Guess Im no longer 'with you'

Captain

Captain

Final Approach
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This past tour I noticed that I subconsciously stopped checking in with 'with you'.

I've said before on this forum that I supported its use as it greases the skids of speech and even equated it to saying good morning sir or ma'am.

Well, now I can't say it. I've just been saying "good morning Denver, 167 level 350" and now that sounds normal.

Pffft,

Reformed 'with you' user.
 
I always said, "Cessna XXX, with you, VFR level/decending/climbing altitude X,XXX".

This morning on a long cross-country, I made myself cut it to just, "Cessna XXX, VFR X,XXX", when checking on with next sector controller. Its better to cut out the fluff, felt very efficient. The tower was busy when I tried to get in, and just said my whole who, what, why, where...without making it a two-step call/respond...etc etc.

Decided if its a mandatory call...ground, entering Class D/C airspace...etc etc, and I can say it quickly, I'll just give it in one conact. Flight following or any other request, non-mandatory initial call, I'll get their attention first.

Tower never missed a beat...I am gonna make the little change, less is more on the radio.
 
Good job. Next, exchange "negative contact" for "looking". :)
 
jnmeade said:
Good job. Next, exchange "negative contact" for "looking". :)
Click to expand...

If I don't see the traffic called out right away, I say "looking". If after 15-20 seconds I still can't find the traffic, I say "negative contact".
 
charris911 said:
I always said, "Cessna XXX, with you, VFR level/decending/climbing altitude X,XXX".

This morning on a long cross-country, I made myself cut it to just, "Cessna XXX, VFR X,XXX", when checking on with next sector controller. Its better to cut out the fluff, felt very efficient. The tower was busy when I tried to get in, and just said my whole who, what, why, where...without making it a two-step call/respond...etc etc.

Decided if its a mandatory call...ground, entering Class D/C airspace...etc etc, and I can say it quickly, I'll just give it in one conact. Flight following or any other request, non-mandatory initial call, I'll get their attention first.

Tower never missed a beat...I am gonna make the little change, less is more on the radio.
Click to expand...

If your purging the unnecessary, wouldn't VFR or IFR already be known by the controller?
 
LDJones said:
If your purging the unnecessary, wouldn't VFR or IFR already be known by the controller?
Click to expand...

When I read his post, I was thinking the same thing, but I believe I've read about situations in which the controller thought the pilot was on an IFR plan.
I'm a student and am curious about this.
 
tangopapa said:
When I read his post, I was thinking the same thing, but I believe I've read about situations in which the controller thought the pilot was on an IFR plan.
I'm a student and am curious about this.
Click to expand...

I was flying VFR from Portsmouth to Mansfield, and I asked the ground controller for flight following. He gave me a squawk code and frequency. I took off and the tower controller handed me off to Boston Approach. When I checked in with Boston I asked for a class bravo transit. He told me to "expect a bravo clearance after the next hand off."

I checked in the with the next controller after I was handed off and she said "cleared direct Mansfield". I asked her if I was cleared into the class bravo and she replied, "You're IFR, correct?" I told her "negative, we're VFR," and she cleared me into the bravo. I'm glad I spoke up since I'm not instrument rated.
 
It's not used in aviation radio, but why do so many movies have radio users saying, "Roger that."
 
I always respond: "Looking" if I don't have the contact. I will mention we have them on the 'fish finder'...just kidding. : )

If I'm VFR I will tell each controller that. I'm using a call sign though and 99.999% of my flights are IFR. It'd be very likely a controller would assume I'm IFR.

'Roger That' I believe is a nautical thing carried over. Same as 'Wilco'.
 
LDJones said:
If your purging the unnecessary, wouldn't VFR or IFR already be known by the controller?
Click to expand...

I am agreeable to nixing the "VFR"!!!

Also, went into two very low-use non-towered fields...cut my radio calls down to the following:

Inbound-

1) 10 miles out (with intentions)
2) entering pattern
3) final

Outbound-

1) taxi (backtaxi)
2) departing and intentions
3) leaving traffic pattern area

If there was traffic, I'd adjust as necessary, but I know I cut out half my radio transmissions. It worked well, I do like to hear myself talk...so it took some effort.
 
I've noticed when the controller is pointing me out to someone, they say "VFR traffic, a Cessna at ....". or something to that effect. Maybe that is a reason, I've included VFR with my altitude. Just a thought...
 
On the flip side, if you're checking in at 5,500 odds are you're VFR.


...and if you're me there's a 50/50 chance you've screwed it up and are Westbound too.

; )
 
tangopapa said:
When I read his post, I was thinking the same thing, but I believe I've read about situations in which the controller thought the pilot was on an IFR plan.
I'm a student and am curious about this.
Click to expand...
In those rare instances when we happen to be VFR in the jet, we will mention that to the controllers. They seem to assume that we're IFR and we normally are. Other than that, it's usually redundant.

Personally, my three favorite pet peeves when it come to phraseology are:
Talley Ho
No Joy
Here's the flash.
 
For me:

Tally Ho...agree, nails on a chalk board.
No Joy...agree, nails on a chalk board.
Here's the Flash...agree, but I use it due to having nothing better. 'There's the ident'? Or 'ident pushed'? Maybe nothing other than confirming the altitude that was given 99% of the time too.
 
My ME instructor would fail an engine every time you said "with you" on the radio. Even if you were already single engine. I haven't said "with you" since losing the second engine on what was already a single engine NDB approach.
 
MassPilot said:
I was flying VFR from Portsmouth to Mansfield, and I asked the ground controller for flight following. He gave me a squawk code and frequency. I took off and the tower controller handed me off to Boston Approach. When I checked in with Boston I asked for a class bravo transit. He told me to "expect a bravo clearance after the next hand off."

I checked in the with the next controller after I was handed off and she said "cleared direct Mansfield". I asked her if I was cleared into the class bravo and she replied, "You're IFR, correct?" I told her "negative, we're VFR," and she cleared me into the bravo. I'm glad I spoke up since I'm not instrument rated.
Click to expand...
The "VFR" or "IFR" is unnecessary. Usually the altitude gives it away. The TPX code should also. However, knowledge of the Class B procedure is your responsibility. You certainly made the right and necessary call on the mistaken clearance.

What's embarrassing is asking for an explicit Class B clearance when IFR. Never done that myself. :wink2:
 
Captain said:
For me:

Tally Ho...agree, nails on a chalk board.
No Joy...agree, nails on a chalk board.
Here's the Flash...agree, but I use it due to having nothing better. 'There's the ident'? Or 'ident pushed'? Maybe nothing other than confirming the altitude that was given 99% of the time too.
Click to expand...
Tally Ho...agree, nails on a chalk board.
No Joy... I always kinda' like saying that, but I guess it's just the flipside of Tally Ho
Here's the Flash...Never heard it before!! I assume the objective is to keep the talk to a minimum. Like using my stick mounted ident button. Still struggle to report altitude clearance only when given.
 
Captain said:
On the flip side, if you're checking in at 5,500 odds are you're VFR.
Click to expand...

I get 3400, 3700, 3300, and even 5500 when descending into CRQ on the TEC from POC from SoCal approach ALL the time!

Don't always bet on it being VFR . . . plus - given the MEA's around here I also see 9000 heading NW over LHS when heading toward the Bay Area since the MEA is 8600 - they know I'm gonna ask for 8 or even 6 if the winds are blowing as soon as I'm over the mountains . ..
 
Captain said:
I always respond: "Looking" if I don't have the contact. I will mention we have them on the 'fish finder'...just kidding. : )
Click to expand...
Now that I have a traffic display (ADSb) in the cockpit, I don't know what to say when traffic is called out, I don't see it, but have it on the "finder".

No need or purpose in mentioning my traffic display status? Is "negative contact" the correct response if displayed but not seen.

The only time I'm sure of my response to a traffic call out is "Currently in IMC".
 
My thoughts on responding to traffic advisories;

If I'm in Class A airspace then they can't give me a 'maintain visual separation, climb / descend and maintain FLXXX'...so I just respond with my call sign to acknowledge that I've received the traffic advisory. I think they just give those as a curtesey so you know traffic is coming. I sort of remember a story of a jet liner FO who saw oncoming traffic 1,000' above and mistook it for being at the same altitude so he climbed...right into the traffic. Anywho...

If I'm below 18,000' and on a final altitude I'll report the same way...with my call sign for the above stated reasons.

If I'm below 18,000' and trying to climb / descend then I'll respond with 'traffic in sight' if I see the traffic because in that situation ATC can (and 99% of the time will) clear me to climb or descend and 'maintain visual separation'. This way I get what I want sooner...which is always good.

Obviously if I'm IMC then I just say that.
 
LDJones said:
If your purging the unnecessary, wouldn't VFR or IFR already be known by the controller?
Click to expand...

I've used "ATLANTA CENTER NAVION 5327K LEVEL 5500" or whatever IFR or VFR for ages and never had an issue.
 
tinerj said:
It's not used in aviation radio, but why do so many movies have radio users saying, "Roger that."
Click to expand...

I was bopping around in South Carolina and there was a Mooney (I swear with the wind noise on his tranmissions it had to be an M10 with the canopy open) who answered every controller transmission with "There ya go."

I want to be flying on "Talk Like a Pirate Day." You can answer each transmission with "Arrrrrrr!".

PCT: Navion 5327K squawk 0423 and Ident.
27K: Aye, there be yer button matey.
PCT: Navion 5327K Radar Contact
27K: ARRRRRRRRR!
 
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I will say "looking when given a traffic report, if I am actually looking, if I don't find it shorty I come back with "no joy"

I will sometimes also say "looking, but have them on the box" sometimes, but only very rarely (may be twice so far)1
 
Dead Stick said:
In those rare instances when we happen to be VFR in the jet, we will mention that to the controllers. They seem to assume that we're IFR and we normally are. Other than that, it's usually redundant.

Personally, my three favorite pet peeves when it come to phraseology are:
Talley Ho
No Joy
Here's the flash.
Click to expand...

And for those have TIS, ads-b or some type of traffic device:

"we see um on the fish finder"
 
Captain said:
I always respond: "Looking" if I don't have the contact. I will mention we have them on the 'fish finder'...just kidding. : )

If I'm VFR I will tell each controller that. I'm using a call sign though and 99.999% of my flights are IFR. It'd be very likely a controller would assume I'm IFR.

'Roger That' I believe is a nautical thing carried over. Same as 'Wilco'.
Click to expand...

Naw, wilco actually mans something unique. In reality, most people use roger wrong. Look at the definitions of both roger and wilco:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/PCG/pcg.pdf

Also in response to an ident I just read it back in acknowledgement: "CoolPlane 678 ident". Maybe I'm wrong...
 
ChrisK said:
Naw, wilco actually mans something unique. In reality, most people use roger wrong. Look at the definitions of both roger and wilco:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/PCG/pcg.pdf

Also in response to an ident I just read it back in acknowledgement: "CoolPlane 678 ident". Maybe I'm wrong...
Click to expand...
I understand Wilco and Roger to still be valid and useful aviation terms as defined above (thanks for the Roger clarification).

On the ident, I know that the pressing of the ident button suffices for response to a simple "RV10 ident". I think it suffices for response to "RV10 squawk 1234 and ident". The only time I answer verbally is if it is combined with an altitude or vector, or as a training controller did, is if I get a code, altitude, and a vector all at one time.
 
ChrisK said:
Naw, wilco actually mans something unique. In reality, most people use roger wrong. Look at the definitions of both roger and wilco:

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/PCG/pcg.pdf

Also in response to an ident I just read it back in acknowledgement: "CoolPlane 678 ident". Maybe I'm wrong...
Click to expand...

When I said, 'Same as Wilco' I meant they're both nautical...not that they mean the same thing. Wilco is short for 'Will Comply'.

"RV10, expect BLINK at 8,000"

'roger' would be correct, 'Wilco' would be wrong.

"RV10, switch to alternate transponder"

'Wilco' would be correct, 'roger' would be wrong.
 
My favorite traffic call out of all time was for a Southwest 737. It was pointed out to a bizjet crew who acknowledged it by saying, "We got the corndog in sight." Priceless.
 
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