Gill G35 Boil Over

[JGoodish]

Anyone had a Gill battery boil over when the voltage regulator wasn't at fault?

My past two G35s have lasted 7+ years each, which is why I bought another one 2 years ago. Over the past year, I've had repeated problems with boil overs after flights. I can't remember the specific series of events, but this might have begun after I found the battery discharged (with no accidental load) to the point where it wouldn't crank over the summer, so I put it on the bench and trickle-charged it. I put a VOM on it and did a ground run at various loads and RPM just to make sure that it wasn't the voltage regulator, but it held a pretty constant 14.0 volts. This was sometime over the summer. After that point, I began periodically connecting it to a BatteryMinder, and of course did not experience the discharge problem again.

However, it's now boiled over again, this time chewing threw one of the cam locks on the battery box cover, and leaking down onto the skin. Thankfully, there doesn't appear to be substantial damage to anything but the cam lock (need to find a replacement for that, hopefully without having to buy the entire cover). Needless to say, I'm about to be done with non-sealed batteries.

I have a suspicion that a bad cell may to be to blame, as evidenced by "dirty" electrolyte observed in one cell but not all cells. I just want to rule out any other cause before I put up the money for a sealed replacement.


Thanks,
JKG

 

[Vaflier]

Main cause is that it is a Gill battery. They may have been great at one time but are now garbage in my opinion. After I went through numerous batteries in 3 years in my aircraft I installed a Concorde and 6 years later it has been trouble free and still going strong. Toss and replace.

 

[Paulie]

Check your voltage regulator while you're at it but Gil is pretty much down there with ameri king

 

[dmspilot]

I bought a "sealed" Gill 13 months ago and it's been working pretty well.

 

[AKBill]

I change my voltage regulator about 3 years ago, it's a Zeftronis. I think it was a R1510L, it has worked flawless. Last year at annual, battery box was very corroded from the Gil 35 venting. I removed the battery box, repaired it and reinstalled. Installed a Concord 35-AXC, problem solved.
What type of plane do you own?

edit: the first Gill 35 lasted 10 years after that 2 additional 35's lasted 5 years each. Not saying anything about Gill, but I wanted a sealed battery period after the corroded battery box.

 

[Clark1961]

Anyone had a Gill battery boil over when the voltage regulator wasn't at fault?

My past two G35s have lasted 7+ years each, which is why I bought another one 2 years ago. Over the past year, I've had repeated problems with boil overs after flights. I can't remember the specific series of events, but this might have begun after I found the battery discharged (with no accidental load) to the point where it wouldn't crank over the summer, so I put it on the bench and trickle-charged it. I put a VOM on it and did a ground run at various loads and RPM just to make sure that it wasn't the voltage regulator, but it held a pretty constant 14.0 volts. This was sometime over the summer. After that point, I began periodically connecting it to a BatteryMinder, and of course did not experience the discharge problem again.

However, it's now boiled over again, this time chewing threw one of the cam locks on the battery box cover, and leaking down onto the skin. Thankfully, there doesn't appear to be substantial damage to anything but the cam lock (need to find a replacement for that, hopefully without having to buy the entire cover). Needless to say, I'm about to be done with non-sealed batteries.

I have a suspicion that a bad cell may to be to blame, as evidenced by "dirty" electrolyte observed in one cell but not all cells. I just want to rule out any other cause before I put up the money for a sealed replacement.


Thanks,
JKG

If that is a fiberglass battery box in a Piper then Spruce has the fasteners. The Bogert battery box is a nice though spendy replacement.

My gill boiled over a couple times at its end of life. Something about 14 volts into what has become a 10 volt battery will make it do that.

 

[Paulie]

I change my voltage regulator about 3 years ago, it's a Zeftronis. I think it was a R1510L, it has worked flawless. Last year at annual, battery box was very corroded from the Gil 35 venting. I removed the battery box, repaired it and reinstalled. Installed a Concord 35-AXC, problem solved.
What type of plane do you own?

edit: the first Gill 35 lasted 10 years after that 2 additional 35's lasted 5 years each. Not saying anything about Gill, but I wanted a sealed battery period after the corroded battery box.

RV-7 io360 and a Mooney m20c. Doing a annual on a 172, his box corroded too, Gil rg25.

 

[JGoodish]

Thanks folks. After having to pull half the interior so that I could get the rear bulkhead out to inspect and ensure that the acid spill was cleaned and treated, I am definitely going with the Concord.


JKG

 

[coloradobluesky]

Pour a mixture of baking soda and water on the acid spill. This will neutralize the acid. Rinse with water.

 

[James331]

Why people buy those junkers is beyond me, price wise a sealed concord is only a rounding difference.

When I bought my 185 the owner had a brand new battery in it, sweet!

During the prebuy/annual we go to check the battery, sure as heck it's new...and new Gill, like WTF dude!

I can't bring my self to toss it and replace it with something from the 21st century seeing the price for a 24v and also since it is still a 100% working unit.

 

[JGoodish]

Pour a mixture of baking soda and water on the acid spill. This will neutralize the acid. Rinse with water.

Yep, I used a baking soda solution. Copious amounts of it. Still a mess to clean up. It got out of hand over the previous boil overs because I thought the problem was rectified, so I didn't check it for several flights and many flight hours. When I did check it, enough acid had leaked between the base and lid of the battery box and proceeded to migrate all over the place, including some areas which were difficult to inspect or reach without removing the rear bulkhead. However, the cleanup and restoration work has all been completed.

Why people buy those junkers is beyond me, price wise a sealed concord is only a rounding difference.

As to why I chose the Gill G35 over a sealed unit, based on my history with them there was no reason not to. My previous two G35s lasted for 7 years, and probably could have gone longer but for my decision to proactively replace them due to age. I have never heard of a Concord with a better service record, but have heard of several with substantially worse ones, which is no different than any other battery. However, neither one of my previous two Gills exhibited this type of boil over problem, which is in itself a good enough risk to warrant a sealed unit in my opinion.


JKG

 

[James331]

Yep, I used a baking soda solution. Copious amounts of it. Still a mess to clean up. It got out of hand over the previous boil overs because I thought the problem was rectified, so I didn't check it for several flights and many flight hours. When I did check it, enough acid had leaked between the base and lid of the battery box and proceeded to migrate all over the place, including some areas which were difficult to inspect or reach without removing the rear bulkhead. However, the cleanup and restoration work has all been completed.



As to why I chose the Gill G35 over a sealed unit, based on my history with them there was no reason not to. My previous two G35s lasted for 7 years, and probably could have gone longer but for my decision to proactively replace them due to age. I have never heard of a Concord with a better service record, but have heard of several with substantially worse ones, which is no different than any other battery. However, neither one of my previous two Gills exhibited this type of boil over problem, which is in itself a good enough risk to warrant a sealed unit in my opinion.


JKG

Ive never heard of a sealed concord boiling over, and paint and corrosion are much more spendy than getting a extra year or so out of a 5+ year old battery, plus having to check the levels in it, it just doesn't make a ounce of sense IMO.

 

[JGoodish]

Ive never heard of a sealed concord boiling over, and paint and corrosion are much more spendy than getting a extra year or so out of a 5+ year old battery, plus having to check the levels in it, it just doesn't make a ounce of sense IMO.

I had great service life from the Gills and had no problems with acid leaks, so there was no rational justification to change from what was working. This G35 is only 2 years old, and I obviously got a bad one this time, but if I had taken it out of service after the first couple of boil-over events I could have avoided the mess altogether. Had a bought a Concord which only performed for 2 years, but didn't boil over, I would have been hard-pressed to buy another. Now, I will most certainly preferred sealed batteries in aircraft due to the reduced risk of acid contamination.

I do not follow the equation that "newer" or "more expensive" is better, because that is often not the case. I agree that acid contamination is potentially significant in an aircraft application, but I had never experienced that before now. I don't use AGM batteries in my cars, either, because I've never had a leak and generally haven't had poor performance or service life from standard batteries.

Fortunately, Piper put a plug on the battery box drain on some Cherokees, and mine has it (the vent circuit is still open, though). I caught this soon enough that the damage was almost non-existent and the leak appears to have been confined to the inside of the aircraft. It took me almost a full day to R&R everything so that I could inspect and clean to my satisfaction, so price was not my motivation to stick with Gill.


JKG

 

[jesse]

If you ran it too low it’s junk. Neither Gill or Concorde last more than 18 months in my flight school. Someone leaves a master on and I’m gonna be buying a new battery.

I quit running Concordes in the flight school planes because it was a waste of moneyz

 

[kgruber]

Baking soda is a good neutralizer, but a poor indicator...........plus it is a mess all by itself.

Stuff like this, at any auto parts store, works as an indicator......and it is easy to clean up.

 

[JGoodish]

If you ran it too low it’s junk. Neither Gill or Concorde last more than 18 months in my flight school. Someone leaves a master on and I’m gonna be buying a new battery.

I quit running Concordes in the flight school planes because it was a waste of moneyz

That's true, running them down will kill them (usually). Was never the case for me. Mixture, Master, Mags check after every flight. I know that doesn't work for renters.

The reality, though, is that everyone makes a bad battery now and again. However, both my and my hangar neighbor's last G35s didn't last more than a couple years, in airplanes which are flown regularly. Not sure whether that's coincidence or an indicator of a quality problem.


JKG

 

[ElPaso Pilot]

Long story short, but had a shop charge a Gill without removing it from the plane while I was in for other service, with the battery box open. Boiled acid all over the tail section. Claimed it wasn't their fault, and the battery was bad. Think about them every time I look back there and see all the spots.

Oh, and I only run Concords now, and never used that shop again.

 

[AKBill]

Neither Gill or Concorde last more than 18 months in my flight school. Someone leaves a master on and I’m gonna be buying a new battery.

Maybe wire the tail strobe light to stay on when the master is on. That way you can see from the office they left the master on. Just a thought..

 

[flyingron]

I have to agree, you've probably toasted the battery. There's something wrong with your voltage regulator. If you've got the orignal automotive POS that came with your aircraft, you might want to look at one of the more modern replacements.

 

[Dan Thomas]

I have to agree, you've probably toasted the battery. There's something wrong with your voltage regulator. If you've got the orignal automotive POS that came with your aircraft, you might want to look at one of the more modern replacements.

Those electromechanical regulators work well, until they don't. The contacts can weld together briefly and supercharge the battery. I've actually had more trouble with the electronic regulators,though.

Acid everywhere is frequently an indicator that someone is topping up the electrolyte to the bottom of the split ring without the battery being on charge and actively gassing. The electrolyte swells considerably with heating during charge and from the bubbles that form in it. If I top a battery thats not charging, I bring the level to about halfway between the plates and the split ring, and it wont spit acid out.

Gill mentions this in their manuals. The trouble is that mechanics dont read the manuals.

 

[iflyvfr]

To Dan's point, my Plane Power 'modern' voltage regulator failed last summer after 5 years and while on its second battery. We live in a world where it's now impossible to get quality replacement (upgrade?) parts that aren't junk from overseas. Hopefully the replacement VR and the battery lasts longer this time but have little faith it will. I keep the sealed Concord on a BatteryMinder with heat probe.

 

[weirdjim]

I have never heard of a Concord with a better service record, but have heard of several with substantially worse ones, which is no different than any other battery. However, neither one of my previous two Gills exhibited this type of boil over problem, which is in itself a good enough risk to warrant a sealed unit in my opinion.JKG

I just removed a Concorde ("e") with 14 years of service in the 182 and replaced it with like. Had I found the Harbor Freight 63299 with the rejuvinator mode in time I wouldn't have had to spend the $300 on a new battery. Say what you like about Horrible Fright; I ran it through a well instrumented lab test and that 14 year old Concorde jumped like a young puppy afterwards. Full article in the May '18 issue of Kitplanes.

The HF unit also has an "auto" mode after the battery is rejuvinated that takes the battery down to minimums,shoots a pulse of current into it to bring it to 14.2 just like the book says to do, lets it drop down to 13.6 and puts little pulses of current into it to keep it there for half an hour or so, then lets it slowly discharge to minimums for half an hour, then pops it back up to 14.4 and around the merry-go-round we go once an hour or thereabouts. $40 without a coupon, $32 with.

Proof of the pudding? I put it back in the airplane (and took the new one out for a couple of weeks) and it still fired that starter up like a new puppy after two weeks of sitting.

And I'll stand behind my findings.

Jim

 

[JGoodish]

I just removed a Concorde ("e") with 14 years of service in the 182 and replaced it with like. Had I found the Harbor Freight 63299 with the rejuvinator mode in time I wouldn't have had to spend the $300 on a new battery. Say what you like about Horrible Fright; I ran it through a well instrumented lab test and that 14 year old Concorde jumped like a young puppy afterwards. Full article in the May '18 issue of Kitplanes.

You're right, Concorde is correctly spelled with an "e." My Gills (prior to this one) were still going strong at 7 years, but I kept them on a BatteryMinder. Didn't work with this one. Hopefully I'll get much better life out of the new Concorde.


JKG