Getting Yelled at by MX, What Would You Do?

U

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Over the past few months, MX has been getting more ****ed off at the pilots at our school. We keep get yelled at for writing things up that they find annoying.

For example: One of the CFIs wrote up that the battery was getting weak and need to be looked at during the upcoming 100hr. The MX guy comes in and starts screaming at us that we can't write this "crap" up in the real world. Another CFI got yelled at in front of everyone for writing up that the crab heat was missing its placard. They said its not required via the flight manual and that we should know where the carb heat lever is.

Last week a CFI wrote up that the engine was making a knocking noise and had a strong hot metal smell on takeoff. The same MX comes and does his same MO with that CFI in front of everyone. Saying that he ran it up and heard nothing. That if it's not dumping oil or fuel then in the real world DEAL with it.

It's gotten to the point were CFIs that write ANYTHING up get badgered by their fellow CFIs for being annoying. Basically the aircraft are getting flown with known things wrong.

The Chief wants everything written up. However, with MX and the other CFI nothing gets report unless it MIGHT kill someone.
 
Sounds like a bad attitude is prevalent there and that usually starts at the top. Express your concern and if you don't like the response be prepared to walk. Not writing up squawks is a safety issue. In the real world, I don't defer any maintenance on my plane.
 
Get video of the Mx guy going off on one of his tirades and send it to the local FSDO...

...did I really just say that?
 
Yesterday, one of the pilots came back with a write up that the cabin heat was stuck on full. The MX guy balled the squawk up and said open a window.

The other MX guy will actually hear you out and tell you if it needs to be written up or just a quick fix right then. He will even show you some tricks to solve the common issues that come up seasonally. The other guy says use your freaking head idiot.

I wrote up that the trim on one of the planes was adjusting itself in flight. The MX guy wrote it up as "ground ops check good". Umm, I said "IN FLIGHT". It took in flight pictures and a video for him to even look at it. Come to find out the trim tab was bent.

On the other side. CFI won't write thing up because they don't want the planes grounded. I've been stopped on the ramp by other CFIs and told not to write up "such and such", because their student has a checkride coming up.
 
Without pilots breaking stuff there would be no need for MX ! I say go forth and write stuff up - it only helps to create more MX jobs.
 
Unregistered said:
On the other side. CFI won't write thing up because they don't want the planes grounded. I've been stopped on the ramp by other CFIs and told not to write up "such and such", because their student has a checkride coming up.
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So CFIs won't writeup squawks for grounding items... that they then turn a student pilot and DPE loose in?:rolleyes:
 
We have a saying where I work. When someone gets out of line like this, they are told, "Know your role and shut your hole."
 
timwinters said:
Get video of the Mx guy going off on one of his tirades and send it to the local FSDO...



...did I really just say that?
Click to expand...

The FSDO could actually be part of the problem....

Not defending the behavior of this maintenance outfit (sounds like they are being jerks), but it is possible that the behavior is actually being driven by the FSDO.

When I was with Plus One in San Diego a few years ago, we had a similar issue (albeit without the yelling). The San Diego FSDO's interpretation of squawk write ups was that any write-up, however trivial or cosmetic was cause for the aircraft to be considered 'grounded' until the squawk has been examined and adjudicated by maintenance. So while most of us pilots thought we were being helpful writing squawks on items that were about to be a problem, club management and owners were being threatened with FAA action by the FSDO if we kept flying planes with open squawks.
 
MKx is a cog in the wheel. When they feel superior,they have to realize ,if the plane doesn't fly they have nothing to fix. Find another school ,that understands the system.
 
I fly in the real world and let me tell you that if we are uncomfortable with anything in our king airs and citations, our MX chief knows about it! Oftentimes he will stop what he's doing to take a look at whatever is causing a concern. Passengers will not put up with anything abnormal they hear, see, or smell. It's one thing to have something small like a broke map light but if there is something critical like engine functions or instruments, it's getting fixed. Instructors should never be afraid to talk to MX and no one has the right to yell at anyone especially in front of students and general public. It creates fear and it's unprofessional. Discretion is still good on the instructors side to know when things need to be looked at now, what can be deferred, and even what they can fix themselves. I'm not there myself but if I was their instructor I would just work with the MX guy who is helpful. I would try to pull the other guy to the side and talk to him and if that doesn't help, go to his superior. Unfortunately some are just jerks. I've met a few but I also know some good ones.

Just remember an old saying; if the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If the mechanic screws up, the pilot still dies.
 
People who behave like that often have larger problems - like alcoholism.
 
Sounds like the OP's airplanes aren't well-maintained if there's a need for endless squawks.

Dan
 
How do people like this keep their jobs, have any friends, or have any people who put up with them in general?
 
I think this is a phony post in the first place....unregistered, unlikely scenario, everyone gets excited...?
 
Need more info. Please answer the following questions:

1. I am:

a. An adult
b. A minor(under 18)
c. A gurly-man with no nads

2. My salary is paid by:

a. The chief of flight ops
b. The maint chief
c. I work for free and the occasional bag of Cheez-its

3. I have ratings:

a. ASEL/AMEL-CFI/CFII
b. Sport Pilot rating(day, vfr, under 10k, etc)
c. Student pilot.

############################################
If you answered "a" to these questions, I suggest you stand up and fix this. If you answered anything other than "a" to these questions, I can't help you.
 
The MX guy needs an attitude check and maybe his superior needs to be involved. Bad attitudes like that and the brushing of squawks under the rug will get someone hurt some day. Or worse.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Just hearing one side of a story. It would be interesting to hear the whole story.
 
flyingriki said:
I think this is a phony post in the first place....unregistered, unlikely scenario, everyone gets excited...?
Click to expand...

It's not phony. I wanted to post unregistered because the place I work monitors what I post on here. I wanted to get y'all's opinions without people knowing who I actually work for

I have stood up to him. He still acts like he does. My boss, the chief, knows full well about the issues. He has been wanting to call and full staff meeting and have a come to Jesus talk. However, this spring has been extemely busy for him.

Yea, I may squawk anything that is out of place. I was taught that when something is broke say something or fix it yourself. Well I don't have the option to fix it myself.
 
flyingriki said:
I think this is a phony post in the first place....unregistered, unlikely scenario, everyone gets excited...?
Click to expand...

Unlikely scenario?? I've seen this type of thing quite a few times myself too.
 
Unregistered said:
It's not phony. I wanted to post unregistered because the place I work monitors what I post on here. I wanted to get y'all's opinions without people knowing who I actually work for

I have stood up to him. He still acts like he does. My boss, the chief, knows full well about the issues. He has been wanting to call and full staff meeting and have a come to Jesus talk. However, this spring has been extemely busy for him.

Yea, I may squawk anything that is out of place. I was taught that when something is broke say something or fix it yourself. Well I don't have the option to fix it myself.
Click to expand...

If they're monitoring this forum you are already busted.
 
Unregistered said:
My boss, the chief, knows full well about the issues. He has been wanting to call and full staff meeting and have a come to Jesus talk. However, this spring has been extemely busy for him.
Click to expand...

Your boss is a wimp, or at least a poor leader. If he knows about a problem like this, yet lets it fester because he is "too busy", it is not because he is too busy.
It's because he wants to avoid conflict.

Bottom line- If the boss knows about these problems, it is no longer your problem.
Either work within the system the boss has set up, or seek employment elsewhere.
 
KA550 said:
Just hearing one side of a story. It would be interesting to hear the whole story.
Click to expand...

In this case, there is no legitimate other side. Safety reporters must NEVER be encouraged to self-censor. Full stop.

Even if MX is very kindly requesting fewer squawks, that's unsafe. Even if it's a casual hint or two.
 
If the Chief says to write it up, write it up but use good judgement.

MX can relax.
 
I worked a flight school for a few years, and some of the squawks were downright ridiculous. i.e. broken plastic. Meaningful ones got taken care of, but nobody got yelled at. Junk squawks simply went in the round file.
 
My advice: Write up anything you believe to be airworthiness or safety related and when the MX guy goes off, turn and walk away after letting him know you're giving a copy of your squawk to the operator of the school. Use your power of persuasion to convince some of the other CFIs to follow your lead. The school owner/operator is the one most likely to be adversely affected should the poor maintenance cause students to leave or worse yet a safety issue causes an accident. And if that person isn't responsive you'll either have to accept that this is your future if you stay there.
 
What happens when a student off on his first solo cross country sees something that doesn't seem right but because of the attitude of MX doesn't say anything, goes anyway, and gets into trouble?

A flight school especially is a place to encourage people to ask stupid questions and to get straightforward answers without having to worry about some hothead yelling at them for it.
 
Welcome to a very frightening reality in commercial aviation. I work overseas as a contract pilot supporting DoD in theater. We are a sub-contractor under a large prime contractor. One of our newest pilots, who is experienced in our airframe, was verbally threatened by the program manager that he could be fired after squaking an airplane. This particular pilot wrote up an airplane that had a failing FCU unit. All of us had flown this bird knowing that the engine was bad but this pilot was the only one to push the issue and call it unairworthy. We were told to keep flying and it would get fixed on the next emma. The FCU was 700% out of tolerance when replaced. This is only one glaring example of what frequently happens. Our prime contractor only cares about tach time, ie billable hours. Pilots working in 135 and 91 operations have always been put between safety and money. Management goes from the very strongest to the downright evil. The problem we face is that if you fall on your sword to do the prudent and correct thing, you will be replaced by the thousands of pilots that will sell their soul inorder to get into the cockpit. I was told very early on "to not get in the way of the moneytrain." If you are working for a company that operates outside of what you feel comfortable, leaving is often your only choice. If management refuses to listen to the pilots, move on. Good flying jobs are still out there, and you don't want to be associated with a company that has poor ethics or has an accident.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The FSDO could actually be part of the problem....

Not defending the behavior of this maintenance outfit (sounds like they are being jerks), but it is possible that the behavior is actually being driven by the FSDO.

When I was with Plus One in San Diego a few years ago, we had a similar issue (albeit without the yelling). The San Diego FSDO's interpretation of squawk write ups was that any write-up, however trivial or cosmetic was cause for the aircraft to be considered 'grounded' until the squawk has been examined and adjudicated by maintenance. So while most of us pilots thought we were being helpful writing squawks on items that were about to be a problem, club management and owners were being threatened with FAA action by the FSDO if we kept flying planes with open squawks.
Click to expand...

this is probably the issue. Our school is trying to become 141 certified and one of the issues brought up is that any written squawk will ground the aircraft until maintenance says otherwise. even the trivial stuff maintenance has to log that its ok to fly or they have to fix the problem. so we are just telling the squawks directly to maintenance so there is no written record unless it is known to be an unsafe unairworthy squawk.
 
I'd have fun with the guy, since he isn't your boss. Start writing cryptic squawks and when he asks what it means, ridicule him in front of his peers.

Take him aside and tell him to cut the ****. Most importantly, if he did it in front of customers, be strong and yell right back at him.
 
gismo said:
My advice: Write up anything you believe to be airworthiness or safety related and when the MX guy goes off, turn and walk away after letting him know you're giving a copy of your squawk to the operator of the school. Use your power of persuasion to convince some of the other CFIs to follow your lead. The school owner/operator is the one most likely to be adversely affected should the poor maintenance cause students to leave or worse yet a safety issue causes an accident. And if that person isn't responsive you'll either have to accept that this is your future if you stay there.
Click to expand...


What makes you think the operator isn't the problem here? Who do you think pays the maintenance bills?
 
If you are a yankee, take a hint from ladies in the deep south

When someone is screaming obscenities at you, just smile as sweetly as you can and say "well bless your heart" then leave.

I've applied that method here in Oz where they are completely unfamiliar with dixie customs and it is hilarious to see the reactions.
 
Unregistered said:
Over the past few months, MX has been getting more ****ed off at the pilots at our school. We keep get yelled at for writing things up that they find annoying.

For example: One of the CFIs wrote up that the battery was getting weak and need to be looked at during the upcoming 100hr. The MX guy comes in and starts screaming at us that we can't write this "crap" up in the real world. Another CFI got yelled at in front of everyone for writing up that the crab heat was missing its placard. They said its not required via the flight manual and that we should know where the carb heat lever is.

Last week a CFI wrote up that the engine was making a knocking noise and had a strong hot metal smell on takeoff. The same MX comes and does his same MO with that CFI in front of everyone. Saying that he ran it up and heard nothing. That if it's not dumping oil or fuel then in the real world DEAL with it.

It's gotten to the point were CFIs that write ANYTHING up get badgered by their fellow CFIs for being annoying. Basically the aircraft are getting flown with known things wrong.

The Chief wants everything written up. However, with MX and the other CFI nothing gets report unless it MIGHT kill someone.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the CFIs are most likely all young and easily intimidated by the maintenance chumps! Sounds like someone with some balls (can I say that :D?) needs to start yelling back!
 
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