Glasair III owner here - intoduction

Welcome Todd! Just curious on your Glasair, does it have the wing extensions? Do the wing extensions do all that much to lower the stall speed?
 
Dav8or said:
Welcome Todd! Just curious on your Glasair, does it have the wing extensions? Do the wing extensions do all that much to lower the stall speed?
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On the Glasair's ive flow with vs without tip extensions it's an honest 4-5 mph difference.
 
Dav8or said:
Welcome Todd! Just curious on your Glasair, does it have the wing extensions? Do the wing extensions do all that much to lower the stall speed?
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I stalled it with the short tips, but not the long. I am told the stall speed is about 5 knots less. I can tell you this - it is about 7 knots faster at 12k than the short tips, glides better with power off, and lands nicely without power in the flare.

I primarily wanted the long tips for the extra fuel, shorter takeoff distance, and faster speeds at altitude. The 90/sec roll rate reduced from 140/sec did not concern me. I might roll it a few times per year and loop it once of twice in my life. Being an old man at 43 aerobatics no longer interest me. When I owned my TS-11 Iskra jet at age 27 I enjoyed the tricks - now I just want to get there safely.:D
 
Hey - didn't you know the price of a duke has double in the past few days? All due to the ebola news :yikes: :rofl:
 
Watched a bit of your vid.. very pretty plane. Glad your enjoying it. Best traveling machine for a couple being so fast and relatively inexpensive to fly and maintain. I've been loving mine since 2006 and if you have any questions feel free to hit me up. I'll try to help.
 
N321SR said:
Watched a bit of your vid.. very pretty plane. Glad your enjoying it. Best traveling machine for a couple being so fast and relatively inexpensive to fly and maintain. I've been loving mine since 2006 and if you have any questions feel free to hit me up. I'll try to help.
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Thanks for the reply. Yes great airplane and so easy to fly. Just goes where you point it. Would like some more speed - maybe 11:0 pistons and de-ice. Other than that, just a joy to fly.
 
Coincidentally I just had my engine rebuilt at Barrett and went with the 10:1 compression. Dyno'd out at 330hp but the 30 extra ponies really only netted about 6 extra knots. I'd caution against 11:1 for a traveling machine as it's just not enough margin for detonation. I'd say your best option for the most speed increase would be to get a 2 blade prop. Sure three is sexy but on our plane is too much drag. The slight shift rear in the cg envelope with the lighter prop will net you more knots as well. I had a new panel put in and the removal of a lot of old avionics in the aft shifted my cg 1 inch foreward and I lost 8 knots.
 
Thanks for that info. What is your weight and CG?

I'm pretty heavy right now with the new paint, tips, avionics, and extended baggage fuel. I also have a very heavy 3-bladed prop that is built for a PA32. I am getting 215 knots at 12k WOT/2500 RPM and 12.5-13 GPH. I am told the scimitar 3-blade will get me another 5-7 knots and would be the same as the 2-blade. While the more rear CG would make me faster I don't want to get too tail heavy as I routinely carry 100 lbs in the baggage area.

What are you seeing for performance?
 
I get 223 kts wot 2500rpm and stays pretty much constant at anything over 10k since the loss of power matches closely the decrease in drag as the altitude increases in this plane. I typically cruise above 15k at 17-18in/2300rpm @~12gph just barely ROP @215-218 kts. LOP ~10gph @ 205kts give or take depending on the day.

As long as you stay in the 80-82 inch arm your perfectly ok with balance. The Glasair III is very easy to load and it's hard to fit enough stuff in the baggage area to take balance aft of the limit. After a couple years of preflight W&B.. you'll probably find, as I did, unless your hauling lead bricks it's a waste of time doing the math.

My empty weight is 1772 at arm 80in. If I could get the cg aft by one more inch that would probably net another 5 knots. But I'd have to move the battery behind the baggage compartment or buy a $20k composite prop.

All I can recommend is do your research on 2 vs 3 blade props on this airframe before you buy if your goal is speed. More then a couple Glasair drivers bought 3 blade MT's or whirlwinds and suffered the loss of quite a bit of speed. With your engine, regardless of airframe weight, if it's rigged properly with the right prop should get at least 220kts.
 
Thanks for that info. I have a 11-gallon baggage tank that is about 73 lbs when full and I usually have at least 100 lbs back there total. I also like the way the 3-blade prop is like a brake when the power is pulled back. It really helps to slow down the plane. I also like the shortened take-off distance and the look of the 3-blade is worth 5 knots to me. According to some folks I have talked to they have replaced their 2-blade Glasair-tweaked Hartzell for the Glasair-tweaked Scimitar 3-blade and the top speeds are the same, but the take-off performance is increased. The guys at reno are all using the Scimitar prop as well, but I am pretty sure the blades are thinner.

I am at 215 knots now with my draggy PA32 prop, so if I can get 220 knots at 13k with the Scimitar I will be happy enough that I won't pursue the higher compression pistons.

I'm ordering the 3-blade Scimitar Monday. Should have it before Christmas :)
 
I must admit to knowing little about the scimitar design so it will be very interesting to see how it all works out for you. Keep us posted on your progress building the perfect traveling machine. And if your ever headed out west.. love to to see your beautiful plane in person.
 
I'm not sure it is just the Scimitar design that is optimal. I know the design is supposedly more quiet and slightly more efficient, but I am assuming that the blade is tweaked for the higher cruise speeds we use. My current prop is optimized for planes that cruise in the 130-180 TAS range with VNEs of 190. The Glasair is capable of 205-240 knot cruise speeds and a VNE of 294, so the blade design is different along with the high speed stop setting of 40 degrees instead of 31. We shall see. It is roughly a $9000 upgrade for me to find out. $12,700 for the new prop and my old prop that is in excellent condition is probably worth $3500-$4000 for a PA32 driver needing one.
 
Here is "before" and "during" for my panel work. Looking forward to "after."
 

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Looks familiar! While mine isn't flying yet....I'm installing the panel for the final time. (Yes, you actually build these things three or four times before you actualy get it "built".
 

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That's funny.. I have some of the same.. 'Glasair old panel-wiring disaster-new panel' pics myself.

Todd... are you keeping the VM1000 or going with another engine monitor?
 

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Here is another interesting before, during and after set.
 

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Nice to see people still engaged in flying and upgrading their Glasair's out there. For much of the time building my Glasair III I have felt that no one out there still had an interest in them. Now I'm seeing a few of the flying Glasair IIIs being upgraded with their panels etc.. Good to know that after five years building, mine won't be the only one out there flying!
 
I hope you both will consider joining glasair aircraft association. It's not expensive and there is a lot of knowledge available and like minded people on the site. It is the "official" builders and flyer site for Glassair too. Www.glastarnet.org
 
N321SR said:
That's funny.. I have some of the same.. 'Glasair old panel-wiring disaster-new panel' pics myself.

Todd... are you keeping the VM1000 or going with another engine monitor?
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I am going all Garmin integrated into the G3X touch. It includes all of the engine monitoring equipment and will replace my warning annunciator lights as well.
 
Todd Copeland said:
I hope you both will consider joining glasair aircraft association. It's not expensive and there is a lot of knowledge available and like minded people on the site. It is the "official" builders and flyer site for Glassair too. Www.glastarnet.org
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I would consider it, but it does not seem to have a whole lot of information about the original Glasair series. The primary focus is on the Sportman and Glastar from what I can tell. These planes are so far different than mine that it makes it hard to find what I am looking for. Even the factory seems to not be very sharp on the GI-III series as I had to tell them the part number for the prop they have available to sell to me.

I can understand why, though. $70k for a kit, $60k for an engine, $13k for a prop, $40k for avionics, $30k in extras, and that is if you do it all yourself. The guy that built mine probably had $350k in it. I doubt if any kits are selling, so staying well versed in the product is probably tough.
 
Todd Copeland said:
Nice to see people still engaged in flying and upgrading their Glasair's out there. For much of the time building my Glasair III I have felt that no one out there still had an interest in them. Now I'm seeing a few of the flying Glasair IIIs being upgraded with their panels etc.. Good to know that after five years building, mine won't be the only one out there flying!
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It's too bad they don't offer a two weeks to taxi program for the speedy Glasairs. That might bring more interest to the type. I guess the landing gear alone would probably take two weeks, I suppose.
 
toddsanderson said:
I can understand why, though. $70k for a kit, $60k for an engine, $13k for a prop, $40k for avionics, $30k in extras, and that is if you do it all yourself. The guy that built mine probably had $350k in it. I doubt if any kits are selling, so staying well versed in the product is probably tough.
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Yep. Crazy expensive and they take way longer to build. Now the kits have to compete with the used market. People are just doing what you did, buy somebodies completed plane and save a load of money and all that time.

Vans really has found that sweet spot. I wonder how much potential kit buyers are put off by fiberglass? I know I am.
 
If they can do it with a turbine Lancair Evolution they could do it with a Glasair. I did some fairly good research on the Glasair and was very confident with my decision that it is the best all around X-country traveling machine for 2 people. The strength of the airframe and the choice of a Lycoming engine as standard were the primary factors.


What I believe would really help the Glasair III would be the integration of a parachute and de-ice as a factory option. The chute would be nice for those spouses that could feel better about their chances of surviving if their pilot died in flight. The De-ice would certainly help where I live.
 
toddsanderson said:
If they can do it with a turbine Lancair Evolution they could do it with a Glasair. I did some fairly good research on the Glasair and was very confident with my decision that it is the best all around X-country traveling machine for 2 people. The strength of the airframe and the choice of a Lycoming engine as standard were the primary factors.


What I believe would really help the Glasair III would be the integration of a parachute and de-ice as a factory option. The chute would be nice for those spouses that could feel better about their chances of surviving if their pilot died in flight. The De-ice would certainly help where I live.
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The parachute would really help sell the plane to me although I shudder to think how much more the plane would cost. I would also build mine with the airbag seat belts. The issue I have with these two seat speedsters is what happens when the engine quits. The more I keep flying, the more I realize that all these engines quit at some point.

An off field landing in either Glasair, Lancair, Questair, or Swearingen is a scary proposition to me. My interest in the Glasair is primarily because the company has made an effort to improve the low speed envelope of the plane with the wing extensions and the slotted flaps. This should give the Glasair the edge in the farmer's field scenario.
 
Dav8or said:
The parachute would really help sell the plane to me although I shudder to think how much more the plane would cost. I would also build mine with the airbag seat belts. The issue I have with these two seat speedsters is what happens when the engine quits. The more I keep flying, the more I realize that all these engines quit at some point.

An off field landing in either Glasair, Lancair, Questair, or Swearingen is a scary proposition to me. My interest in the Glasair is primarily because the company has made an effort to improve the low speed envelope of the plane with the wing extensions and the slotted flaps. This should give the Glasair the edge in the farmer's field scenario.
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Dave,

Yes - you and I think alike. I would gladly pay another $20k to have a parachute. That is much less expensive than a 2nd engine. And yes, I put the long tips on mine for the purpose of less ground roll, higher speeds at altitude, and certainly for the reduced stall speed and sink rate.

As for landing in the field, you might actually be safer in the Glasair than a certified plane. You DO NOT lower the gear on anything other than a runway or known hard surface. 2 Reasons for this - First, the gear down makes you rate of descent about 4k per minute at 120 knots. With the gear up it is less than 1/2 of that. Next, if you do put it in a field the airframe will take the abuse and so will the wing. Thee have been a few Glasairs landed off field when the plane was simply jacked up, gear locked down, powerplant failure rectified, and flown out of the area. The airframe will take just about any hard landing short of a loss of control death spiral into the ground.

It literally only took me about 30 seconds to get the feel of this plane and be comfortable in flying it. My last trip to FL with my wife had some pretty good bumps and 2 IMC approaches. This plane cuts through bumps like a knife through hot butter - even better than my Beechcraft Duke which was probably my favorite airplane for bumpy IMC.

Of the 60 aircraft I have owned I have yet to find one that handles as nicely as the G3 does. There truly is nothing like it.
 
Personally, I think having local talent to talk to is what really helps the vans sell. I know I liked the glassair II, but I'm more likely to just bouild an RV (likely a 6 but..). Lots of local talent to help out if something doesn't look right.
 
Yep, Van was able to sell a simple kit that just about everyone could afford and had the skill to build along with the skill to fly. He also kept it very simple. Can't argue the success. They just are not fast enough for me and the light wing loading is too rough in the bumps for me.
 
Todd,
Would you consider selling the vm1000 parts to me as spares?
 
Gentleman,
As for the glasair website, you are correct. Not a lot of glasair stuff but there will be. The old glasair.org info is in the new sites hands and will be added. More expertise for Glasair's will be there if current owners use the site..
As for glasair aviation and the glasair. Your observations are spot on. They barely sell Glasair's these days and the company focus is on the sportsman. As for a TWTT program for the glasair? It's been asked and answered. Can't be done with the current design. It just takes too long to build. This, I know to be true. I'm in year five and getting very close now. Mine will fly inside of six months.
 

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N321SR said:
Todd,
Would you consider selling the vm1000 parts to me as spares?
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Shoot me an offer. I would prefer to sell the whole package with the sensors, probes, computer, screen, etc. It works 100% and pretty much looks new.
 
AdamZ said:
Great looking Plane Todd. It will make it easy to attend all those POA fly ins.:D
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UHH--- Adam he probably does not want to land on 6Y9's 2,600 ft of grass:no:
Maybe KSAW 15,000 ft.pavement and we'll pick him up:yes:
 
el con said:
UHH--- Adam he probably does not want to land on 6Y9's 2,600 ft of grass:no:
Maybe KSAW 15,000 ft.pavement and we'll pick him up:yes:
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No, definitely not going into 2600 ft of grass or hard surface. But I appreciate the invite:yes:
 
N801BH said:
Geez.... You cannot get that thing stopped in 2600 feet /1/2 mile?:dunno:

You are kiddin, right ???
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How many aircraft that cruise over 220 kts can do 2,600 ft? Maybe a PC-12 but that's about it. If it came to low and slow and flying out of grass strips or high and fast and using 4,000 ft runways, I'll take high and fast any day.
 
Nope, not kidding. Yes, I can land there and probably get out just fine, but it is pushing the limits. The Glasair is built for speed and not for short / soft fields. I personally will not fly it out of strips of at least 3500 ft and hard surface. You are 110 knots on final and 100 knots over the fence with touch down around 80 knots. It bleeds off speed very quickly - you don't full stall land it. It just wasn't designed for this type of airport. The tires and brakes are also tiny.
 
I guess it is kind of like asking if a Cub can cruise at 15k and go non-stop 1000 miles. Built for a different mission.
 
toddsanderson said:
I guess it is kind of like asking if a Cub can cruise at 15k and go non-stop 1000 miles. Built for a different mission.
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ha....

CJ-4 carries 9 ,cruises at.78 @ 45,000.... No prob on take off's from 2600... Landings a bit dicey ,, but duable......

Don't make me post videos...:rolleyes:
 
Yep, in my Glasair I, I require a minimum of 3,000 ft with 4,000 + ft giving me a warm fuzzy. These aren't high lift low wing loading aircraft. What people don't understand is while the aircraft might stall at say 55-60 kts, you can't get anywhere near that on approach. You'll develope an excessive descent rate if you do.

I enter the pattern shooting for 145 KIAS or less, 100 on base, 80 on final and touching down at 70. Touching down at 70 kts on a little runway and a little long and you'll find yourself overheating your brakes and possibly a brake fire. That has happened before. I go thru brake pads once a year at condition insp time.
 
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