Had a Never Again moment yesterday

vfsit

vfsit

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vfsit
But found out something too that I had never read or heard of personally...


Flying yesterday I was so focused on avoiding weather, traffic, etc. I ran a tank dry without realizing I missed changing tanks earlier. This is the first time I have ran a tank dry so first time to have the engine stutter, etc. What really threw me for a min was the fuel flow meter (JPI FS-450). I watched it go from 12 to 16 to 25 to 38 to...etc.etc.etc. last I remember was around 128 gal/hr. I thought that the line had burst between the meter and the engine. I set for best glide and thankfully had a familiar private grass strip 4 mi in front of me (I was at 4500') I started processing through the emergency checklist and that's when I caught my STUPID error. I swapped tanks and the engine quickly came back. Its a lesson learned that I'll never forget. Thankfully the best possible outcome was what happened.

Stepping up and accepting my potential shame in case anyone does the same thing and gets the weird data from the fuel flow that throws them off too.
 
Been there done that, don't be too hard on yourself you dumb a$$. :lol: ;)

The reason the the fuel flow was so irradic is it was responding to the air being pumped pressurized and then blowing through the fuel flow transducer. Carry a hand held Garmin and set the fuel tank reminder to every hour. Its a nice reminder to switch tanks. ;)

When I ran my tank out the fuel gage still showed 7 gallons. :eek: I switched tanks and looked at the other tank and it showed 7 gallons. :eek: I deverted to the nearest airport. :yes: :lol:
 
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Geico266 said:
Been there done that, don't be too hard on yourself you dumb a$$. :lol: ;)

The reason the the fuel flow was so irradic is it was responding to the air being pumped pressurized and then blowing through the meter.
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Yeah my engineering mind processed why it did that AFTER the issue was resolved and I was on the ground safe at the home field so it makes sense. just never read about it, heard about it so it threw me... hopefully someone will read this and give them a quicker response time if they find themselves as stupid as me...
 
vfsit said:
Yeah my engineering mind processed why it did that AFTER the issue was resolved and I was on the ground safe at the home field so it makes sense. just never read about it, heard about it so it threw me... hopefully someone will read this and give them a quicker response time if they find themselves as stupid as me...
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Pretty sure anybody that has flown with two tanks has forgotten to switch a time or two. Trust me, you won't do it again. ;)
 
I've run tanks dry many times. However never did it by mistake. Glad you caught it in time.
 
Your not the first to run a tank dry, and you won't be the last. Next time, and yes, there will be a next time, at the sudden loud silence, you will know instantly what happened and then switch tanks first.

Good job on using on the emergency checklist.
 
One sure fire way to know how much fuel is in a tank is to run it dry. I hated the tanks on the 260hp Cherokee Six. Seemed pointless to have a little left in each tank.


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BigBadLou said:
I must be a lucky duck since I have NEVER forgotten to switch tanks in time. Never, ever!!

Well, not yet ... :lol:
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Not buying it. You say you have never forgot to switch tanks. So you have always switched at EXACTLY the same time every time? If your POH says switch every 60 mins it is EXACTLY 60 mins everytime? Every time? When you land and have lunch do you keep the time on last tank and change tanks EXACTLY at the second you are suppose to? No, because if you followed your POH you have set to the tank for take off. :rolleyes: :no: :D

Don't argue with Geico. :lol: ;)
 
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Alright, Geico.

My Owners Manual says to depart on a full tank, fly for one hour and change tanks. Note the time, fly that tank empty. Switch back to the first tank. Time left is second tank's duration less one hour. Climb uses 40% more fuel than leaned for best power, or 50% more fuel than leaned for best economy, so figger that out as you zip along.

I don't do that. I switch every hour. Have yet to miss it by more than about ten minutes. Don't worry much about extra climb fuel, as I don't cut it close enough for those 3-4 gallons to matter.

Stopping enroute, I fill up and start my hours over again. Making a burger run, always less than an hour, it's one tank out, other tank back. Next time I fly, whether I filled up or not, timing starts all over again. I dip the tanks during preflight, so I know how much I've got, and start on the fuller one.
 
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Geico266 said:
Not buying it. You say you have never forgot to switch tanks. So you have always switched at EXACTLY the same time every time? If your POH says switch every 60 mins it is EXACTLY 60 mins everytime? Every time? When you land and have lunch do you keep the time on last tank and change tanks EXACTLY at the second you are suppose to? No, because if you followed your POH you have set to the tank for take off. :rolleyes: :no: :D

Don't argue with Geico. :lol: ;)
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Lol, I walked right into that one, right? :)
Though if I was brave enough to argue with the gecko (how come your avatar shows a bird, Mr. Lizard :D ), I could always defer to my own interpretation of "in time". :)
 
[Sets fuel selector to both]
What's this switching tanks thing you guys are going on about, now? :p

Good lesson for us people who have little time outside of Cessna's.
 
My Beech is set up the same way Left or Right tank. Never ran a tank dry. Does the prop windmill or do you need to use the starter?
 
It's even more of an issue with four tanks in the Comanche. Hard to efficiently use all the fuel in the aux's without running it _real_ close to the bottom. A fuel totalizer makes the process much easier, however!
 
AKBill said:
My Beech is set up the same way Left or Right tank. Never ran a tank dry. Does the prop windmill or do you need to use the starter?
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It windmilled. Have a Mac 3 blade prop FWIW. Honestly the windmilling actually also helped to throw me off a little bit bc it was almost like the engine was still working just not making power.

Like I said thankfully the outcome was a good one but in the long run that was one of the most insightful flights of my life so far. I learned a lot from that experience. I intend to take that knowledge forward into my hopeful career. And if anyone was wondering, I was on a high downwind to the grass airstrip that I had decided as my landing site when I processed through the checklist and got her started back up. One of the things I look back at and am happy about is that I never stopped flying the plane. I was committed to land on that runway if the restart had not happened.
 
AKBill said:
My Beech is set up the same way Left or Right tank. Never ran a tank dry. Does the prop windmill or do you need to use the starter?
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Fires right back up as you switch tanks, I never even get to turn the boost pump on typically as its already up before I can reach for the switch. Typically it never even fully dies, as soon as it starts stumbling I reach down and swap. I always run tanks dry as I normally fly long range, and I want all my final usable fuel in one tank, no 2 gallons here, 3 gallons there, another 2 in the other. If I'm landing with a half hour of fuel, I want it all in one tank.
 
I run tanks dry all the time....always good to know how much gas you actually have. Found a tank with a collapsed bag that way....popped at 1.6 on the Hobbs, almost an hour before expected. That certainly got my attention.
 
AKBill said:
My Beech is set up the same way Left or Right tank. Never ran a tank dry. Does the prop windmill or do you need to use the starter?
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It'll windmill unless you pull up into a steep climb and let the speed decay. The best thing to do is just switch tanks. Don't run the pump, don't adjust the mixture, don't mess with the throttle, don't fiddle with the prop. The engine was running fine before on gas, just supply it some more, and it'll run fine again.

Note: Some Beech models(you don't specify) advise running the pump for xx seconds after switching. If you have one of those models, then follow that advice.
 
Geico266 said:
Not buying it. You say you have never forgot to switch tanks. So you have always switched at EXACTLY the same time every time? Don't argue with Geico. :lol: ;)
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Use a fuel analyzer and switch on GALLONS used and you won't have this problem. I switch at 8 gallons of burn EVERY time and have never missed. Plane stays in balance also ...
 
danhagan said:
Use a fuel analyzer and switch on GALLONS used and you won't have this problem. I switch at 8 gallons of burn EVERY time and have never missed. Plane stays in balance also ...
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It really astounds me that all planes don't have a good totalizer, it's the first thing I add. Nothing takes stress out of flying like knowing exactly how much fuel you have onboard.
 
danhagan said:
Use a fuel analyzer and switch on GALLONS used and you won't have this problem. I switch at 8 gallons of burn EVERY time and have never missed. Plane stays in balance also ...
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Believe you mean a fuel totalizer. Analyzer is what you would use to determine the chem composition of the fuel in question.

Anyway, since I have three tanks, and a fairly accurate gauge I'm not going to spend thousands for a totalizer when I can get the job done by knowing my plane, and using the tanks correctly. The added safety I get from a fuel totalizer would reduce my probability of fuel exhaustion by maybe 0.0001% or something.

Some planes require a dual sensor for fuel going to the engine, and fuel returning from the engine, and both of them cannot suffer a clog -- ever. That pretty much doubles the cost, weight and complexity of the fuel totalizer to the point that I would just rather do without.

YMMV, don't try this at home, objects in mirror....
 
I have a Westbend(?) kitchen timer on the yoke. Clock and 2 timers.
The timers will count up as is usual but you can also set in a certain time so they will beep at 0:00 after counting down from a time you set.

So, once in cruise you can figure the time remaining and set the timer a few mins before. Even with great ENC headsets I can hear it.

Alternatively, you can run a tank dry a few times and your right seater will soon get so sensitized to it they will be watching the fuel like a hawk!

7-tank Dave
 
Henning said:
It really astounds me that all planes don't have a good totalizer, it's the first thing I add. Nothing takes stress out of flying like knowing exactly how much fuel you have onboard.
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Makes things much easier, mine is accurate to within half a gallon. That said I still watch times, compare to analyzer indicated fuel burn and cross check against the old gauges. Also helps keep remaining fuel in the same place/tank instead of spread out.
 
docmirror said:
Anyway, since I have three tanks, and a fairly accurate gauge I'm not going to spend thousands for a totalizer when I can get the job done by knowing my plane, and using the tanks correctly. .
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Our plane just happened to have a JPI with fuel flow/totalizer that's tied to the 430. It's interesting to have statistics like gallons to next waypoint, gallons to destination, reserve gallons, nmpg, etc. Not necessary, but fun.
 
tehmightypirate said:
[Sets fuel selector to both]
What's this switching tanks thing you guys are going on about, now? :p

Good lesson for us people who have little time outside of Cessna's.
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:yeahthat:

One item less to forget. Frankly, this is one of the things I like the most about high wing aircraft. :yes:

Even though I never ran a tank of one of our Pipers dry, I regularly forget to switch at the exact time I was planning for. :redface:
 
Bill Jennings said:
Our plane just happened to have a JPI with fuel flow/totalizer that's tied to the 430. It's interesting to have statistics like gallons to next waypoint, gallons to destination, reserve gallons, nmpg, etc. Not necessary, but fun.
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What's nice is when you can watch range as winds change and you can alter your power to optimize your fuel$$$.
 
Henning said:
What's nice is when you can watch range as winds change and you can alter your power to optimize your fuel$$$.
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With a tailwind, I'll pull back to 2400, go LOP, and see if I can hit 21nmg, I've done it a few times. It's nice when your plane gets 9 more miles per gallon than your truck!
 
Bill Jennings said:
With a tailwind, I'll pull back to 2400, go LOP, and see if I can hit 21nmg, I've done it a few times. It's nice when your plane gets 9 more miles per gallon than your truck!
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Yep, what I found even more important though is with a headwind I know early on I'm not going to make the planned fueling, so I stop where the cheapest fuel is, rather than wherever I end up.
 
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