Sinistar
En-Route
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2016
- Messages
- 3,734
- Display Name
Display name:
Brad
TLDR Version: Spendy little box, especially when old meets new. Very easy to use, built in ADSB-in is very nice, I like the automated flight timers and "leaving altitude" feature.
Scheduling:
This past winter we decided to go for a GTX345, called around for quotes, picked a shop and pre-bought the unit. Our install was scheduled for the week after July 4th. The week before our scheduled install the shop manager called us and said still on schedule so dropped it of the Sunday afternoon before.
The Install:
Due to the July 4th holiday they didn't start until Tuesday. When I called on Friday he said it was all installed and they were testing. I'm thinking...sweet...no problems. Then I get a email on Sunday (who gets emails from avionics shops on Sunday
). The shop manager was really backlogged and explained that it is failing the COM radio interference test procedure. As I understand it, they transmit on 15 different frequencies on each COM device. We have a pair of KX155's.
Problem # 1 was in the KX155 with ILS/GS. They installed some filters and still no joy. The installer then took it (KX155) apart and cleaned up contacts and I think the culprit was in whatever grounds it to the case, perhaps where the tray is locks engage???
Problem # 2 was the second KX155 was getting into our old ELT circuit and then re-transmitting crud which drops the GPS signal enough to fail. They installed some filters and still no joy. They temporarily moved the ELT antennae back about 2.5ft and it solved the problem. I really liked our previous ELT location, halfway between the back window and dorsal part of the rudder. Now its a few inches behind the dorsal and off to one side. Plus a decent, but kind of big plug in the old hole.
Some Additional Work / Comments:
I also had them pull the DME since it was no longer functional. Fortunately he was able to place the top mount GPS antennae where an old antennae post was...so no new holes above the cockpit. Since there were wires there already he was able to follow that same route avoid pulling the entire headliner Instead he pulled a side panel and post panel going up by the door. I had also left him a headset to mini plug cable that I use for my gopro audio. He routed it up the same post and now I have a dedicate cable right up to the cabin dome light area where we occasionally mount the gopro. No more dangling GOPRO audio cable back down to a headset station @Radar Contact would dig this. Test flew it yesterday and worked great.
Labor/Cost
All in it was 30hrs of labor. If I understand right about 5...6 hours of that labor was to figure and resolve both those issues. I am not sure of the DME tray and wire removal hours but I am sure it had to be at least one or two hours. So, maybe if someone had an older panel but no noise issues you might be looking at about 20hrs of labor, maybe a bit less. It also requires a new Pitot Static/Encoder test. Using $90/hr that is still pushing $2K to install. Throw in a new encoder and the base unit price and its easily $7300 or so before taxes and any problems. Hopefully others have less issues. He said that our case happens around 5% of the installs.
W&B
All said and done we brought the Skylane home 1.5lbs lighter then when we dropped it off.
The Shop
I would use them again. Will probably do the new GNC 355a next year. The manager is very busy so a bit hard to get ahold of. I am sure with all the other ADSB installs, airventure being around the corner and the recent Garmin announcements he was swamped. However the installer met me and explained everything, offered some advice, etc. He also unlocked a few mysteries. He said our intercom is wired wrong (something about incorrect shielding). He said why mess with it if it works but told us what will happen if there is an issue. He also explained the mystery of our tailbeacon being on the radio master. He said from the factory there was a relay behind the panel and the tailbeacon is on this relay. Its to protect the flasher because the radio master is turned on after the startup EMF spike.
Test Flight Issues:
Actually the unit is pretty simple but with all that labor my wife and I made a extensive list and there was lots to check. Everything from transmitting on all radios, both stations, all VOR's, ILS/GS, ELT, Dome lights, altimeter, etc. All headset stations, etc. So far I have noticed the following :
#1: During initial climb out I noticed the GPS location (via Garmin Pilot) seemed stuck for about 10 seconds. It did not show a loss of GPS but like it was hunting for which direction I was flying. I do not recall transmitting anything at that time but maybe I did. So now I am really watching for this. On my second flight there was lots of radio tx as I went to a pancake breakfast and we did a in-air meetup (122.75) for pictures. But no GPS loss.
#2: On the second flight my Garmin Pilot crashed (Android Version) but it had done this on a previous flight as well using the GDL39-3D. I will test next time with our iPad Mini 4 and Galaxy tablet running at the same time and see what happens.
#3: The last issue was my own doing - that I went into the installer menu and lowered the aural alert volume from 60 to 40. It sounded too loud down on the ground. But in the air I could hardly hear it...so its going back to 60.
The Good Stuff
It comes up quick and auto pairs with the Android and iPad tablets quickly. I locks onto more ADSB GBT's than my GDL39 did thanks to now getting the signal down at the belly vs up on the dash. Entering a ATC xpdr code and going back to 1200 is way easier. I like the flight timers and altitude alerts. Now I know that IDENT lasts 18 seconds (had no clue on the old box). Every flight now shows up on FlightAware, even without Flight Following. My wife likes this in case there a "he's running late" moment. Obviously not very anonymous if you're that type.
What Would I Change
The price (obvious).
I didn't realize there is a OAT input so I would have installed that (if not too $$$$). That would have enabled Density Altitude and OAT being displayed.
Next, I wish the unit could set altitude deviation alerts less than 200ft. I'd like to set it at 100ft for a while to remind me how bad I hand fly altitude
I wish there was a way to have it display the altimeter value instead of the pressure altitude (not a big deal but seems more useful).
Rebate Dilema
So I was trying to be strategic and file for the rebate around 90 days before the install. Right about the time I was going to reserve they were all used up. So this creates a dilemma. My understanding is once you fly with the xpdr on you are now exempt from the rebate. So its either leave it off and check every Wednesday. Or blow off the rebate and test fly it to be sure it all works. I did the later. I might still try for a rebate but doubt it will work.
Scheduling:
This past winter we decided to go for a GTX345, called around for quotes, picked a shop and pre-bought the unit. Our install was scheduled for the week after July 4th. The week before our scheduled install the shop manager called us and said still on schedule so dropped it of the Sunday afternoon before.
The Install:
Due to the July 4th holiday they didn't start until Tuesday. When I called on Friday he said it was all installed and they were testing. I'm thinking...sweet...no problems. Then I get a email on Sunday (who gets emails from avionics shops on Sunday
). The shop manager was really backlogged and explained that it is failing the COM radio interference test procedure. As I understand it, they transmit on 15 different frequencies on each COM device. We have a pair of KX155's.Problem # 1 was in the KX155 with ILS/GS. They installed some filters and still no joy. The installer then took it (KX155) apart and cleaned up contacts and I think the culprit was in whatever grounds it to the case, perhaps where the tray is locks engage???
Problem # 2 was the second KX155 was getting into our old ELT circuit and then re-transmitting crud which drops the GPS signal enough to fail. They installed some filters and still no joy. They temporarily moved the ELT antennae back about 2.5ft and it solved the problem. I really liked our previous ELT location, halfway between the back window and dorsal part of the rudder. Now its a few inches behind the dorsal and off to one side. Plus a decent, but kind of big plug in the old hole.
Some Additional Work / Comments:
I also had them pull the DME since it was no longer functional. Fortunately he was able to place the top mount GPS antennae where an old antennae post was...so no new holes above the cockpit. Since there were wires there already he was able to follow that same route avoid pulling the entire headliner
Instead he pulled a side panel and post panel going up by the door. I had also left him a headset to mini plug cable that I use for my gopro audio. He routed it up the same post and now I have a dedicate cable right up to the cabin dome light area where we occasionally mount the gopro. No more dangling GOPRO audio cable back down to a headset station @Radar Contact would dig this. Test flew it yesterday and worked great.Labor/Cost
All in it was 30hrs of labor. If I understand right about 5...6 hours of that labor was to figure and resolve both those issues. I am not sure of the DME tray and wire removal hours but I am sure it had to be at least one or two hours. So, maybe if someone had an older panel but no noise issues you might be looking at about 20hrs of labor, maybe a bit less. It also requires a new Pitot Static/Encoder test. Using $90/hr that is still pushing $2K to install. Throw in a new encoder and the base unit price and its easily $7300 or so before taxes and any problems. Hopefully others have less issues. He said that our case happens around 5% of the installs.
W&B
All said and done we brought the Skylane home 1.5lbs lighter then when we dropped it off.
The Shop
I would use them again. Will probably do the new GNC 355a next year. The manager is very busy so a bit hard to get ahold of. I am sure with all the other ADSB installs, airventure being around the corner and the recent Garmin announcements he was swamped. However the installer met me and explained everything, offered some advice, etc. He also unlocked a few mysteries. He said our intercom is wired wrong (something about incorrect shielding). He said why mess with it if it works but told us what will happen if there is an issue. He also explained the mystery of our tailbeacon being on the radio master. He said from the factory there was a relay behind the panel and the tailbeacon is on this relay. Its to protect the flasher because the radio master is turned on after the startup EMF spike.
Test Flight Issues:
Actually the unit is pretty simple but with all that labor my wife and I made a extensive list and there was lots to check. Everything from transmitting on all radios, both stations, all VOR's, ILS/GS, ELT, Dome lights, altimeter, etc. All headset stations, etc. So far I have noticed the following :
#1: During initial climb out I noticed the GPS location (via Garmin Pilot) seemed stuck for about 10 seconds. It did not show a loss of GPS but like it was hunting for which direction I was flying. I do not recall transmitting anything at that time but maybe I did. So now I am really watching for this. On my second flight there was lots of radio tx as I went to a pancake breakfast and we did a in-air meetup (122.75) for pictures. But no GPS loss.
#2: On the second flight my Garmin Pilot crashed (Android Version) but it had done this on a previous flight as well using the GDL39-3D. I will test next time with our iPad Mini 4 and Galaxy tablet running at the same time and see what happens.
#3: The last issue was my own doing - that I went into the installer menu and lowered the aural alert volume from 60 to 40. It sounded too loud down on the ground. But in the air I could hardly hear it...so its going back to 60.
The Good Stuff
It comes up quick and auto pairs with the Android and iPad tablets quickly. I locks onto more ADSB GBT's than my GDL39 did thanks to now getting the signal down at the belly vs up on the dash. Entering a ATC xpdr code and going back to 1200 is way easier. I like the flight timers and altitude alerts. Now I know that IDENT lasts 18 seconds (had no clue on the old box). Every flight now shows up on FlightAware, even without Flight Following. My wife likes this in case there a "he's running late" moment. Obviously not very anonymous if you're that type.
What Would I Change
The price (obvious).
I didn't realize there is a OAT input so I would have installed that (if not too $$$$). That would have enabled Density Altitude and OAT being displayed.
Next, I wish the unit could set altitude deviation alerts less than 200ft. I'd like to set it at 100ft for a while to remind me how bad I hand fly altitude
I wish there was a way to have it display the altimeter value instead of the pressure altitude (not a big deal but seems more useful).
Rebate Dilema
So I was trying to be strategic and file for the rebate around 90 days before the install. Right about the time I was going to reserve they were all used up. So this creates a dilemma. My understanding is once you fly with the xpdr on you are now exempt from the rebate. So its either leave it off and check every Wednesday. Or blow off the rebate and test fly it to be sure it all works. I did the later. I might still try for a rebate but doubt it will work.
