Going into a college flight program with private licence

oregonboy109

oregonboy109

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oregonboy109
At college aviation program such as UND, OSU, Purdue, WMU... what happens to incoming students who already have a private certificate? Is there an abbrivated course of some sort or a ground school class one must take before getting credit for the PPL and moving to the next flight course? Does it matter if the PPL was obtained from a part 61 or 141 school prior to starting college? All the information letters and packets I've gotten have been vaugue on this subject so I hope someone here can help me out.
Thanks!
 
In the end, they graduate with a mountain of debt and a degree that is slightly less marketable than basket weaving. Just like all the others at those schools.
 
My guess is they would need to take another "checkride" with the school before they get the ok.
 
When I was looking at going into a program like that they would just do a 'check ride'with one of their instructors to check your skills. That's all they told me was required as long as I met their requirements. College plans changed so I never put that to the test.
 
JHW said:
In the end, they graduate with a mountain of debt and a degree that is slightly less marketable than basket weaving. Just like all the others at those schools.
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Thanks for the reply,
I know aviation degrees can be a hot topic but lets save that for another thread.

Thanks.
 
I believe the flight program is not intimately connected to the instructional program, and that the other posters are correct with the presumption of a checkride and continuing instruction. I also agree to the lack of utility of the desired degree. I just read a thread from a graduate of the OSU aviation department decrying his lack of employability. The fellow who was trying (not terribly hard or successfully) to sell me a new motorcycle was an airline pilot getting out to sell bikes, easily the worst profession imaginable.

I would recommend (and I think most posters would agree) that getting a degree in something marketable might be a good idea. If the aviation thing pans out the useful degree won't hurt, and if it doesn't you can do a good job and fly in your spare time like many of us.

Hope I answered your question even if I included something you didn't want to hear. Just get it right. Most people don't get a second chance at University.
 
Because of the last response I feel the need to add:
I was looking at the aviation business curriculum instead of the professional pilot (which is what your talking about I'm assuming).
Had I walked in with my private pilot license for the professional pilot degree/program I would have been at least 1 semester ahead. There were only a few credits the first semester that dealt with getting the ppl. Most of them could be waved. I think just one or two had to be replaced with another class.
 
farmerbrake said:
Because of the last response I feel the need to add:
I was looking at the aviation business curriculum instead of the professional pilot (which is what your talking about I'm assuming).
Had I walked in with my private pilot license for the professional pilot degree/program I would have been at least 1 semester ahead. There were only a few credits the first semester that dealt with getting the ppl. Most of them could be waved. I think just one or two had to be replaced with another class.
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Thank you, and everyone else, for all the quick and (mostly helpful ;) ) replies. Again we can debate aviation degree vs other degrees elsewhere and I haven't decided which to pursue as college is a little ways off but just wanted to know about going into college with a private already and I've gotten great answers.
Thanks.
 
For us, many of our students (myself included) come in with a PPL. There's no check ride needed, you just still have to take the Private Pilot class on campus that is required of all Pro Pilot students. There's an on-campus class for every rating in addition to the ground lessons in the flight lab. This isn't time wasted, because the class is still 3 hours of college credit.
 
Easy just turn your certificate in and start over. The pain of redoing your PPL is small potatoes compared to the pain of going to aviation college.:lol:
 
At UND it depends on your major. If you're a commercial aviation (and maybe aviation management?) major, you take the ground school and do something like 12 flights. If you aren't a commercial aviation major you just take the ground school. Kind of depends on the school. Best bet would be to call and talk with a guidance counselor.
 
dlsmith said:
For us, many of our students (myself included) come in with a PPL. There's no check ride needed, you just still have to take the Private Pilot class on campus that is required of all Pro Pilot students. There's an on-campus class for every rating in addition to the ground lessons in the flight lab. This isn't time wasted, because the class is still 3 hours of college credit.
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How do you like MTSU, I've considered it.
 
JHW said:
beats me, but it must be something else, as it was stated the time was "not wasted"
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Yeah I dont know, must be some kind of credit hours
 
oregonboy109 said:
At college aviation program such as UND, OSU, Purdue, WMU... what happens to incoming students who already have a private certificate? Is there an abbrivated course of some sort or a ground school class one must take before getting credit for the PPL and moving to the next flight course? Does it matter if the PPL was obtained from a part 61 or 141 school prior to starting college? All the information letters and packets I've gotten have been vaugue on this subject so I hope someone here can help me out.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you go with a CFI/MEI ticket and a Travelair, you take the degree program and the A&P program, skip their flying program and undercut their multi cost and sell blocks of multi to all your classmates. This way you graduate with 1500hs, most of it ME, an A&P, a business (or whatever) degree and 4 years experience running your own business. In the mean time those 1500 hrs have earned you money and the A&P program helped subsidize your maintenance costs as well.

That's how you do it most effectively.
 
I'd look elsewhere to get your flight hours, get a BS in BS online if you feel the need.
 
Also thought about another option is to just get your BS in whatever and in the meantime fly at an FBO and get ratings that way if you dont go to a collegiate program and if the checkbook allows for it.
 
oregonboy109 said:
At college aviation program such as UND, OSU, Purdue, WMU... what happens to incoming students who already have a private certificate?
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Depends on the school. Some will give you credit for those courses in their curriculum just by showing your certificate. A few may require you to take the courses anyway. AABI accreditation (which several of the schools you mention have) requires that the school make an evaluation of your knowledge and skills before giving credit for training elsewhere (other than another AABI-accredited program).

All the information letters and packets I've gotten have been vaugue on this subject so I hope someone here can help me out.
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If you want reliable information, contact the Department Chair directly -- the school's web site should have that contact information.

BTW, AABI is the Aviation Accreditation Board International, which is the CHEA-recognized aviation equivalent of ABET for engineering programs or AACSB for business programs. This is a specialized accreditation of the specific program above and beyond the normal accreditation of the school in general by one of the regional organizations of the Council on Higher Education Accreditation such as the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools for colleges and universities in the Midwest.

BTW, I used to be the director of a university aviation program, and was chair of the University Aviation Association's Flight Education Committee as well as a member of the Council on Aviation Accreditation, which is now AABI, so I have a pretty fair idea on how this all actually works. And I would note that as mentioned above, MTSU has one of the stricter rules on credit for prior training, but they also have a very high quality program.
 
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steingar said:
I believe the flight program is not intimately connected to the instructional program,
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At the schools mentioned, you would be incorrect. Those flight programs are an integral part of the overall program at those schools, with academic credit and grades and everything.
 
For the love of all things great, go get a degree that isn't related to aviation. You can work on your aviation certs outside of school work.
 
hook_dupin said:
For the love of all things great, go get a degree that isn't related to aviation. You can work on your aviation certs outside of school work.
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ROI on a degree isn't all that great

Take that money and get into the trades, start a business, or do something that leads to a job/career/money.
 
I can tell you how they did it at OSU (Oklahoma). I already had my private pilot certificate too. They did not require a checkride and gave me all credits relating to private pilot no questions asked. However, if I had known, I would have gotten as many ratings as I could at home before I went except the last two. They require you to take two part 141 at the school. The others can either be part 91 and/or done prior to admission.

I will give a few pieces of advice if you decide to go the aviation route. First and foremost, it's expensive as heck so mitigate costs as much as possible. Take courses like math, English etc with FASFA paying as much as possible through your community college. Get at least your instrument done at home if not your commercial but verify that's acceptable at your college before you do that. Many programs will have multi and CFI left to complete requirements. Except the instrument, this is how I knocked a year off university fees. The airplanes at OSU rental per hour are on par with FBOs but they get you by charging a per credit fee. Once you are a CFI, do not expect to be hired much less paid well. Make friends with flight schools/companies. I lucked out twice in my career by doing this. Last but not least, yea...it's true..I do wish I would have gotten something to add to my degree like business. It does add to the cost though.

Last but not least...avoid sallie Mae if possible. They are one of the worst companies I and many students have ever delt with. Thank god I have a job I can afford the payments.
 
Ryanb said:
How do you like MTSU, I've considered it.
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I looked at almost every other collegiate aviation program in the nation, and I'm here, if that tells you anything. It's the best mix of program quality and cost effectiveness I could find. Also, I like the area and campus better than the others I looked at. The program is great, as someone who has experience with both Part 61 and 141 programs, I can definitely say that the knowledge level of the pilots in this program on the technical subjects as a whole surpasses what I've seen from most Part 61 programs. Feel free to PM me with any questions. Or, I see you're in Tennessee, feel free to come by sometime and I'll be happy to show you around and put you in contact with the people who can answer any questions beyond what I can offer.

Also, yes, it is 3 hours towards the 120 required to obtain the degree, as well as the 60 hours required to qualify for the RATP reduced minimums.

A quick word on collegiate programs. I find that the cost/benefit of going Private through CFI is not there. However, where it pays off in our program is Instrument, Commercial, and Multi, which are the only ratings you are required to obtain through the university. We operate on the FITS proficiency system, reducing the amount of hours required for those ratings. I took the cheaper route of getting my Private and CFI elsewhere, and doing the three required ratings through MTSU. This ended up being the most cost-effective way, mostly due to the condensed Comm syllabus. It is true that once you get this degree, you are limited to aviation as a career. However, the airlines require a degree, and it's becoming more popular with larger 135 operations. I would have been miserable chasing a degree in Business or something, but the Aerospace degree allows me to learn something I actually care about.

My last disclaimer is that my only affiliation with the University is that I am a student, and not an employee, so this is my honest opinion on the matter.
 
oregonboy109 said:
Thank you, and everyone else, for all the quick and (mostly helpful ;) ) replies. Again we can debate aviation degree vs other degrees elsewhere and I haven't decided which to pursue as college is a little ways off but just wanted to know about going into college with a private already and I've gotten great answers.
Thanks.
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There's no debate. There's people who don't know anything and there's people who think an aviation degree is stupid.

Of the people who don't know anything most realize their condition and refrain from positing an opinion. Some, however, decide to announce the virtues of an aviation degree despite being ignorant.

It's a whacky world we live.
 
oregonboy109 said:
At college aviation program such as UND, OSU, Purdue, WMU... what happens to incoming students who already have a private certificate? Is there an abbrivated course of some sort or a ground school class one must take before getting credit for the PPL and moving to the next flight course? Does it matter if the PPL was obtained from a part 61 or 141 school prior to starting college? All the information letters and packets I've gotten have been vaugue on this subject so I hope someone here can help me out.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, at UND they require the AV101 which is a one semester Private pilot ground school that you must pass with a 70 or better, plus a 10 hour flight course to transition into their program.
 
JHW said:
In the end, they graduate with a mountain of debt and a degree that is slightly less marketable than basket weaving. Just like all the others at those schools.
Click to expand...

Yes!

Been there, done that. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd have bought a cheap 150 or 172, flown the balls off it and got all my certificates, and sold it for what I paid for it when I was done.
 
Arbiter419 said:
Yes!

Been there, done that. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd have bought a cheap 150 or 172, flown the balls off it and got all my certificates, and sold it for what I paid for it when I was done.
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Even better, a cheap Apache twin so you'd build multi and complex time from lesson one.

Edit: then hit the local community college for the first two years.
 
Arbiter419 said:
Yes!

Been there, done that. If I was going to do it all over again, I'd have bought a cheap 150 or 172, flown the balls off it and got all my certificates, and sold it for what I paid for it when I was done.
Click to expand...

LDJones said:
Even better, a cheap Apache twin so you'd build multi and complex time from lesson one.

Edit: then hit the local community college for the first two years.
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Shoot, with how much debt a student is gonna have anyways, might as well do this! Maybe find 3 other classmates, convince them to switch majors to something valuable and then it cuts the cost.
 
LDJones said:
Even better, a cheap Apache twin so you'd build multi and complex time from lesson one.
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That won't get you past 61.156 and 61.160 the way an FAA-approved college/university program will, and the cost of 500 hours of flying time (even in a cheap Apache) pays for a lot of tuition, room, board, and books.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Shoot, with how much debt a student is gonna have anyways, might as well do this! Maybe find 3 other classmates, convince them to switch majors to something valuable and then it cuts the cost.
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Seriously! We've seen them here for $20K. That's less than a year at most schools. On your check rides do them in the twin, then rent a cheap single for the one or two required maneuvers and kill two birds with one stone on those rides.

The incremental operating costs of your own Apache would likely still be much less than renting a new 172 from any of the college programs.

And, as you point out, do that with two buddies and you cut costs even more. First one to get his CFI/MEI is golden, building time teaching the others!
 
Ron Levy said:
That won't get you past 61.156 and 61.160 the way an FAA-approved college/university program will, and the cost of 500 hours of flying time (even in a cheap Apache) pays for a lot of tuition, room, board, and books.
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Time will tell. With that experience level the time-building jobs would be much easier to come by and you could be paid for those $500 hours.
 
Ron Levy said:
That won't get you past 61.156 and 61.160 the way an FAA-approved college/university program will, and the cost of 500 hours of flying time (even in a cheap Apache) pays for a lot of tuition, room, board, and books.
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It's fairly easy to book 100-150 hours of instruction per month at a busy flight school. In my view, most folks are better off to go part 61 and instruct to 1500 hours than get a 500 hour advantage and a pile of debt that the collegiate programs offer.

I feel very strongly that the collegiate programs are not giving their applicants the true costs of these programs. The R-ATP sell makes this even worse.
 
hook_dupin said:
It's fairly easy to book 100-150 hours of instruction per month at a busy flight school.
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That still won't get you past 61.156 unless the flight school has a 61.156 program including the necessary Level C full flight simulator. Also, having given 220 hours of instruction in two months and being wasted at the end, I don't see 150 hours a month as being feasible -- that's a staggering workload. I did that in the summer, too, working six days a week -- don't see even 100 hours a month being feasible in the winter.
 
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Don't do it. Get a degree at an instate tuition place, spend maybe 45-60k instead of 90-110k for tuition, and fly on the side. You will fly more often, get your certs faster, and end up with less debt overall. My experience, ERAU in Prescott, AZ, CFI/MEI/SEL/MEL/SES commercial. I wish I had done it this way instead of what I did do.
 
Ron Levy said:
That still won't get you past 61.156 unless the flight school has a 61.156 program including the necessary Level C full flight simulator. Also, having given 220 hours of instruction in two months and being wasted at the end, I don't see 150 hours a month as being feasible -- that's a staggering workload. I did that in the summer, too, working six days a week -- don't see even 100 hours a month being feasible in the winter.
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Quite a few regionals offer the CTP course as well as Sportys and the normal sim operators. In short, the ATP hurdles aren't as tall as the collegiate aviation crowd make them out to be.

At the same time, aviation students are taking on mountains of debt for aviation degrees only to get entry-level positions that pay below minimum wage.

I'm convinced that there should be mandated financial counseling specific to aviation before students sign up for collegiate aviation programs.
 
hook_dupin said:
At the same time, aviation students are taking on mountains of debt for aviation degrees only to get entry-level positions that pay below minimum wage.

I'm convinced that there should be mandated financial counseling specific to aviation before students sign up for collegiate aviation programs.
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My dad has the Aeronautical Science degree from Embry Riddle. When we were looking at colleges he asked me a simple question, "if your medical craps out, what are you going to do with your aeronautical science degree?" All aviation colleges should ask that to potential students.
 
James331 said:
ROI on a degree isn't all that great

Take that money and get into the trades, start a business, or do something that leads to a job/career/money.
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ROI on a degree is very good as long as it's a degree in something useful.

Business degrees are a dime a dozen and go nowhere in and of themselves. The only way to make a business degree even more useless is to put a specifier in ffront of it, like "aviation".

If you're inclined to get a "business degree" because you want to get into "management" then start with an accounting degree. That leads to a real job where you get paid. Then get an MBA if "business" is your thing.
 
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