Good news/bad news--my ADF works!

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PPC1052

Final Approach
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I went flying in my plane with my CFII for the first time in several months. We recently had been working in the Redbird AATD on some things that I think are easier to teach in the sim than a real plane, and the timing worked well because our weather has been so crappy. So, it was good to get back up in a real plane.

Previously, I had never been able to get the ADF in my plane to work properly. Turns out it was pilot error, coupled with a non-functioning LOM/NDB at my home airport. After my thorough review of the POH, we made a point to test it on various stations on our flight. The good news is that it functioned perfectly. The bad news, is that now I can be tested on NDB approaches when I go to my check ride.

At any rate, I am happy that the ADF will greatly increase the functionality of my plane. It only has two NAV/Coms, and an ADF, with no GPS or DME. A lot of the ILS/LOC approaches in my area seem to say ADF REQUIRED.
 
Put an "Inop" label on it for your check ride. Last NDB approach I did was on my check ride, 20 years ago.
 
This is funny. On my IR checkride, the examiner had me do an NDB hold, which I'd never practiced before. Luckily, I'd read up on it and was able to do one, but I take your point about being tested on the ADF. Doesn't hurt to be able to do them.
 
Do you even have an NDB approach anywhere near where you will be doing your checkride?
 
As long as mine works, it stays in - I like the ADF and take pride in having trained on NDB approaches. Even flew one under the hood with David White on board (this was two years ago or so).
 
ja_user said:
Do you even have an NDB approach anywhere near where you will be doing your checkride?
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Yep.

KUMP NDB Rwy 15. (less than 10 minutes away from my home airport, and where I did my initial private instruction.)

KEYE NDB 21 (where I hangar my plane, although that NDB is NOTAMed as U/S until 2016.)

KHFY NDB 01 (also less than 10 minutes away from my home airport)
 
SCCutler said:
As long as mine works, it stays in - I like the ADF and take pride in having trained on NDB approaches. Even flew one under the hood with David White on board (this was two years ago or so).
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Yeah, it was a challenge, but once it clicked, they were actually fun to fly.
 
jordane93 said:
I thought NDB approaches and holds were not in the PTS anymore?
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The PTS requires at least two non-precision approaches. I think, but I could be wrong, that the examiner would have the option of asking you to do an NDB as part of that. IV. A. ("Non precision approaches"), identifies various examples, and those include an NDB:
The examiner will select nonprecision approaches that are representative of the type that the applicant is likely to use. The choices must utilize two different types of navigational aids. Some examples of navigational aids for the purpose of this part are: NDB, VOR, LOC, LDA, SDF, GPS, or RNAV (including LNAV/VNAV and RNP-AR). (emphasis added.)
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PPC1052 said:
The PTS requires at least two non-precision approaches. I think, but I could be wrong, that the examiner would have the option of asking you to do an NDB as part of that. IV. A. ("Non precision approaches"), identifies various examples, and those include an NDB:
The examiner will select nonprecision approaches that are representative of the type that the applicant is likely to use. The choices must utilize two different types of navigational aids. Some examples of navigational aids for the purpose of this part are: NDB, VOR, LOC, LDA, SDF, GPS, or RNAV (including LNAV/VNAV and RNP-AR). (emphasis added.)
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Yea that is possible. When I was doing my IR, the plane didn't even have an ADF in it and was told my DPE doesn't test on it anymore. I ended up getting a VOR approach that we've practiced dozens of times and an RNAV appraoch along with the ILS
 
You seem to be very confident in your ability to fly the NDB approach. Go for it,practice the one in the area. Good luck ,have fun.
 
my opinion: if you can't fly an NDB approach you don't understand the relationship between heading, wind, and ground track and shouldn't be taking an Instrument checkride anyway.
 
tonycondon said:
my opinion: if you can't fly an NDB approach you don't understand the relationship between heading, wind, and ground track and shouldn't be taking an Instrument checkride anyway.
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... and get off my yard, you young punk kids! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Get-off-my-lawn.jpg
 
frfly172 said:
You seem to be very confident in your ability to fly the NDB approach. Go for it,practice the one in the area. Good luck ,have fun.
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Not sure if that was addressed to me, but if so, no, I am not confident-- at least not yet. I haven't ever done an ADF approach, or trained how to do one. I just for the first time this week even learned how to get mine to function like it is supposed to. I am still a good deal away from being ready for any check ride.
 
I replaced my ADF with an XM Radio.
 
tonycondon said:
my opinion: if you can't fly an NDB approach you don't understand the relationship between heading, wind, and ground track and shouldn't be taking an Instrument checkride anyway.
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I think folks get enamored with the precision of a localizer and glideslope then forget the concept of the non-precision approach is to get one safely to a lower altitude in the general vicinity of an airport.

Since beacons in the US tend to be poorly monitored/maintained these days it was an easy decision to pull the ADF from the 'kota. That said, I think NDB approaches are a good exercise for the reasons Tony mentioned.
 
They really aren't that big of a deal, I only did them after my checkride though. NO ADF in the plane I used for IFR.

We have a few ILS/LOC approaches here that use an ADF for the FAF or published hold. I actually like having them to identify the FAF.
 
Yep, the thing you listen to the ballgame on. It can be used for navigation too! Isn't that wunnerful!
 
PPC1052 said:
At any rate, I am happy that the ADF will greatly increase the functionality of my plane.
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Don't see that written very often. As you may be aware, NDBs are slowly marching toward extinction. Great that yours works, but I wouldn't invest much to keep it working should it break in the future.

That said, I always loved doing NDB approaches in actual. Breaking out under the deck was alway a bit of a surprise as to where you might find the airport!
 
Brad Z said:
Don't see that written very often. As you may be aware, NDBs are slowly marching toward extinction. Great that yours works, but I wouldn't invest much to keep it working should it break in the future.
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Yeah, I don't see that happening. I could see buying a used replacement, which I do see for sale on ebay for a hundred bucks or so.

As far as the increased functionality, I was refering to all of the ILS/LOC approaches in my area that require an NDB to mark the final approach fix/and or the missed approach hold. Eventually, I am sure we will go to a panel mounted GPS. (I'd like a GTN 650 or 750) But for now, the VORs and the ADF work pretty well for naviation.
 
There are enough IAPs not associated with NDBs that I very rarely hear of anyone doing them outside of training (there isn't an NDB approach within 100 nm of my home airport). In your case, it sounds like you'll have to suck it up and learn it for the ride, but let it be known that in the real world of IFR an NDB approach is almost always the last logical choice out there with the technology available to us in the 21st century that has made instrument flying so much safer. For one, they are very hard to fly precisely which can make lateral separation with obstacles interesting if you're not on your game. An ILS/LOC, VOR, or RNAV/GPS approach procedure will get you to the runway or MAP easily. An NDB approach will get you somewhere in the general vicinity of where you need to be-that's not good enough for me with the technology available to us today.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yeah, I don't see that happening. I could see buying a used replacement, which I do see for sale on ebay for a hundred bucks or so.

As far as the increased functionality, I was refering to all of the ILS/LOC approaches in my area that require an NDB to mark the final approach fix/and or the missed approach hold. Eventually, I am sure we will go to a panel mounted GPS. (I'd like a GTN 650 or 750) But for now, the VORs and the ADF work pretty well for naviation.
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If you plan to do alot of IFR flying, you'll be shortchanging yourself if you don't get a tso'd, approach certified GPS. There are many airports out there that only have GPS approaches and nothing more. Even a KLN-94 is better than nothing. Careful with the GTNs...you'll love them so much that you'll have no money left. I've been trying to convince my boss to pull the 430 (non-WAAS) and throw a 750 in the work plane. So far, no dice :D.
 
GCA319 said:
An ILS/LOC, VOR, or RNAV/GPS approach procedure will get you to the runway or MAP easily. An NDB approach will get you somewhere in the general vicinity of where you need to be-that's not good enough for me with the technology available to us today.
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Understood. Obviously the ILS would be first choice, followed by the localizer, and then the VOR. I can't imagine looking at the weather down to minimums, with an ADF approach as my only option, and thinking "Sure, let's file this plan."
 
PPC1052 said:
Yeah, I know. But that feels like cheating to me. And frankly, I would only be cheating myself.
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I like your attitude, ADF navigation will seem a little confusing at first but after you get the hang of it ---it ain't that hard. Keep in mind that ADF navigation is only as accurate as your DG setting and your ability to hold precise headings.
 
They're the easiest approaches. Fly the needle. When you're there, look up.
 
tonycondon said:
my opinion: if you can't fly an NDB approach you don't understand the relationship between heading, wind, and ground track and shouldn't be taking an Instrument checkride anyway.
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yep,, know how to use what ya got, it's another tool
 
Our airplane has an ADF also. I enjoyed the challenge of learning to fly NDB approaches, and did one on my checkride a while back. Most of the NDB's around here have been decommissioned. It is kind of sad, because while not terribly accurate, the NDB approaches did not require a lot of expense for the aircraft owner. Also, you can home in on an AM radio station if you need to, if other things quit working. It helps to know where the radio station antennae is, then if you can get under the ceiling, it is possible to navigate VFR to where you need to go. I know I am old fashioned, but on the other hand, I like redundancy :).
 
I know a Lufthansa A320 pilot who still flies NDB approaches in Russia. At some airports with scheduled airline service, that is all they've got.

The leader of Poland was killed a few years ago as a passenger on an NDB approach that was below minimums.

I wonder how long NDB will be common inn that part of the world.
 
NoHeat said:
I know a Lufthansa A320 pilot who still flies NDB approaches in Russia. At some airports with scheduled airline service, that is all they've got.

The leader of Poland was killed a few years ago as a passenger on an NDB approach that was below minimums.

I wonder how long NDB will be common inn that part of the world.
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They're still around in Alaska too, but mostly obsolete in the lower 48.
 
NoHeat said:
I know a Lufthansa A320 pilot who still flies NDB approaches in Russia. At some airports with scheduled airline service, that is all they've got.

The leader of Poland was killed a few years ago as a passenger on an NDB approach that was below minimums.

I wonder how long NDB will be common inn that part of the world.
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The Russian dual NDB approaches are absolutely cool- two NDBs in line with the runway, a dual-needle ADF indicator, line up the needles, you're in line either the runway. Just stupid simple, easy, cheap, reliable.
 
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