Grounded_Kidney Stone History

richas

richas

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Rich
I have decided to get current after fifteen years. Went to an AME and fessed up that I passed a kidney stone 11 years ago. Medical denied.

I have to provide proof that there are no more stones in the kidneys and so I have scheduled an appointment with my doctor who has me coming in for an ultrasound.

My question is this; is the ultrasound acceptable to the FAA? I have not received their letter and I do not want to have to go back for a CT or whatever.

As I recall the original diagnosis was through a CT.

Thanks

Rich
 
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richas said:
I have decided to get current after fifteen years. Went to an AME and fessed up that I passed a kidney stone 11 years ago. Medical denied.

I have to provide proof that there are no more stones in the kidneys and so I have scheduled an appointment with my doctor who has me coming in for an ultrasound.

My question is this; is the ultrasound acceptable to the FAA? I have not received their letter and I do not want to have to go back for a CT or whatever.

Thanks

Rich
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The doc should be along shortly, but there are essentially 3 tests that you can do for the stone:

1. Ultrasound
2. KUB (X-Ray)
3. CT

Part of this depends on how your stone was diagnosed. If the stone was too small for KUB to pick up and was diagnosed by CT, then you'll need a CT to show you're clear of stones. When I did mine a few years back (and that was only one year after the stone), I had a urologist do an ultrasound and KUB and the FAA accepted that.
 
There are a few recent threads on kidney stones here, including http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41865. While waiting for the docs to check in, you could do a search using the forum search function. Shame you went to the AME first. :(

Welcome to PoA, though, and glad you're getting back into flying. You can spend some time with an instructor refreshing your skills while you get the medical taken care of!
 
Yea, I figured since the stone was passed Eleven years agoo...........

I think It was diagnosed with a CT the first time, does this mean I have to try to find the original medical records? Perhaps I should cancel the Ultrasound....


Thanks

Rich
 
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I used a KUB to show I was clean after my KS adventure. FAA was satisfied with that.

You'll get a real AME opinion soon.
 
Do you know the composition of the stone? If you passed a uric acid stone it is not visible on a KUB and a KUB would be unacceptable to the FAA. So if the composition of the stone is now know, you have to choose something other than a KUB.

Echo is allright but there are difficulties at times with interpretation.

Generally, choose the least intensive acceptable means of followup. Like I said, sometimes the echo over-reads. And by not using the same technique, you lose the chance for a special issuance for unchanged retained stones. To get that one, you need the same technique to demonstrate the same old residual stones are still the same and unchanged.
 
Thank you all for the advice. I think I will go ahead with the ultrasound tomorrow and:

Hope there are no stones
hope the FAA accepts the results

If there are no stones and I need a CT, so be it.

If there are stones I will have to deal with that.

Thanks

Rich
 
Just got the ultrasound. It turns out that I am not pregnant.

:goofy:

Rich
 
richas said:
Just got the ultrasound. It turns out that I am not pregnant.

:goofy:

Rich
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That's the best news of all!
Personally, I'm starting to get nervous. I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay late for my period.
 
Telemakhos said:
That's the best news of all!
Personally, I'm starting to get nervous. I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay late for my period.
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What do you mean you're late for your period? I count two periods in your post, and they're right where they're supposed to be!
 
Update:
Ultrasound revealed no stones! :)

Now waiting for FAA letter...........


Rich
 
Update:
Ultrasound revealed no stones! :)

Now waiting for FAA letter...........


Rich
 
Okay, perhaps I'm naive, but the common thread I see is that the aeromedical process is like a boogeyman. Did I hit the mark?
 
Jaybird180 said:
Okay, perhaps I'm naive, but the common thread I see is that the aeromedical process is like a boogeyman. Did I hit the mark?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm a bit concerned myself. (And I'm young, healthy, and slowly getting into shape) Round IS a shape.


If I go to a normal Doctor, they prescribe me something long term........ it might mess with my medical right? Maybe.... maybe not? So should I check with my AME before taking anything, or does it need to be before I get a prescription for something?

But I can't just go to my AME, because if something is wrong, then he has to report it......... Or can you use your AME as your normal doctor as well and not in the "Official" manner.

Sorry for the thread jack.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Okay, perhaps I'm naive, but the common thread I see is that the aeromedical process is like a boogeyman. Did I hit the mark?
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There's certainly a lot of fear around the process. But like lots of fears, once you know the facts the fear is greatly reduced.

The aeromedical branch (in my opinion) WANTS to certify everybody it can. There are some medical conditions (seizures come to mind) that are just NOT compatible with flying an airplane (or driving a car). But for everything else, there is generally a process to follow that can result in a person getting a medical certificate. As they get more data on diseases and their effects on flying, they adjust standards and the alternative processes to match.

It used to be that diabetes was grounding. Then oral hypoglycemics were permitted, and now insulin is permitted, as long as the airman has the diabetes under control. The hoops they lay out to jump through may not always be easy or cheap, but they seem reasonable in my opinion.

The best advice I've seen and I'll repeat it here is to NEVER let your ordinary doctor OWN your health care and treatment. Be sure YOU are always in charge, and thinking of the possible effects of any medical situation on your aeromedical fitness. Then work with a knowledgeable AME (like Dr. Bruce) so that you can make informed decisions about your treatment.
 
TripleZ said:
Yeah, I'm a bit concerned myself. (And I'm young, healthy, and slowly getting into shape) Round IS a shape.


If I go to a normal Doctor, they prescribe me something long term........ it might mess with my medical right? Maybe.... maybe not? So should I check with my AME before taking anything, or does it need to be before I get a prescription for something?

But I can't just go to my AME, because if something is wrong, then he has to report it......... Or can you use your AME as your normal doctor as well and not in the "Official" manner.

Sorry for the thread jack.
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To my knowledge if you CONSULT an AME, as opposed to applying for a medical certificate, then he can give you advice on how to manage your issue with minimal impact to your aeromedical fitness. I don't know if he has any obligation to report you if you're not fit for flight... but really, if he tells you that, do you REALLY want to fly anyway?

But when you apply for a medical, the minute you give him the form there's no turning back - you're going to get a medical certificate or a denial or a deferral out of it.
 
I know I'm probably due for stones at some point in the future. Dad got em, uncle got em. I'm just gonna suffer till I pee em out. No record of it medically, it never happened.
 
EdFred said:
I know I'm probably due for stones at some point in the future. Dad got em, uncle got em. I'm just gonna suffer till I pee em out. No record of it medically, it never happened.
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Copious quantities of rancid apple cider vinegar will help with that.
 
EdFred said:
I know I'm probably due for stones at some point in the future. Dad got em, uncle got em. I'm just gonna suffer till I pee em out. No record of it medically, it never happened.
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You could have one now and not know it (I did). And if you get symptomatic, how do you know for sure it isn't something else?

The worst effect of the 3rd class medical is that pilots tend to avoid the doctor's office because so many diagnoses could affect their flying. I've caught myself doing it too. We really should not have to think about the FAA every time we think about seeing the doctor. Personally I'd like to see the 3rd class go away for just this reason.
 
What changes (if any) will need to be done to the other classes to make this viable. I agree with your stated objective BTW.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I couldn't agree less.
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OK.

I base my opinion on my personal experience with both local AMEs, and with interactions with folks in OKC from time to time. For objective data, I believe the percentage rate of people who apply for a medical, persevere through the SI process, and are finally denied is less than 1%.

What's your opinion based on?
 
azure said:
You could have one now and not know it (I did). And if you get symptomatic, how do you know for sure it isn't something else?

The worst effect of the 3rd class medical is that pilots tend to avoid the doctor's office because so many diagnoses could affect their flying. I've caught myself doing it too. We really should not have to think about the FAA every time we think about seeing the doctor. Personally I'd like to see the 3rd class go away for just this reason.
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There is truth here.

I really like Henning's idea of replacing the 3rd class medical with a CDL (commercial driver's license) physical exam. It is a well established federal standard, reasonably comprehensive but not as onerous as the 3rd class. It has a well established track record. Many physicians perform CDL physicals but would not bother me if they required that it be issued by an AME.
 
I try never to give up an airman to denial. However, I had one today, I called the Fed. Examiner (documents on file) and asked him to review it. IT was a bit much-Five Simultaneous SIs. This pilot will not give up and IMO need NOT give up.

The examiner called back and denied it (about 3 hours later) on a recent change in allowable drug combinations, but he pointed out HOW TO REMEDY IT. Airman is very very senior, and is going to his doc tomorrow to get the change done, we'll have a second visist in about two weeks, get a letter and he will fly again.

They do try. Even if I can't protect the airman completely.

There is an upside, though. With Five SIs it's near impossible to get everything in the 90 day window. This evaluation/action to the file stopped the clock on documents getting older than 90 days.

Eighty six years old and still sharp.
 
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EdFred said:
I know I'm probably due for stones at some point in the future. Dad got em, uncle got em. I'm just gonna suffer till I pee em out. No record of it medically, it never happened.
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Me too. They run in the family, just like the gout I get to fight with on a routine basis. One of reasons I drink a lot of whatever I'm drinking (well, that's not my excuse for the beer, but you get the idea) and try hard to keep my weight down.

Yeah, if the damn things get me there will be a test of my own pain tolerance. As is I'd rather bleed out than see an MD for a band aid, the pilot medical stuff makes it much worse. Then again, I put up with the gout for a long time before seeing a doc, and gout is really bad. Ever wear sandals in Ohio in January?
 
Could my AME have held off on reporting my previous stone to the FAA? I could have provided HIM proof that I was stone free in a few days.

Rich
 
To those who want to pass a stone without seeing a doc...good luck. Hope you keep a supply of demerol on hand.

So, where does the FAA draw the time-line on historical kidney stones requiring follow-up testing before issuing an airman cert? 11 years wasn't enough? Seriously? When did they change this? Seems to me it used to be more reasonable, like 5 years with no history.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
To those who want to pass a stone without seeing a doc...good luck. Hope you keep a supply of demerol on hand.

So, where does the FAA draw the time-line on historical kidney stones requiring follow-up testing before issuing an airman cert? 11 years wasn't enough? Seriously? When did they change this? Seems to me it used to be more reasonable, like 5 years with no history.

Jeff
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When I left ER they gave me a sheet of vicadin, for the next one....
Yeah, eleven years, that is why I fessed up so easily...
On the other hand, if you have passed one, you can imagine trying to land let alone fly...

Rich
 
richas said:
Could my AME have held off on reporting my previous stone to the FAA? I could have provided HIM proof that I was stone free in a few days.

Rich
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Yes he could have. Sigh. He could have just told you you were grounded. Even if you had done the papers, he has 14 days before he has to send them in.....

"candy a_s AME"

steingar said:
Yeah, if the damn things get me there will be a test of my own pain tolerance. As is I'd rather bleed out than see an MD for a band aid, the pilot medical stuff makes it much worse. Then again, I put up with the gout for a long time before seeing a doc, and gout is really bad. Ever wear sandals in Ohio in January?
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That's just nuts. Six Indomethacins 8 hours apart and it's GONE.
 
richas said:
On the other hand, if you have passed one, you can imagine trying to land let alone fly...
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I have had them, twice, a long time ago (...previously reported, no change...). Both times, and especially the second time, when I knew what was likely happening, I had enough warning - 20-30 minutes of general discomfort before things got ugly, that I could have found somewhere safe to put the plane down. That is not at all to say that I think it is a good idea to be flying around with known stones.

Jeff
 
bbchien said:
Yes he could have. Sigh. He could have just told you you were grounded. Even if you had done the papers, he has 14 days before he has to send them in.....
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That kills me, I am having a hard time not having evil thoughts.

Rich
 
bbchien said:
That's just nuts. Six Indomethacins 8 hours apart and it's GONE.
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Never said I was sane, nor terribly bright about my own health. Most of the PhD's I know avoid MDs like the plague on general principles alone, double that for me being a pilot. Like I said, my foot had to be just about falling off before I'd see someone about it. Never said I was wise, just loud.

Nothing says an NSAID will get a stone to pass.
 
at the glider contest there was a guy who wasn't around when it was time to grid but his glider was next to the runway. "where is so and so?" turns out he luckily started to pass his kidney stones before grid and launch times. ow
 
I got mine in the middle of the night. I woke up, felt nauseous, ran to the bathroom, puked, then curled up on the floor in pain. Finally, I managed to stop the dry heaves long enough to crawl to the car so my wife could drive me to the ER and get some good drugs in me. Nurse asked me how much I hurt, on a scale of 1 to 10. I was fighting the pain so bad I couldn't talk. She said, "I take it that's a 10".
 
Matthew said:
I got mine in the middle of the night. I woke up, felt nauseous, ran to the bathroom, puked, then curled up on the floor in pain. Finally, I managed to stop the dry heaves long enough to crawl to the car so my wife could drive me to the ER and get some good drugs in me. Nurse asked me how much I hurt, on a scale of 1 to 10. I was fighting the pain so bad I couldn't talk. She said, "I take it that's a 10".
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Except for EdFred or Henning, where it's a 2. :yikes::eek:

:rofl:
 
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