Grumman Tiger Overview

Here is the Tiger data from What2fly.com compared to "like" aircraft.

Now the useful load with full fuel is not what I get, I am 580, but that is enough for my family so I am good.

When you look at the cost per NM, it is tough to beat the Tiger.

It is just an efficient aircraft.
 

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Rick,
Got a direct link to that table?
It gets cut off on my attempts to view just to the left of the Tiger data.
Thanks
 
Re: My Tiger

wrbix said:
I have read, but again without substantiation, that the prop going to low pitch stop at throttle back may act somewhat as a speed brake, helping attenuate float. Ron?
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That is probably true, but a) there are maybe two dozen out of 4000+ single-engine Grummans with c/s props, and b) landing distance isn't a limiting factor for these planes because they take about twice the distance to take off as they do to land. So, if that "speed brake" effect of the c/s prop makes the difference in your landing site, the only way that plane is leaving that site again is on the back of a flat-bed truck. Anyway, if you land with full flaps as we recommend, I don't think you'll notice the difference.
 
Re: My Tiger

Ron Levy said:
That is probably true, but a) there are maybe two dozen out of 4000+ single-engine Grummans with c/s props, and b) landing distance isn't a limiting factor for these planes because they take about twice the distance to take off as they do to land. So, if that "speed brake" effect of the c/s prop makes the difference in your landing site, the only way that plane is leaving that site again is on the back of a flat-bed truck. Anyway, if you land with full flaps as we recommend, I don't think you'll notice the difference.
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Thanks for sharing your experience/expertise.
 
ryoung99 said:
Here is the Tiger data from What2fly.com compared to "like" aircraft.

Now the useful load with full fuel is not what I get, I am 580, but that is enough for my family so I am good.
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The payload/useful load figures in that file are garbage. For example, typical Tiger is about 950 useful/650 payload with full (51 gallons) fuel) compared to 809 in that file, and a typical 180 Cherokee is about 1000 useful/700 payload with full (50 gallons) fuel compared to 746 in that file. It appears someone was just copying numbers from a manufacturer's marketing material, and that's a rather unreliable source for numbers applicable to actual planes flying today.

It is just an efficient aircraft.
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It is that.
 
Re: My Tiger

wrbix said:
Thanks for sharing your experience/expertise.
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I have to say that when the MT prop was introduced, I was really excited about it. However, after flying a couple of Sensenich-propped Tigers side-by-side next to MT-propped Tigers, I was very disappointed with what I saw, and shelved my plans to put one on mine. The shorter, quieter MT prop is still very important to our European colleagues due to JAA noise restrictions (the main reason it was developed in the first place, and why it was installed on several D-reg Tigers first), but I don't see it being worth $14K here. If I were looking to improve performance significantly and go the c/s prop route, I'd do the Hyper STC with a 200HP IO-360 and more efficient 2-bladed Hartzell c/s prop.
 
Re: My Tiger

Ron Levy said:
Anyway, if you land with full flaps as we recommend, I don't think you'll notice the difference.
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Ron, Just curious, do you retract the flaps when wheels touch down to settle to plane or retract later before taxi?

I have tried it both ways and dont seem to notice a big difference. :dunno: But I only have about 250hrs in a tiger so maybe I will keep playing.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
I thought I read something in this thread about needing at least 2500feet???

Any trouble insuring the Tiger? I heard it was more expensive/more difficult to insure than a Cherokee 180, which is the other bird I am considering....
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My insurance is below $800 for 65k hull and whatever the pax limit is ... started at $900 the first year until I had 100 hrs in type. I now have about 400 hrs in the Tiger. Love everything about the Tiger. Only thing I notice in my area is if in moderate TB and above, I have to use my right foot as a yaw damper to keep the tail from swinging back and forth (TB only).
 
ryoung99 said:
I didn't know we were going to start sharing photos.....

View attachment 35737


There are two types of pilots Grumman Pilots and pilots who have not flown a Grumman.

Cherokee 180 v Tiger..... that is a gimme. No offense to Cherokee's, but they are not even in the same class with the Tiger (or Cheetah). If you buy the Cherokee at some point you will look to change, if you buy a Tiger you will be buying your first and last plane. Every Tiger owner I know, if they sold their Tiger they ended up buying another.

Don't be a statistic, just get the right plane (Tiger) and enjoy it for decades.
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That is a nice paint job.
 
Re: My Tiger

Yes, up to 110kts... but it is rather windy and noisy, so we pretty much keep it closed up in flight. However, taxiing with it open is wonderful here in the South.


rbridges said:
that's a good looking plane. I bet they are fun to fly around. Can you fly with the canopy pulled back?
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I'm not actively in the market, but tend to peruse the classifieds when things get slow on PoA. :D A young man's fancy often turns to Grumman Tigers (Dare I mention the Cougars?). Unless I'm mistaken, that ship has been on offer for quite some time. :dunno:
 
atbroome said:
Its missing the 1st 500 hours of logs, if that is a big deal to you:

link

Too bad you aren't in NJ...I'd be up for a Tiger partnership :D
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Does that airplane seem a bit overpriced for a 1200+ hour engine and a mediocre paint job? Obviously, the asking price and selling price may not be the same, but that seems a little high...
 
FlyingMonkey said:
I've been looking at Tigers. Are the takeoff distances listed on this link accurate?

http://www.grumman.net/cgrcc/specs.html

I thought I read something in this thread about needing at least 2500feet???

Any trouble insuring the Tiger? I heard it was more expensive/more difficult to insure than a Cherokee 180, which is the other bird I am considering....
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I'm off the ground at gross just before my airports displaced threshold at 1176' so I think my roll is about 1050', conditions are almost always warmer than standard though. Distance seems slightly longer than my friends 172's or PA28's, strange thing is landing roll seems shorter than both of those models.

My insurance was quoted the the same as a Cessna or Piper, if it's higher it's likely because it has a higher hull value. I had 25+ hours in type before I purchased.
 
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Also seems a bit odd to put in a 650 but nothing else (audio panel, etc).

kyleb said:
Does that airplane seem a bit overpriced for a 1200+ hour engine and a mediocre paint job? Obviously, the asking price and selling price may not be the same, but that seems a little high...
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Re: My Tiger

FlyGirlKHWO said:
wrbix said:
Gorgeous paint job! Who dunnit? (Takes a special skill set to paint an AA5)
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This beautiful paint was done by KD Aviation, AKA Ken and Don Reece in New Windsor, NY. They're a top-quality shop.
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Ken Reese did our Cheetah 20 years ago, and has done a lot of other Grummans before and since. They really know what they're doing with Grummans, and are one of the three shops in the Northeast I recommend for a Grumman strip-and-paint job (the other two being Ed's Aircraft Refinishing in Brookhaven NY and Jim Russell at Chorman Field in Felton DE).
 
jkeesaman said:
I'm off the ground at gross just before my airports displaced threshold at 1176' so I think my roll is about 1050',
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Takeoff roll is only half the problem -- clearing any obstructions at the end is the other. That's why I want 50-foot obstacle distance plus 50%. Conservative? Yes. But it makes me feel a lot more comfortable, and there's not much operational utility I give up for doing it.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Thanks for the info.

And as I fly more, I'm developing the realization many recreational bachelor pilots experience, that finding three others to go with is an extremely rare event. Finding two others is very uncommon. And finding one is the more common of the shared experience.
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When I was put into a position where aircraft ownership was the right option, I started looking at the Diamond DA-40, then moved to the Grumman Tiger but after looking through a few hundred hours of flights in the logbook, the vast majority of my flights were solo, with a relatively small number of flights with 1 passenger. Literally 2-3 flights with someone in the back.

So...I scrapped the back seats and got a Lancair 360 which does 195kts on 10gph (O-360 A1A). Last two annuals ran me around $750 each. My mission was to go far, go fast, and no need to carry very much, so it's perfect for that. There are faster examples, I know of a few that do 205ktas with similar burn.

Speed does change the kind of flying you'll want to do. Your 2hr one-way radius goes up quite a bit as you hit the 200kt range. Head winds don't crush your ETE's like they do in the slower planes.
 
AggieMike88 said:
How is front seat comfort compared to the Traveler?

I've taken a few flights with a friend in hers, but I need to twist just a bit left to not feel crowded side to side. And this was after moving the seat so we weren't colliding shoulders and elbows.
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That issue is the same for all. The thing I found handy in the AA5x series is the fold down back seat for hauling bulkier items. We used one as our support plane at an Ag outfit and it was really handy. The Traveller liked runway, but we did operate it off a 3300' grass strip with ease even loaded with a couple cubitainers of chemical heading to an out station.
 
Re: My Tiger

Ron Levy said:
Painting a Grumman isn't that hard, but stripping it is. You have to follow the instructions in the manual very carefully so you don't get stripper into the bonded joints. However, there are quite a few shops with plenty of experience and expertise in this task.
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With Grummans I'm a big proponent of sand and shoot. Just spot prep where the aluminum is peeled bare and sand the rest down to 220. You'll gain a couple extra pounds, but save money on base coats as well as potential heartache from chemical mistakes in stripping. If the paint has a good bond to the metal, there is absolutely no pressing reason to remove it.
 
coma24 said:
Speed does change the kind of flying you'll want to do. Your 2hr one-way radius goes up quite a bit as you hit the 200kt range. Head winds don't crush your ETE's like they do in the slower planes.
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That's the problem with most non-retracts, I guess except for Cirrus. At altitude, I often find 30 - 40 knot headwinds, and even with a Tiger 100 knots isn't really that fast to get somewhere. Now, when it was reversed, obviously 160 knots or better was nice, but it seems that is the rarity.
 
Re: My Tiger

Henning said:
With Grummans I'm a big proponent of sand and shoot. Just spot prep where the aluminum is peeled bare and sand the rest down to 220. You'll gain a couple extra pounds, but save money on base coats as well as potential heartache from chemical mistakes in stripping. If the paint has a good bond to the metal, there is absolutely no pressing reason to remove it.
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I don't know of any high-quality paint shops with Grumman experience which agree with Henning.
 
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here...

I managed to get a demo ride from a local owner last week, after finding his name on the AYA board. After months (nay, years) of analyzing various makes & models for a future purchase, it seemed like a Tiger would be the best for my mission.

I was very impressed with it, and found that it was everything it was made out to be, BUT....

...I found the cabin to be too narrow. As another earlier poster mentioned, I had to sit with my arm squished against the cabin wall. It just doesn't seem like it would be comfortable at all on a long flight.

Darn, & I thought I'd found the One :)

I've reset my sights on a Cherokee Six....:D

Bottom line...do your best to get a demo flight before settling on a particular plane. I've crossed several off of my list based on what I've found in the demos I've taken.
 
Re: My Tiger

Ron Levy said:
I don't know of any high-quality paint shops with Grumman experience which agree with Henning.
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Of course not, they make money off stripping using minimum wage labor and charging $60hr for it or more.
 
bcool said:
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here...

I managed to get a demo ride from a local owner last week, after finding his name on the AYA board. After months (nay, years) of analyzing various makes & models for a future purchase, it seemed like a Tiger would be the best for my mission.

I was very impressed with it, and found that it was everything it was made out to be, BUT....

...I found the cabin to be too narrow. As another earlier poster mentioned, I had to sit with my arm squished against the cabin wall. It just doesn't seem like it would be comfortable at all on a long flight.

Darn, & I thought I'd found the One :)

I've reset my sights on a Cherokee Six....:D

Bottom line...do your best to get a demo flight before settling on a particular plane. I've crossed several off of my list based on what I've found in the demos I've taken.
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Check out the BE-23/24 series of planes for the bottom end cost of big cabin and the Commander 112/114/115 series for the top end if you don't particularly need 6 seats.
 
Henning said:
Check out the BE-23/24 series of planes for the bottom end cost of big cabin and the Commander 112/114/115 series for the top end if you don't particularly need 6 seats.
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Thanks, I've looked at those, too. Despite my attempts to convince her otherwise, the boss (aka my wife & "co-pilot") likes the roominess of the Six and the potential to bring along (ahem) larger family and friends.

When it comes down to it, I think a Six would give us the most flexibility. Yes, it's slow, but you sure can't beat the ability to take more people or cargo if you need to. I would feel silly taxiing to the ramp with just two of us on board probably 90% of the time. Oh, well, gotta keep the boss happy - at least she's excited about getting a plane - I should be thankful :yes:
 
bcool said:
Thanks, I've looked at those, too. Despite my attempts to convince her otherwise, the boss (aka my wife & "co-pilot") likes the roominess of the Six and the potential to bring along (ahem) larger family and friends.

When it comes down to it, I think a Six would give us the most flexibility. Yes, it's slow, but you sure can't beat the ability to take more people or cargo if you need to. I would feel silly taxiing to the ramp with just two of us on board probably 90% of the time. Oh, well, gotta keep the boss happy - at least she's excited about getting a plane - I should be thankful :yes:
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That makes it simple, if the wife wants a Cherokee Six, a Cherokee Six it is. However, you may want to introduce her to a 206 as well. High wing has some advantage in loading "big people" and also introduces partial shelter from sun and rain. Also they are commuter seating, so are some Cherokee 6s. This is actually more comfortable than club seating if you are flying 6 full sized people.

Also remember that when you fly 4 in a 6 seat plane, you want to put 2 people in the back seat. You want to move your CG as far aft as possible for best speed/efficiency.
 
Question about insurance - I understand the insurance premium for a Tiger will be slightly higher if I have low hours (less than 25). Is it possible to revise the policy mid-term after crossing logged hour benchmarks? Will that reduce the premium as you go - for instance after logging 25 hours initially?
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Question about insurance - I understand the insurance premium for a Tiger will be slightly higher if I have low hours (less than 25). Is it possible to revise the policy mid-term after crossing logged hour benchmarks? Will that reduce the premium as you go - for instance after logging 25 hours initially?
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I don't know, but it's easier just to get an AYA PFP checkout initially, which every insurer with which I'm familiar will waive the time-in-type requirement.
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't know, but it's easier just to get an AYA PFP checkout initially, which every insurer with which I'm familiar will waive the time-in-type requirement.
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Good to know thank you!
 
Ron Levy said:
I don't know, but it's easier just to get an AYA PFP checkout initially, which every insurer with which I'm familiar will waive the time-in-type requirement.
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Ron is right, I had zero time in type when I bought my Tiger. I had not flown for a couple of years, did the checkout and my BFR together and it was done.

Honestly I paid a bit more than what has been stated here, but only marginally more. I chalk most of that up to the stated higher value of my Tiger than most in the fleet.

Join the AYA, and all the resources you need for this type will be at your fingertips.
 
I recently acquired a 1978 AA5B Tiger. It flies great...but oil temperature is running in the red at altitude. I've had baffles addressed and the oil temp guage checks out. I do not want to go the LoPresti new Cowl route because of the expense. Will a six vane oil cooler do the trick? Any other ideas would be appreciated. Engine is factory rebuilt with 318 hours on it.
 
Bonanza7 said:
I recently acquired a 1978 AA5B Tiger. It flies great...but oil temperature is running in the red at altitude. I've had baffles addressed and the oil temp guage checks out. I do not want to go the LoPresti new Cowl route because of the expense. Will a six vane oil cooler do the trick? Any other ideas would be appreciated. Engine is factory rebuilt with 318 hours on it.
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Are you sure the Vernatherm in the cooler is good, and that the cooler is clean? They sometimes collect junk in them that blocks the through flow. How long ago was the rebuild?
 
Bonanza7 said:
I recently acquired a 1978 AA5B Tiger. It flies great...but oil temperature is running in the red at altitude. I've had baffles addressed and the oil temp guage checks out. I do not want to go the LoPresti new Cowl route because of the expense. Will a six vane oil cooler do the trick? Any other ideas would be appreciated. Engine is factory rebuilt with 318 hours on it.
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Where are you? There might be a board member who's Grumman knowledgeable nearby.
 
Bonanza7 said:
I recently acquired a 1978 AA5B Tiger. It flies great...but oil temperature is running in the red at altitude. I've had baffles addressed and the oil temp guage checks out. I do not want to go the LoPresti new Cowl route because of the expense. Will a six vane oil cooler do the trick? Any other ideas would be appreciated. Engine is factory rebuilt with 318 hours on it.
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Bo, this is probably an issue that is not Tiger-specific (but, instead, O-360 specific), so here is as good a place as any to get answers. But if you want a Grumman-centric perspective, the place to get answers is the Grumman Gang mailing list. Subscribe at: Grumman.net.

Barry
 
The six-row cooler may help for two reasons -- it's got more cooling surface and it's probably a lot cleaner inside. As Henning mentioned, crud builds up inside oil coolers over time, and they need to be cleaned out, usually as part of the overhaul process by someone like Pacific Oil Cooler. If you want to go the 6-row route, contact Fletchair -- they can sell you the cooler, a copy of the approval paperwork, and instructions for installation including modifying the baffle with a larger opening.

But first, check the vernatherm, as Henning suggested -- that's the fastest and easiest thing to check.
 
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