Gift for CFI?

Eagle I

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Kat
I'm scheduled to take my checkride soon. I was just wondering, is it appropriate to send my CFI a gift (assuming I pass!) and if so, what kind of gifts do people normally give? I was thinking of a gift certificate to Sporty's or some other pilot-supply store, for instance. I really want to acknowledge my CFI's efforts in helping me obtain my certificate (assuming I get it!:D) and was just looking for some guidance as to what's typical/appropriate.
 
Cash is always nice -- I've been tipped as much as $500 for a 10-day instrument course. Gift certificates for a pilot shop are good too, as is a bottle or case of the instructor's favorite whiskey or beer (respectively, although a case of whiskey would really say something special). And remembering that instructor the next time you need some training (refresher, next certificate/rating, additional training endorsement, checkout in new plane, etc) is also a good thing, but lacks immediacy.
 
Cash is always nice -- I've been tipped as much as $500 for a 10-day instrument course. Gift certificates for a pilot shop are good too, as is a bottle or case of the instructor's favorite whiskey or beer (respectively, although a case of whiskey would really say something special). And remembering that instructor the next time you need some training (refresher, next certificate/rating, additional training endorsement, checkout in new plane, etc) is also a good thing, but lacks immediacy.

Thanks for the tips, Ron!
 
I spent $10,000 including books in 6 weeks. I paid my DPE another $400. I realize my CFI only received a small portion of it. He did a fine job with his first student to take the check ride. He logged some hours. Sorry, I did not feel compelled to buy a gift. Nothing against CFI's. I would not be where I am without five great CFI's.
 
I spent $10,000 including books in 6 weeks. I paid my DPE another $400. I realize my CFI only received a small portion of it. He did a fine job with his first student to take the check ride. He logged some hours. Sorry, I did not feel compelled to buy a gift. Nothing against CFI's. I would not be where I am without five great CFI's.
Nobody said tips are required (this isn't the restaurant business where tips are essentially mandatory because the pay assumes tips will be given), but many people feel they received service above and beyond the call of the instructor's employer's requirements, and feel the instructor deserves something extra over and above the fixed rate the instructor's employer pays the instructor. When that happens, a tip is appropriate. If you don't feel you received an extraordinary level of personal attention from your instructor, then you should not be tipping him/her. But if you did, then don't be a Scrooge, and keep in mind that for a lot of us instructors, the logged hours don't mean much any more since we passed 5000 a couple of decades back.
 
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Nobody said tips are required (this isn't the restaurant business where tips are essentially mandatory because the pay assumes tips will be given), but many people feel they received service above and beyond the call of the instructor's employer's requirements, and feel the instructor deserves something extra over and above the fixed rate the instructor's employer pays the instructor. When that happens, a tip is appropriate. If you don't feel you received an extraordinary level of personal attention from your instructor, then you should not be tipping him/her. But if you did, then don't be a Scrooge.

I completely agree.
 
I never thought about tipping my CFI's. By the time I paid for my checkride and last minute flying to get things just right, it never dawned on me to consider it.
 
I got my CFI a sectional mousepad and a mug when I went through my BFR
 
Not trying to poke a finger in anyone's eye when they're trying to do the right thing, but if you're going to tip your instructor, please do as the OP did and think about how you can do something meaningful. Personally, I've probably got 200 keepsake coffee mugs cluttering up the house, and my computer has a touchpad. Even though I'm pretty well off financially (unlike many if not most instructors), a $5 bill would be a lot more meaningful to me than a mousepad or mug (at least I can turn that into a pint of Evolution Exile ESB at the brewpub), and my clients probably tipped that much or more for the last lunch they bought, no less training that could save their lives.
 
First pass the ride,I like to tip the price of a dinner for two at a nice restaurant in cash.But then I tip the line boy and mechanics that work on my plane.Tips make people feel appreciated.
 
I had one CFI get me through instrument, commercial and Multi, when we were all done I got a couple of bottles of his favorite wines. They were not cheap bottles of Ripple.
 
If you feel he went above and beyond, I'd get him a nice bottle of scotch.

In the skydive world, if you cut away to your reserve canopy it's tradition to buy the rigger who packed the reserve a bottle.
 
CFIs are overcharging to begin with (by and large, there are exceptions). Their tip is the successful pass percentage that allows them to continue teaching without having to retrain.

Unless you are paying something along the lines of $20-$30 an hour.
 
CFIs are overcharging to begin with (by and large, there are exceptions). Their tip is the successful pass percentage that allows them to continue teaching without having to retrain.

Unless you are paying something along the lines of $20-$30 an hour.

Really..... Any idea the amount of money, time and training NOT TO MENTION liability comes along with signing your number with CFI at the end??

I really think youre the first and one of the few, to say CFIs are paid TOO MUCH!!
 
CFIs are overcharging to begin with (by and large, there are exceptions). Their tip is the successful pass percentage that allows them to continue teaching without having to retrain.

Unless you are paying something along the lines of $20-$30 an hour.

Carry on...we already know you hate CFIs.
 
Really..... Any idea the amount of money, time and training NOT TO MENTION liability comes along with signing your number with CFI at the end??

I really think youre the first and one of the few, to say CFIs are paid TOO MUCH!!

Well....lets go for my high end - $30/hr. That works out to $62,400 a year assuming they work 40 hours a week. Granted, they don't work 40 hours a week, so they're actually part time employees by all normal measures. Either way, lets say they're pulling 25 hours a week. That's still almost $40,000 a year.

I'm sorry, but $40,000 a year to teach people how to fly an airplane (a task that is probably on par with driving a car, only slightly easier), seems pretty good to me. How much does a driving instructor make (or a golf instructor, or any other teacher of mundane skills that anyone could pick up with a little time and self study)? Hell, people who instruct professionals in a company usually only make slightly more than that per year, and that's their career.

Add to it that most CFIs are only building time to get a "real job" anyway, so the bigger value is actually educational time for themselves so that they can fly for an airline. For most people, this costs money in the form of college, certificates, or unpaid internships, so they're actually pocketing a fair amount more than people in other sectors would make.

You can color it however you want, but at the end of the day, a CFI makes a pretty fair income for what they do.

Now - for good CFIs (all 10 of them in the United States), I think they're probably underpaid. Luckily, they're usually the ones that make considerably more money and aren't looking for "The next great job," and are probably doing ok for themselves.
 
Well....lets go for my high end - $30/hr. That works out to $62,400 a year assuming they work 40 hours a week. Granted, they don't work 40 hours a week, so they're actually part time employees by all normal measures. Either way, lets say they're pulling 25 hours a week. That's still almost $40,000 a year.

I'm sorry, but $40,000 a year to teach people how to fly an airplane (a task that is probably on par with driving a car, only slightly easier), seems pretty good to me. How much does a driving instructor make (or a golf instructor, or any other teacher of mundane skills that anyone could pick up with a little time and self study)? Hell, people who instruct professionals in a company usually only make slightly more than that per year, and that's their career.

Add to it that most CFIs are only building time to get a "real job" anyway, so the bigger value is actually educational time for themselves so that they can fly for an airline. For most people, this costs money in the form of college, certificates, or unpaid internships, so they're actually pocketing a fair amount more than people in other sectors would make.

You can color it however you want, but at the end of the day, a CFI makes a pretty fair income for what they do.

Now - for good CFIs (all 10 of them in the United States), I think they're probably underpaid. Luckily, they're usually the ones that make considerably more money and aren't looking for "The next great job," and are probably doing ok for themselves.
There is a big difference between the amount of hours you work and the amount of hours you're able to bill. 8 hours at the airport might mean you're able to bill 4 hours if you're damn efficient at what you do. That would be a really good day. There will be entire weeks that you can't even bill 4 hours. All the time you spend marketing and looking for new students isn't being billed either. There is by far more overhead in being a good instructor then people realize.

I often spend a hour or more before a flight with someone preparing for it. Looking at my notes from the past, trying to come up with a decent scenario, etc. That work makes me a better instructor but decreases what I'm able to make.

I bill $35/hr. At that rate, if I busted my ass all year teaching, I'd be damn lucky to turn more than $35,000 a year. Billing a thousand hours would be a serious challenge and a full-time job.

If I wanted to teach full-time I'd need to bill around $150/hr for it to be worth it to me. Nobody would pay that.
 
Well....lets go for my high end - $30/hr. That works out to $62,400 a year assuming they work 40 hours a week. Granted, they don't work 40 hours a week, so they're actually part time employees by all normal measures. Either way, lets say they're pulling 25 hours a week. That's still almost $40,000 a year.

I'm sorry, but $40,000 a year to teach people how to fly an airplane (a task that is probably on par with driving a car, only slightly easier), seems pretty good to me. How much does a driving instructor make (or a golf instructor, or any other teacher of mundane skills that anyone could pick up with a little time and self study)? Hell, people who instruct professionals in a company usually only make slightly more than that per year, and that's their career.

Add to it that most CFIs are only building time to get a "real job" anyway, so the bigger value is actually educational time for themselves so that they can fly for an airline. For most people, this costs money in the form of college, certificates, or unpaid internships, so they're actually pocketing a fair amount more than people in other sectors would make.

You can color it however you want, but at the end of the day, a CFI makes a pretty fair income for what they do.

Now - for good CFIs (all 10 of them in the United States), I think they're probably underpaid. Luckily, they're usually the ones that make considerably more money and aren't looking for "The next great job," and are probably doing ok for themselves.

Nick, that's assuming they get all the money. If they work for a school, they're probably getting less than half what the student is paying.

-Rich
 
Nick, that's assuming they get all the money. If they work for a school, they're probably getting less than half what the student is paying.

-Rich

Not my problem that some CFIs can't negotiate a proper rate. Since the customer is paying for the rental as well, the CFI should be able to negotiate a rate much closer to the actual asking rate, forcing the school to charge the proper rate for the airplane.
 
My first CFI's tip was that I paid him from the minute I arrived to the airport till the minute I paid up... not per Hobbs. The time that I'm preflighting and the 10 minute preflight brief counted towards the bill, which I think is actually pretty fair, but seeing that other CFI's only charge by Hobbs, I did not feel compelled to tip extra.
 
There is a big difference between the amount of hours you work and the amount of hours you're able to bill. 8 hours at the airport might mean you're able to bill 4 hours if you're damn efficient at what you do. That would be a really good day. There will be entire weeks that you can't even bill 4 hours. All the time you spend marketing and looking for new students isn't being billed either. There is by far more overhead in being a good instructor then people realize.

I often spend a hour or more before a flight with someone preparing for it. Looking at my notes from the past, trying to come up with a decent scenario, etc. That work makes me a better instructor but decreases what I'm able to make.

I bill $35/hr. At that rate, if I busted my ass all year teaching, I'd be damn lucky to turn more than $35,000 a year. Billing a thousand hours would be a serious challenge and a full-time job.

If I wanted to teach full-time I'd need to bill around $150/hr for it to be worth it to me. Nobody would pay that.

Fair enough - but Jesse, even at 4 hours a day, you're clearing $36,400 a year. And that's still part time hours, allowing you to continue to work a full time (or a second part time) job. I don't know if you do it or not, but a lot of CFIs will tack on an additional .1 or .2 to every lesson whether there was any post or pre-flight work done also, which technically increases your hourly pay.

All that said, if you were using the hours to build toward an airline gig (which I am pretty sure you're not doing, but most of your colleagues are), you're still subsidizing your experience in a way that most of the rest of the professional world does not get to do. That's all bonus money in your pocket for when you land the ultimate job.
 
If you feel he went above and beyond, I'd get him a nice bottle of scotch.
I'm a DAC fan -- "Jack Daniel's, if you please." :wink2:

In the skydive world, if you cut away to your reserve canopy it's tradition to buy the rigger who packed the reserve a bottle.
Same in the Navy if the LSO saves you from landing gear-up.
 
Fair enough - but Jesse, even at 4 hours a day, you're clearing $36,400 a year. And that's still part time hours, allowing you to continue to work a full time (or a second part time) job. I don't know if you do it or not, but a lot of CFIs will tack on an additional .1 or .2 to every lesson whether there was any post or pre-flight work done also, which technically increases your hourly pay.

All that said, if you were using the hours to build toward an airline gig (which I am pretty sure you're not doing, but most of your colleagues are), you're still subsidizing your experience in a way that most of the rest of the professional world does not get to do. That's all bonus money in your pocket for when you land the ultimate job.
If I was billing 4 hours per day instructing day after day that would be a full time job. I'd be spending 8 hours a day at the airport to manage that, and hours at home trying to market, and hours talking to potential students on the phone in between.
 
I gave my A&P/IA/CFII/Hangar owner a gift certificate for steak.

Another set of guys that I give bourbon to is the trash guys every Christmas, I think I could put nuclear rods in there and they'd take it away :)
 
If I was billing 4 hours per day instructing day after day that would be a full time job. I'd be spending 8 hours a day at the airport to manage that, and hours at home trying to market, and hours talking to potential students on the phone in between.

For every hour flown you spend an hour prepping/marketing?
 
The other debating aside, I think it's hilarious that someone put obtaining your private certificate and getting your auto driver's license in the same category. They're not even remotely close IMO.

That said, I handed my instructor a pair of new Ray-Bans after my first Solo. Don't know what, if anything, I'll give to him after I pass the checkride.
 
The other debating aside, I think it's hilarious that someone put obtaining your private certificate and getting your auto driver's license in the same category. They're not even remotely close IMO.

You're right. Driving a car is harder and less forgiving.
 
My last CFI that I actually paid for was such a huge improvement over the previous 2 A-hole CFIs that I had couldn't help but give him a large tip. Even though the dual instruction rate is about $100/hour, he's on salary, primarily flying long airline days and it came as a very pleasant surprise for him. And by improvement I mean he just flew very well and taught me some new and useful things not usually seen.

Prior to that a bottle of fine scotch after the IFR checkride being passed, otherwise it was a situation where they were building hours for themselves and so was I so, didn't feel any desire to tip.
 
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For every hour flown you spend an hour prepping/marketing?

Someone calls me and wants to do a flight review. I probably spend 10 minutes talking to them on the phone as we try to align schedules, I try to learn a little about them, figure out what sort of flying they do, etc.

Before the flight I'm looking at the weather. I'm looking at my past records to determine what was done the last time I've flown with this person. Perhaps I'm not that familiar with their type airplane (this happens all the time) now I'm looking for owners manuals on the internet and type forums trying to learn at least something about it so I can be somewhat effective in executing the review. At the minimum this is going to be 15 minutes at the max this might take hours.

Perhaps the flight gets scheduled for 8am. I get to the airport at 7:45am and wait for them to show up. Sometimes they'll be there at 8. Other times it might be 8:15 or 8:30. They're probably flying in, **** happens, people end up late. Maybe today is a good day and they are there precisely at 8am and by 8:10 am we've started the ground. The ground will take about 1.2 hours on average and after that they're going to want to take a potty break and preflight. We'll be lucky if we're in the air by 10am. Another 1.5 in the air and we're on the ground by 11:30. They're going to want another potty break and by 11:45 or so I'm signing their logbook and we're debriefing. By noon they're gone and I now need to write this in my records as per the fars and write my own notes incase I ever hear from a lawyer or feds if they prang a plane. That'll take another 15 minutes.

Time is now 12:15 and after all that I've got about 4.5 hours at best, perhaps 5 or more, loaded into this one single flight review. Most people are not going to pay me 5*35 even though that's what the actual time was. Instead, they're going to at most, want to pay for the 1.5 hours of flying and the 1.2 hours of ground plus perhaps 15 minutes. That's about 2.9 hours billable at best. 2.9*35 is $101.50 in my pocket.

It's unlikely I've managed to stack multiple flight reviews in one day. I wish I could. Those are *the most* profitable thing. Instead, I've probably managed to book another two flights. I probably set the next one at 1pm so now I'm scrambling to go eat, and get ready for the next flight. I get back to the airport at 12:45 and look through my notes regarding the next student. They show up at 1pm and we're doing a lesson on ground reference maneuvers. That will take about 15 minutes, perhaps more, of ground discussion. Now the airplane needs to be preflighted. Since I've already taught the student how to preflight and since I firmly believe people need to teach themselves to a degree (without me hovering over them) I wait inside the FBO while they spend the next 25 minutes preflighting. Now perhaps the student decides they need gas and that takes another 25 minutes to get since the FBO is jacking around. I'm not about to question a new pilot's developing judgement when they made a fuel decision so I wait. This part could burn anywhere from .3 to 1.0 hours said and done and I don't bill for it. Instead I spend that time on the phone trying to sort through the new contacts I have from other people wanting to learn to fly.

Finally by 2pm or so we're in the air, we fly for a bit, and we land at 3:15 pm. They take a bathroom break, we debrief, and I'm done with them by 3:30. So how much can I bill for that? Perhaps .25 of ground, another .15 for debriefing, and 1.2 in the airplane. A grand total of 1.6 hours, or $56.

My next student is at 5:00 pm so now I just need to sit around and burn 1.5 hours. They're a cross country student and want to get dinner, who am I to turn down their desire to make their training a little more fun. They show up at 5:15 pm (traffic slowed them a bit) and we sit down and start talking about the flight. They show me their planning and ask me questions and suddenly it's 6 pm. Time to go preflight and watch them try to figure out the fuel again. This will burn 30 minutes. Could I have the plane topped off before they got there? Sure I could. But how the hell are they going to learn if I don't make them do things for themselves.

By 6:30 pm we're airborne and heading to an airport an airport 75 miles way. We get there in 0.8 hobbs and now they want to run into town to get dinner. By the time they get a courtesy car and we get to the restaurant it's 8 pm. We order dinner and I end up paying for my own food (pretty common, actually) and we head back to the airport. At 9:30 pm we're back at the airport and now they need to fumble around in the dark with their new fancy headlamp they bought from Sportys and do another preflight. It takes 30 minutes (most new people do) and we get in the airplane and head back to Lincoln. It takes us about 1.0 hours to get back and we land at 11pm. Now they need to go to the bathroom again, I need to sign their logbooks, we need to debrief, and I'll be lucky if I'm out the door by 11:30 pm.

Wow that took a lot of my time. How much can I actually bill? In most businesses you'd bill from hand-shake to hand-shake, in this case, 6.25 hours, or $218. Guess how many people actually think that's how this should work? After all, they took me to dinner, and I got free hours! Most likely I'm going to end up billing 1.8 in flying and .7 or so in ground, or $87.

So I just spent 15 or so hours at the airport and managed to bill about $244 (7 ish hours billable). I added 4 hours to my logbook.

That right there, is a day worth being proud of, as you're more typically going to spend more time waiting around doing nothing between flights and you'll probably end up with less profitable flights (more short 0.8 to 1.0 hour flights spaced oddly apart).

You'll have weeks where you can't even fly because of weather. But you can't get another job because you can only do it for a week. And if you weren't a full time flight instructor you wouldn't be able to meet the odd schedule demands of students.

It's a hard business. Myself, I bill about $5,000 per year, and $1,500 of that goes right out the door to insurance.
 
You're right. Driving a car is harder and less forgiving.

You're wrong, in my opinion.

Millions of people who couldn't pilot a simple 150 have driver's licenses.

I'm not saying it takes a brilliant individual to obtain a private certificate(hell I'm doing pretty well, what's that say!)... but it's much more involved and difficult than driving a car. More forgiving is subjective. The wrong mistake can kill you in the airplane just as easily as it would in a car.
 
I never expected anything, never asked for anything and don't remember ever getting anything.
 
For every hour flown you spend an hour prepping/marketing?

Easily....factor in a 20 min. drive to and from the airport, sometimes to accommodate one lesson for one student. Then weather delays, or mechanical issues that crop up out of nowhere and scrub a flight, none of which the client gets billed for by the CFI.

As for the .1 or .2, was the CFI present at all with you in the airplane before you cranked up? I watch my students take several minutes to finish their pre-start checklist, get their headset situated, etc. before the engine even starts. Afterwards, there are the inevitable question and we shut down, pack things up and get the airplane situated. Then we fill out the logbook and sign our name (and assume the liability.)

Should all that time be free?

Boy am I thankful I haven't had to deal with cheapskate students!
 
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As a student and also a business owner, it's very easy for me to see all the time my instructor sucks up that he can't bill to me. If I'm on the phone getting a briefing, filling out a navlog, or outside pre-flighting the airplane, he can't bill me for that time. Usually a 2-hour block for me ends up in getting billed 1.2 for the airplane and instructor and then a few tenths of ground, depending upon how much time we might have spent in the classroom. And a lot of that money goes to the flight school.
 
I bought my CFI a shotgun (come on.. it's Texas). That was nearly 10 years ago.. damn, I'm getting old!

We remain friends to this day. Grab happy hour 3 days a week or more...
 
Fair enough - but Jesse, even at 4 hours a day, you're clearing $36,400 a year. And that's still part time hours, allowing you to continue to work a full time (or a second part time) job. I don't know if you do it or not, but a lot of CFIs will tack on an additional .1 or .2 to every lesson whether there was any post or pre-flight work done also, which technically increases your hourly pay.

All that said, if you were using the hours to build toward an airline gig (which I am pretty sure you're not doing, but most of your colleagues are), you're still subsidizing your experience in a way that most of the rest of the professional world does not get to do. That's all bonus money in your pocket for when you land the ultimate job.

First off if you think learning to fly is the same as learning to drive a car, you're
A) not a pilot
B ) a REALLY horrible pilot
C) a idiot, or a mix of a few

I could draw out all the ways you're misinformed about aviation and this industry, I really rather not waist my time on someone who lacks the amount of common sense which you appear to be lacking.


On a foot note, I bill myself out at $50hr (cash only) and have NEVER, N E V E R had a single soul say I was overcharging.


I work 2 flying jobs, I instruct part time and fly a turboprop full time, not a airline type.

I'm a ATP, gold seal CFI and have been rumored to be a good stick and rudder too. I charge $50hr because I'm worth every damn cent, my students tend to agree, how much I make a year is irrelevant, the service I provide to the amount I charge is what matters and my customers aint complaining.
 
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As a student and also a business owner, it's very easy for me to see all the time my instructor sucks up that he can't bill to me. If I'm on the phone getting a briefing, filling out a navlog, or outside pre-flighting the airplane, he can't bill me for that time.
Actually, he can, but he chooses not to. Not all instructors bill only for logged time.
 
Well....lets go for my high end - $30/hr. That works out to $62,400 a year assuming they work 40 hours a week. Granted, they don't work 40 hours a week, so they're actually part time employees by all normal measures. Either way, lets say they're pulling 25 hours a week. That's still almost $40,000 a year.

not to derail the thread or get too personal, but what are CFIs charging on average? I paid 45/hr for my instrument training. I can't remember but I paid at least 35 for PPL 4 years ago.
 
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