Glider add-on to power certificate

Matthew

Matthew

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Matthew
I'm pretty sure I read on one of the forums about this, but I couldn't find it:

Getting an add on to a power certificate - does it require that the PP have a current flight review and medical in order to solo? I thought there was something recently about this, but I can't remember where I saw it. This just came up today. A guy in the glider club hasn't flown power in many years, and is wanting to add on a glider rating, but he needs a solo endorsement to do that.
 
No medical required for gliders...can't speak for the applicability of 61.56(g).
 
Oh hell, since I'm studying all this crap right now I'll take a shot at it. Your mileage may vary...

I'll go with: He isn't rated in Gliders so he doesn't need a flight review, for $500, Alex.

In fact, you're specifically disallowed from giving one in a an aircraft he's not rated for.

You can sign him off to fly it solo in the glider per your wishes, however, and must.

And interestingly he may also log that time as PIC under the "sole occupant" rule.

(Per Ye Olde EdFred Chart: http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/LoggingPIC.pdf)

Since it's a glider, no medical required.

Here's the interesting part. His new rating when you're finished resets his power FR clock. All he has to do is get a medical.

Soooooo... You may want to explain that, and cover some power stuff in ground school and discuss it, since besides a club checkout or similar, you'll be the last signature in his logbook before his DPEs signature for the non-power ride.

That's how I read it all... But I'm all ears if it's wrong.

(Oh, and since he's rated, you can go with the statement on the back of his card for English Proficiency and no need to send him through the anti-Terrorism stuff, I suppose. Small win. Ha.)

[Edit: Reference material: AC 61-98C ... http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_61-98c.pdf But it doesn't answer your question directly, the above is all inferred by the specific requirements.]
 
I'm doing that now, getting a glider add on. No medical required. What I've been told is I have to be current with a BFR before Glider is added to the certificate. I'm current so it's nothing to me. If I wasn't, a BFR would be included in the process and the clock would be reset for another 2 years. You can get a BFR in anything you are rated in and it's good for everything you're rated in. I haven't verified it but it makes sense.
 
luvflyin said:
I'm doing that now, getting a glider add on. No medical required. What I've been told is I have to be current with a BFR before Glider is added to the certificate. I'm current so it's nothing to me. If I wasn't, a BFR would be included in the process and the clock would be reset for another 2 years. You can get a BFR in anything you are rated in and it's good for everything you're rated in. I haven't verified it but it makes sense.
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This is what I thought, too. It's an add on to an existing rating, so there is no student certificate for solo. That means you need a current certificate to solo, and that means a current flight review (correct?) In this guy's case, he hasn't flown in about 20 years and wasn't looking to spend a lot of $ on airplanes and CFIs in order to solo a glider.
 
Matthew said:
This is what I thought, too. It's an add on to an existing rating, so there is no student certificate for solo. That means you need a current certificate to solo, and that means a current flight review (correct?) In this guy's case, he hasn't flown in about 20 years and wasn't looking to spend a lot of $ on airplanes and CFIs in order to solo a glider.
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I don't know exactly what the FAR says, but that sounds like it. They were real happy when they found out I had a current BFR. They said the problem they have with out of BFR power pilots doing the add on is the they have to get them current first.
 
Well there is a whole **** show thread on that over on RAS.

Problem stems from the FAA Chief Counsel Issuing an interpretation of 61.56

http://www.ssa.org/GeneralNews?show=blog&id=4139

FAA says you have to have a current flight review to solo a glider. since they are not rated in the glider they will need the flight review in whatever they are authorized to fly. I don't know if you can get a flight review with an expired medical though. I'm guessing no.
 
YOu can get a flight review without a medical...
 
you do not need a medical to complete a flight review. you only need a medical to act as PIC in an operation that requires a medical. This does mean that the CFI will have to be able and qualified to act as PIC for the flight in which the flight review is completed.
 
tonycondon said:
you do not need a medical to complete a flight review. you only need a medical to act as PIC in an operation that requires a medical. This does mean that the CFI will have to be able and qualified to act as PIC for the flight in which the flight review is completed.
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Of course, that's true with or without a medical...if the reviewee doesn't have a current Flight Review, the CFI has to act as PIC.
 
All above is what I found out this morning at the Gliderport. The way they handle it is enroll the pilot in the Wings program and then take them up in one of their tow planes, a Cub, to check off some manuever boxes. No, they don't have to take off or land so the traildragger thing isn't an issue. Supposedly this is all going to change very soon. An Advisory Circular is being prepared that will take it back to the old days before the above mentioned Johhny Cochrane wannabe's legal interpretation. They expect it in a matter of weeks.
 
luvflyin said:
All above is what I found out this morning at the Gliderport. The way they handle it is enroll the pilot in the Wings program and then take them up in one of their tow planes, a Cub, to check off some manuever boxes. No, they don't have to take off or land so the traildragger thing isn't an issue. Supposedly this is all going to change very soon. An Advisory Circular is being prepared that will take it back to the old days before the above mentioned Johhny Cochrane wannabe's legal interpretation. They expect it in a matter of weeks.
Click to expand...

That's in interesting work-around. I'll pass that along.
 
luvflyin said:
All above is what I found out this morning at the Gliderport. The way they handle it is enroll the pilot in the Wings program and then take them up in one of their tow planes, a Cub, to check off some manuever boxes. No, they don't have to take off or land so the traildragger thing isn't an issue. Supposedly this is all going to change very soon. An Advisory Circular is being prepared that will take it back to the old days before the above mentioned Johhny Cochrane wannabe's legal interpretation. They expect it in a matter of weeks.
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Its a little more complicated than that, but probably doable.
They will have to complete 3 flight credits, one from each of the 3 topics. I am not sure which flight activities they can do that don't include Take-offs and landings. The 2 of the 3 I typically use include take-offs and landings, A100125-07 A070405-07 and A070405-14. Done correctly, the pilot is supposed to be able demonstrate each task to PTS standards.

Then of course the pilot will have to complete 3 ground credits, but this is pretty easy and can be done online.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
luvflyin said:
All above is what I found out this morning at the Gliderport. The way they handle it is enroll the pilot in the Wings program and then take them up in one of their tow planes, a Cub, to check off some manuever boxes. No, they don't have to take off or land so the traildragger thing isn't an issue. Supposedly this is all going to change very soon. An Advisory Circular is being prepared that will take it back to the old days before the above mentioned Johhny Cochrane wannabe's legal interpretation. They expect it in a matter of weeks.
Click to expand...

If you are going to do that, you don't need the Wings program, but it is a great idea to get them involved. Yes they can get their ground training credit on Wings online, or one hour with the CFI, and 1hr in the airplane, and I would think landings would be a required part of that, but it's up to the CFI.

Great if you have a glider club with a two seat tow plane that can be used for instruction other than tow pilot training. Our tow is single seat, so we don't have that option.
 
denverpilot said:
Oh hell, since I'm studying all this crap right now I'll take a shot at it. Your mileage may vary...

I'll go with: He isn't rated in Gliders so he doesn't need a flight review, for $500, Alex.

In fact, you're specifically disallowed from giving one in a an aircraft he's not rated for.

You can sign him off to fly it solo in the glider per your wishes, however, and must.

And interestingly he may also log that time as PIC under the "sole occupant" rule.

(Per Ye Olde EdFred Chart: http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/LoggingPIC.pdf)

Since it's a glider, no medical required.

Here's the interesting part. His new rating when you're finished resets his power FR clock. All he has to do is get a medical.

Soooooo... You may want to explain that, and cover some power stuff in ground school and discuss it, since besides a club checkout or similar, you'll be the last signature in his logbook before his DPEs signature for the non-power ride.

That's how I read it all... But I'm all ears if it's wrong.

(Oh, and since he's rated, you can go with the statement on the back of his card for English Proficiency and no need to send him through the anti-Terrorism stuff, I suppose. Small win. Ha.)

[Edit: Reference material: AC 61-98C ... http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_61-98c.pdf But it doesn't answer your question directly, the above is all inferred by the specific requirements.]
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Wrong answer according to the FAA legal interpretation listed in other posts.
 
luvflyin said:
All above is what I found out this morning at the Gliderport. The way they handle it is enroll the pilot in the Wings program and then take them up in one of their tow planes, a Cub, to check off some manuever boxes. No, they don't have to take off or land so the traildragger thing isn't an issue. Supposedly this is all going to change very soon. An Advisory Circular is being prepared that will take it back to the old days before the above mentioned Johhny Cochrane wannabe's legal interpretation. They expect it in a matter of weeks.
Click to expand...

That would be great! One response was that FAA said until the rule was changed their hands were tied.
The FAA basically said that they don't trust that the glider CFI would not cover all required academic and flight maneuvers for safe solo operations before letting a rusty pilot loose.
 
BillTIZ said:
Oh, the, not a lawyer? I had not gotten that far.
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Heh. I should have said, "All of this studying seems pretty worthless when they just make law up now via letters from lawyers." ;)

This one isn't too bad, actually - I get why the lawyer went the direction he did, but it does kinda not pass the smell test of original intent.

Requiring an FR of someone rated in a different class, who'd be doing the exact same stuff a Student Pilot Certificate holder would do without it, seems well... retarded.
 
A BFR in ANYTHING you're rated for being good for EVERYTHING you're rated in sets the stage for this controversy. Maybe that should be changed.

I soloed yesterday. I had no idea it was coming. It was cold and windy so I wouldn't let them pour water on me because I hadn't brought a change of clothes. They weren't to happy about that but decided to let me off the hook with the "senior citizen discount."
 
luvflyin said:
A BFR in ANYTHING you're rated for being good for EVERYTHING you're rated in sets the stage for this controversy. Maybe that should be changed.

I soloed yesterday. I had no idea it was coming. It was cold and windy so I wouldn't let them pour water on me because I hadn't brought a change of clothes. They weren't to happy about that but decided to let me off the hook with the "senior citizen discount."
Click to expand...


I hope they never change the fr in one is good for everything. That would make life miserable for people rated in multiple categories and classes. As it is now I keep a current flight review in something and can self evaluate my proficiency for any flight and make appropriate decisions. I don't need the FAA telling my what I'm capable of at any given time in a particular category/class.
 
Besides a BFR is hardly sufficient for actual proficiency. It's sort of a last ditch minimum. Frankly, I think they could do away with a lot of other nonsense if they had a FORMAL lesson plan for the ground portion. They could put their "special concentration" stuff there and allow pilots to practice or obtain instruction for whatever they needed beyond that on their own.
 
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