go around on parallel runways

pilotod

pilotod

Pre-takeoff checklist
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eyeflying
I don't know if I did it right but I've been wondering. I was on the left and the landing plane was slow on their touch n go so I had to go around. I practically caught up to it on the go around at the end of the runway. They went left and I tried to stay slightly right. It just seemed like a bad situation since there's a runway on the right.
 
uncontrolled field? was there another plane operating on the right? in these sort of situations the proper course of action depends completely on the individual situation. options include going to the right like you did if there is no conflicting traffic coming off the right runway, or perhaps turning crosswind earlier than normal to get inside of the traffic going around, depending on what other traffic is already in the pattern.
 
controlled. the tower commented that "that was a close one."
 
pilotod said:
controlled. the tower commented that "that was a close one."
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Did you See and did you Avoid? Then you are good. :D

Could you have safely turned crosswind early to avoid the near overrun?
 
not sure about turning crosswind but the left taxiway is frequently used for helicopter ops and I don't think I had that memory bank opened to recall that at the time.

alfadog said:
Did you See and did you Avoid? Then you are good. :D

Could you have safely turned crosswind early to avoid the near overrun?
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Sounds like the tower screwed up. If he was on the go, but too slow for you behind, they should have given you some direction like offset to the left and make early cross-wind.

Did the tower give you any heads up or recommend you slow down/s-turn while you were number 2 for the runway?
 
With parallel runways, you normally go around up the middle between the two runways and hope nobody on the other runway has to do the same at the same time. And at a tower-controlled airport, listen for direction from the tower, too.
 
nope and that's good to know that the tower could have (should have) offered some assistance. The plane in front had been slow all the way around the pattern even though the tower told me to extend my downwind and I complied.

Fearless Tower said:
Sounds like the tower screwed up. If he was on the go, but too slow for you behind, they should have given you some direction like offset to the left and make early cross-wind.

Did the tower give you any heads up or recommend you slow down/s-turn while you were number 2 for the runway?
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Ron Levy said:
With parallel runways, you normally go around up the middle between the two runways and hope nobody on the other runway has to do the same at the same time. And at a tower-controlled airport, listen for direction from the tower, too.
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Interesting - MYF tower always tells the go-around to offset to the outboard side of the parallel.
 
pilotod said:
nope and that's good to know that the tower could have (should have) offered some assistance. The plane in front had been slow all the way around the pattern even though the tower told me to extend my downwind and I complied.
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In a situation like that where it has already been established that you are faster than the other guy, the tower should have directed you to make an early x-wind and told the slow-poke to extend his upwind and they call his x-wind. Sounds like they just left it up to ya'll to sort it out for yourselves.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Interesting - MYF tower always tells the go-around to offset to the outboard side of the parallel.
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Then at MYF you do what they say. However, going around to the "outboard" side invites a conflict if the aircraft you're overtaking turns crosswind in front of you as happened to the OP.

BTW, at most airports, the terms "inboard" and "outboard" refer to the sides nearer to or farther from the tower. Thus, if the parallel pair is 18/36, and the tower is on the east side, 18L/36R will be the "inboard" runway and 18R/36L will be the "outboard."
 
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Ron Levy said:
BTW, at most airports, the terms "inboard" and "outboard" refer to the sides nearer to or farther from the tower. Thus, if the parallel pair is 18/36, and the tower is on the east side, 18L/36R will be the "inboard" runway and 18R/36L will be the "outboard."
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Maybe, but you knew what I meant :D
 
pilotod said:
nope and that's good to know that the tower could have (should have) offered some assistance. The plane in front had been slow all the way around the pattern even though the tower told me to extend my downwind and I complied.
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I understand that under the new rules, the tower needs to report any balked landing attempt that ends up in a daily report to the local FSDO office and you may be getting a phone call. Did you file a NASA Form?

Also if they allowed a "that was close" operation, then they themselves had a control deviation. I'm amazed they did nothing to resolve it sooner.

Normally with parralle runways, the "go around" aircraft should consider going between the runways as the departure aircraft will turn left or right for their crosswind legs and you are in the middle.

For an approach to the right runway, to offset left puts the departing aircraft in your blind spot for a side by side aircraft. Need to watch for aircraft on the left runway and get yourself to a safe spot quickly.

Our non towered airport with parralle runways barely 300 ft centerline to centerline can get busy, but rarely a go around causes a problem.

Remember, it is not an uncontrolled airport, it is a non towered airport. There are controls in place in the AIM and in various Advisory Circulars. It's up to the pilot to follow the guidelines for everyone's safety.
 
I kinda expected something but didn't get a call and didn't file any form.

If I had filled out a form I would have stated that it appeared the plane (a Gobosh) took about 6000 feet of an 8000 ft runway on the ground before it lef thte ground and I was watching it all the way down just thinking it would take off.

BillTIZ said:
I understand that under the new rules, the tower needs to report any balked landing attempt that ends up in a daily report to the local FSDO office and you may be getting a phone call. Did you file a NASA Form?

Also if they allowed a "that was close" operation, then they themselves had a control deviation. I'm amazed they did nothing to resolve it sooner.

Normally with parralle runways, the "go around" aircraft should consider going between the runways as the departure aircraft will turn left or right for their crosswind legs and you are in the middle.

For an approach to the right runway, to offset left puts the departing aircraft in your blind spot for a side by side aircraft. Need to watch for aircraft on the left runway and get yourself to a safe spot quickly.

Our non towered airport with parralle runways barely 300 ft centerline to centerline can get busy, but rarely a go around causes a problem.

Remember, it is not an uncontrolled airport, it is a non towered airport. There are controls in place in the AIM and in various Advisory Circulars. It's up to the pilot to follow the guidelines for everyone's safety.
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8,000 feet? Just land behind him. Had tower cleared you to land? There are situations where two planes can operate on the same runway and I'm pretty sure this would qualify. I know one of the planes being a jet disqualifies.
 
tower said go around when I was about 100' above the runway.

Captain said:
8,000 feet? Just land behind him. Had tower cleared you to land? There are situations where two planes can operate on the same runway and I'm pretty sure this would qualify. I know one of the planes being a jet disqualifies.
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pilotod said:
tower said go around when I was about 100' above the runway.
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Sounds like the tower got caught flat-footed. They should have told the traffic to "expedite take-off for landing traffic".
 
BillTIZ said:
.......Normally with parralle runways, the "go around" aircraft should consider going between the runways as the departure aircraft will turn left or right for their crosswind legs and you are in the middle.

.
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Ok, I have a question..:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:..

How many airports are out there that have parallel runways and no tower?:dunno::dunno:.. Just curious ya know..:yesnod:
 
N801BH said:
Smart A$$...:D:D:D

And yeah.. I would like to hear about a grass strip with parallel runways.:yesnod:
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Come down to KFLY - Meadow Lake Airport near Colorado Springs. Runway 15 is paved and a parallel grass strip is off to the right used by gliders and their tow plane. Uncontrolled field (as in no control tower). I believe Boulder Colorado has a similar situation. The old Fort Collins Downtown Airport, may it rest in peace, also had a parallel grass runway in season.

Scott
 
N801BH said:
Ok, I have a question..:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:..

How many airports are out there that have parallel runways and no tower?:dunno::dunno:.. Just curious ya know..:yesnod:
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Have a looksee at Liberal, KS...report back.

The OP was at BJC and the tower guys are usually pretty good. They do have a fair training load so maybe a trainee controller didn't handle things well. The OP does need to be proactive on final and work out spacing with the tower. It doesn't hurt to ask the tower about spacing and make corrections as required.

(I trained for my PP at BJC)
 
pilotod said:
I don't know if I did it right but I've been wondering. I was on the left and the landing plane was slow on their touch n go so I had to go around. I practically caught up to it on the go around at the end of the runway. They went left and I tried to stay slightly right. It just seemed like a bad situation since there's a runway on the right.
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How far from the threshold was the touch and go aircraft when you crossed the threshold?
 
Also, you said you were told to extend your downwind and you did. Did the tower call your base or did you just turn when you felt spacing was okay.
 
N801BH said:
Here in Jackson Hole the Serco tower needs 3000 feet between aircraft..
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FTG is similar...I'll call them on final and ensure that they're okay with spacing when it "feels" close.
 
It was just about 2/3rds of the way down a 7000' runway at KBJC.

roncachamp said:
How far from the threshold was the touch and go aircraft when you crossed the threshold?
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I don't recall if tower said to turn or not. I wish I could remember that. Being green at a controlled airport doing my solo there I was just doing what either I was told by the tower or trying to keep my spacing from the Gobosh. I could tell I was catching up to him but I was doing a standard climb out and then standard pattern approach in a 172.

Captain said:
Also, you said you were told to extend your downwind and you did. Did the tower call your base or did you just turn when you felt spacing was okay.
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pilotod said:
nope and that's good to know that the tower could have (should have) offered some assistance. The plane in front had been slow all the way around the pattern even though the tower told me to extend my downwind and I complied.
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You were following this other traffic in the pattern?
 
Fearless Tower said:
In a situation like that where it has already been established that you are faster than the other guy, the tower should have directed you to make an early x-wind and told the slow-poke to extend his upwind and they call his x-wind. Sounds like they just left it up to ya'll to sort it out for yourselves.
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Too high an expectation? Sorting it out themselves is done regularly at nontowered fields.
 
N801BH said:
Ok, I have a question..:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:..

How many airports are out there that have parallel runways and no tower?:dunno::dunno:.. Just curious ya know..:yesnod:
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0L7, Jean NV, no tower
BVU, Boulder City NV, no tower, although the shorter of the parralle is often closed, designed for ultralights
VGT, North Las Vegas NV, tower
LAS, Las Vegas, NV, Class B, double parralle
HND, Henderson NV, tower

All in one valley.
 
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pilotod said:
I kinda expected something but didn't get a call and didn't file any form.

If I had filled out a form I would have stated that it appeared the plane (a Gobosh) took about 6000 feet of an 8000 ft runway on the ground before it lef thte ground and I was watching it all the way down just thinking it would take off.
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How far were you behind that aircraft? Minimum same runway separation between piston singles is 3000 feet, perhaps the tower took no action because no action was needed.
 
roncachamp said:
Then minimum same runway separation was present, you could have landed behind the other traffic.
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Assuming it was daytime, correct?

And he stated that the Tower called his go-around. His landing clearance was revoked.

I agree with you on this on though, Ron... If it was daytime they should have just allowed the dual landing.

The tower controller may have been just as confused as the OP about why the Gobosh just kept rolling and rolling and wondered if he had a problem.

KAPA across town will let the simultaneous operation happen but would prefer it not. I can't speak for KBJC.

Go-arounds at KAPA are usually called out with a direction to offset. If you're landing 35L and 35R is clear, they'll let you slide over top of it. If not, they'll usually use the "early cross-wind when able" for the landing aircraft, assuming there's no one in the downwind.
 
roncachamp said:
Then minimum same runway separation was present, you could have landed behind the other traffic.
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Not after the tower told him to go around, unless it was there was an emergency requiring him to land. 91.123(b) applies.
(b) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.
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In any event, it's easy to second-guess the controller, but unless you were in the tower when it happened, you really don't have the perspective or all the information to make that call. From a pilot perspective, once instructed to go around, you do that unless there's an emergency requiring you to do otherwise.

Also, when you look at the 3000/4500/6000 foot minimum separation distances in the controller's book, remember that those are minimums, not standards. The controller can decide to make more space or stop things before it gets to that point if s/he feels that's necessary for safety in the particular situation. I do not criticize controllers who trade expeditiousness for an extra safety margin when they feel the situation merits it.
 
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denverpilot said:
Assuming it was daytime, correct?
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Correct.

And he stated that the Tower called his go-around. His landing clearance was revoked.
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Yes, but since separation was not an issue it's likely the go around was called for another reason.

The tower controller may have been just as confused as the OP about why the Gobosh just kept rolling and rolling and wondered if he had a problem.
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Perhaps, but if the OP's distance estimate is correct there was about 4700' of runway available behind that rolling aircraft. Hard to imagine what problem involving just those aircraft could be corrected with a go around.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not after the tower told him to go around, unless it was there was an emergency requiring him to land. 91.123(b) applies.
In any event, it's easy to second-guess the controller, but unless you were in the tower when it happened, you really don't have the perspective or all the information to make that call. From a pilot perspective, once instructed to go around, you do that unless there's an emergency requiring you to do otherwise.

Also, when you look at the 3000/4500/6000 foot minimum separation distances in the controller's book, remember that those are minimums, not standards. The controller can decide to make more space or stop things before it gets to that point if s/he feels that's necessary for safety in the particular situation. I do not criticize controllers who trade expeditiousness for an extra safety margin when they feel the situation merits it.
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You have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
 
BillTIZ said:
I
Also if they allowed a "that was close" operation, then they themselves had a control deviation. I'm amazed they did nothing to resolve it sooner.
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Control deviation?? Really??

Visual separation was maintained by at least one pilot.

Class D provides separation on the runway. Only one was on the runway at a time.
 
roncachamp said:
You have an amazing grasp of the obvious.
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Then why did you suggest in post #33 that the pilot could have landed after that go-around call if the required separation was present? The FAA does seem to frown on such behavior by pilots.
 
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