glides like a safe

Not realistic at all. It won't stall the engine. However in a real life engine out situation the propeller isn't going to do squat if you don't have oil pressure.
 
DavidWhite said:
Pa44 on one engine almost comes down as fast as a 172 without an engine. The Seminole is undoubtedly the second biggest pile of **** I have ever flown.
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LOL I hear ya but its funny how they grew on me. I love flying them now, for some reason. As far as ever owning one? Well, I damn sure would never give piper $600k for one.
 
ProspectingCFI said:
LOL I hear ya but its funny how they grew on me. I love flying them now, for some reason. As far as ever owning one? Well, I damn sure would never give piper $600k for one.
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There's a flight school out of my old home airport that bought a new one from Piper and it is the biggest pile of junk.....I got my multi in it.
 
Actually I got city-slicked into it by a cute CFI. It was kinds like getting a massage from a hot masseuse - you have hopes that you might get a jibber. You're like "It probably won't happen - but it miiiiiiiiiight." And just like after a massage, you feel good, but are slightly disappointed. Same with my CMEL.
 
whifferdill said:
Yep, I love that about my Pitts. You can slip it in from impossibly high angles. Gives you lots of options as long as you can glide to a spot in the first place. Looks like this thread has everyone listing airplanes they think glide like a "safe". A little time in a Pitts S-2C with that big "Claw" Hartzell doing power-off approaches will make these other airplanes seem like great gliders. :) Mine with the fixed pitch prop doesn't come down quite as fast as the C.
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The S2B in my avitar has the claw. It comes down like an anvil. Nothing would beat my Nanchang CJ6 with the gear and flaps out power off not even the Pitts. Don
 
You don't know gliding like a safe until you've flown the Shuttle. Or the sim at the Air and Space museum. It's allegedly extremely accurate. Working there we get to play around with it from time to time (when it's working). It's pretty wild being on final at 16,000 ft.
 
DavidWhite said:
Actually I got city-slicked into it by a cute CFI. It was kinds like getting a massage from a hot masseuse - you have hopes that you might get a jibber. You're like "It probably won't happen - but it miiiiiiiiiight." And just like after a massage, you feel good, but are slightly disappointed. Same with my CMEL.
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You have got to make this your new signature line! :yes:
 
DavidWhite said:
Not realistic at all. It won't stall the engine. However in a real life engine out situation the propeller isn't going to do squat if you don't have oil pressure.
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What is CTM ?
 
Silvaire said:
This actually has nothing to do with glide ratio as your best rate is probably up around 90 kts or so. Having the ability to come down like a wall safe under complete control and flare at the bottom is a good and very useful flight characteristic.
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That's why the gear retracts. You throw out gear and full flaps in the Navion and you're leaning forward against the belts as it comes down steep and slow to the runway. Some find it a little disconcerting, but it's handy that it only takes 850 of ground roll (and 1100 over a 50' obstacle).
 
BillTIZ said:
Took my Commercial check ride in an Arrow. DPE pulls the power for a sim engine out, I find a thermal and start climbing. "if this keeps up we just might make it to the airport", DPE was not happy :rofl:

Arrows glide just fine :dunno:
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You are my hero. :D :rofl:
 
whifferdill said:
Yep, I love that about my Pitts. You can slip it in from impossibly high angles. Gives you lots of options as long as you can glide to a spot in the first place. Looks like this thread has everyone listing airplanes they think glide like a "safe". A little time in a Pitts S-2C with that big "Claw" Hartzell doing power-off approaches will make these other airplanes seem like great gliders. :) Mine with the fixed pitch prop doesn't come down quite as fast as the C.
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You fly out of TTA by chance??
 
BillTIZ said:
Took my Commercial check ride in an Arrow. DPE pulls the power for a sim engine out, I find a thermal and start climbing. "if this keeps up we just might make it to the airport", DPE was not happy :rofl:

Arrows glide just fine :dunno:
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That's fantastic. :rofl:
 
whifferdill said:
Yep, I'm the "crazy" kamikaze approach guy. This view should familiar to you then...or not. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AaBCIZRspA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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I was gonna list the Bell 407 thinking I'd school everyone but I bow down to you sir!:drool:

In all seriousness, the Arrow flies fine in my opinion. I flew the plane a few times during my private training and I never had anything but a smooth landing it it. I have like ~10 hrs in it.

I wonder if you guys are flying the short stubby winged ones. I flew a short stubby winged Archer the other day and that thing was doing -500 fpm on final with the throttle at 25%. Not to say that it was horrible. It just didn't do well at those speeds. It flew awesome otherwise and it was incredibly easy to land. I say this because most of my experience is in the larger winged pipers.
 
jpower said:
You don't know gliding like a safe until you've flown the Shuttle. Or the sim at the Air and Space museum. It's allegedly extremely accurate. Working there we get to play around with it from time to time (when it's working). It's pretty wild being on final at 16,000 ft.
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Yeah, I've flown that Sim. That's not flying -- that's "falling with style"...
:D
 
KeithASanford said:
Maybe it's me, but the Cherokee 180 I train in is a stone. I'm seriously struggling with getting it to flare.
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Yes the Hershey bar flys like a smooth rock when you cut the power
As far as the flare, read the poh for the pa28 there is special emphasis placed on normal ops when in the landing flare. The has been more then a couple gear struts pushed through the top of the wing.
GeorgeC said:
I did not appreciate the meaning of the expression "glides like a safe" until starting complex transition training in a pa28-r 200 today. It definitely feels like a lot of airplane compared to the types I've been in up until now.
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Jay Honeck said:
Yeah, I've flown that Sim. That's not flying -- that's "falling with style"...
:D
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So I just had to see if I could find a video of it, and I did. Because most people here haven't flown it, you can get an idea of the glide path from this video. Jump to about 0:40 to see it. Pretty ridiculous.


(Also, I'm not sure who was working the sim that day, but he definitely sounds like he had something better to be doing...)
 
yakdriver said:
Looks like a typical Pitts approach to me.
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Exactly. But I'm the only acro bipe (or biplane period) at my airport, which includes a flight school and lots of training activity, so via lack of exposure, many see it as some sort of radical approach. I've been told that some think I'm crazy. :) Yes, it's very different from a 3-degree 1-mile straight in, but it's done for a reason. Not that I need to tell you.
 
I got my complex in a 1969 PA-28R-200. Hershy bar wings and all. CFI said it had "safe mode" glide, in that it glides like one. How true. Cruising along he pulled the power. I looked over to my left, saw a runway I could make in a 172 without stressing and headed for it. We would not have made it. Not even close.

Then, downwind at 1000 AGL he pulled the power abeam the numbers. I turned for the runway NOW and dropped the gear on short final. Just made it. Coming in to that airport earlier at about 3000 AGL he pulled the power and I made 1 360 while dropping out of the sky. Dropped the gear on short final and landed.

Oh, and I have NEVER bounced a landing in that plane. The mains touch down and it is finished flying. Every time. I've had some landing that probably registered on local seisemometers as they qualified as "arrivals", but never has that plane bounced. I can't make the same claim about 172s.
 
The king in GA steinway piano glide ratios is the Bellanca Viking - I saw 3000fpm pegged on the meter at idle, gear and flaps out, 45 degree slip emergency descent in mine. Thats 30nmph down.
 
comanchepilot said:
The king in GA steinway piano glide ratios is the Bellanca Viking - I saw 3000fpm pegged on the meter at idle, gear and flaps out, 45 degree slip emergency descent in mine. Thats 30nmph down.
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Similar performance in the old BE-55. Pull the nose up for 140 mph, drop the gear and a notch of flaps and you get close to 4000 FPM at 140 mph.
 
Wrapped up the complex endorsement today. Engine outs were enlightening.
 
timfountain said:
+1

Oh yes, those stubby hershey-bar wings give the Aztec the same gliding capabilities as a frozen oven-ready turkey.
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Pilots tend to think an airplane is a lousy glider because it has a high sink rate but as long as the best glide speed is proportionately high the glide ratio will be "normal". It is true that with unfaired gear hanging out many retractables glide more steeply than similar FG airplanes but I'd be surprised if an Aztec wouldn't glide about as well as most Piper singles if you leave the gear and flaps up with both props feathered.
 
Flew a Tri Pacer a couple of days ago. Been a few years since I'd flown one. It glides like a brick with power off full flaps.
 
timfountain said:
Oh yes, those stubby hershey-bar wings give the Aztec the same gliding capabilities as a frozen oven-ready turkey.
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I though turkeys could fly.?.

Really, with God as my witness.
 
wanttaja said:
Snort. Try an open-cockpit wire-braced plane like a Fly Baby, if you want to experience a lack of glide ability. Throw a brick out and fly formation with it....
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Yup, that's how I feel every time I pull the power back in the Stearman, I can actually feel the deceleration...
 
I thought retracts were supposed to fly like safes with flaps and gear out. That's why the emergency procedure says to keep em up til short final.
 
Apparently I'm the only one with Yankee experience here.
It glides quite nicely, untill you compare it with safes, and bricks. Then it doesn't glide at all.
The Cherokees that I'm familiar with, can hold their own with a 172 or 177, but they cover a lot more ground.
 
gismo said:
Pilots tend to think an airplane is a lousy glider because it has a high sink rate but as long as the best glide speed is proportionately high the glide ratio will be "normal". It is true that with unfaired gear hanging out many retractables glide more steeply than similar FG airplanes but I'd be surprised if an Aztec wouldn't glide about as well as most Piper singles if you leave the gear and flaps up with both props feathered.
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What folks aren't taking into account is the drag of the windmilling props. A twin has twice as much drag area with windmilling props vs a single. Feather those props and one might be amazed at just how well they do glide.
 
A few years ago we did emergency descents and simulated single engine and both engine outs in a friends Paris Jet. I was amazed and scared at the same time. Ever since that day I wanted to be on short final at 3000 feet AGL on every flight in case of a engine out.
 
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