their sculpture or musical performance; to do so is rude, at least in my opinion.

I guess I value truthfulness over social graces. I'd make a lousy diplomat or politician. Your definition of "rude" would be akin to expecting someone to lie.
 
I guess I value truthfulness over social graces. I'd make a lousy diplomat or politician. Your definition of "rude" would be akin to expecting someone to lie.

That's how I was brought up also. When dining at friends, family, etc, eat what is put in front of you and compliment the host(s) on the meal. I don't consider it lieing as I will compliment on the hospitality not necessarily the flavor of a particular dish.

"This is wonderful", can mean a lot of things, including the company, good conversation, hospitality and/or food. As I am NOT a picky eater, I have very ,very rarely not totally enjoyed the food served to me.


Goats eyes, Monkey Brains and live Eels are excluded.
 
What about eel brains and monkey eyes?
 
Back
Top