Gay Pilots?

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I'm from Massachusetts - fly on in and get married... :) On the other hand, I just sold my high wing and bought a low wing. I might have lost my mind!!
 
Are you kidding? Would that I were gay, then I wouldn't have all of these cross-gender communication problems I always seem to run into.

But... we are who we are. So it goes.
 
DeeG said:
Well, anyone who likes LOW WINGS is just a little off........
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well, people always tell me that about me, but i guess you've just confirmed it!:p

and some of my favorite people are "gay". Some of them are even happy!
 
Unregistered said:
How would most of you react, or think you would react, if one of the semi-regular posters on here and AOPA were to show up at a gathering and you suddenly discovered they were gay?
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I don't think I'd care, really. I'm in the music business and many of my friends and colleagues are gay.
 
I fly both highwings and lowwings, so I guess that means I go both ways! LOL hahahaha, I kill myself!

Brent
 
Unregistered said:
How would most of you react, or think you would react, if one of the semi-regular posters on here and AOPA were to show up at a gathering and you suddenly discovered they were gay?
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It wouldn't matter one bit to me. I don't see where someone's sexual
orientation has anything to do with having them as friends, or enjoying
common interests. I'm straight and not gonna change .. would you
hold it against me? It's just a non issue in my book.

I'm sorry if you had people giving you trouble at AOPA over it .. but there
are people like that around.

If you're in Lincoln, give me a heads up and we'll go do dinner and
yak about flying.
 
Unregistered said:
Ok..I know this probably isn't the right forum to ask this question. But since it's the only one except Medical Topics.. (which I don't think fits), that lets you post anonymously, I don't know where else to ask (maybe someone could move the discussion to Hangar talk after I post it). I'll apologize to the management in advance if this topic is off limits here. I know this topic can get explosive sometimes.

I've chatted/posted with some of you guys off and on for years now, but none of you know that I'm gay (at least none that I know of). That having been said, I'd love to come to some of your fly-ins and gatherings, but I'm afraid that if I show up with my partner, it could get ugly.. and I don't want that to happen. Meeting me in person, most of you wouldn't have a clue, but I refuse to go to these things without my partner, who is almost as crazy about flying as I am. I think most of you would enjoy both of our company once you got to know us.

I know some of you have strong religious feelings about the whole gay issue (and I respect that), and I'm not bringing this up to get that "is it right or wrong" discussion going. My question is:

How would most of you react, or think you would react, if one of the semi-regular posters on here and AOPA were to show up at a gathering and you suddenly discovered they were gay? Would you prefer they not show up, treat them the same as you would any other pilot without regard to their personal lives, ignore them, etc, etc. How do you think most of your fellow board members will react? How do you think the revelation would effect them later on the board?

I ask this because you never know what a group's reaction is going to be. A long time ago on the "other" board, one of the other posters got a clue, and I started getting hate email. I really don't want to go through with that again. Thankfully I haven't seen that person on either board for a long time. I don't really care what some other pilot's personal feelings are about my orientation. I care about what they think of my flying skills and my love of everything winged. There are gay flyer's groups out there, and I'm a member of some, but they are not as diverse, active, and have as many members as the "mainstream" flying groups/sites do.

I really like reading and chatting with you guys, but if showing up with my partner is going to put that in jeopardy, then I'll have do some serious thinking about whether or not to stay in the closet here, or not partake in the gatherings.

I look forward to your thoughts and comments (maybe :) ).
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Usually not a problem.
But like most, I don't care for public affection (unless it's hot lesbian...)
:Drama:
 
So sorry you felt compelled to ask your question. Were you to arrive at my fly-in(not that I'm having one) I'd be much more interested in how smoothly your roamin' hands and dancin' feet put that airplane on the runway; and how many stops and where they were during your in-flight. As another theatre and entertainment participant I've worked with many gay/lesbian associated performers. We're there to perform with and for the talents of others, not to harbor intolerance. Post away, and fly-in.

HR
 
NickDBrennan said:
Heh - Freudian slip? How far down the line are you gonna make out?

Just giving a hard time there...
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Lol. No, just lousy proof reading. It should have read "making OUR way down the BBQ line."

I really appreciate everyone's responses. It makes me feel much better. Looking forward to the first gathering my schedule allows!
 
High Wing vs Low Wing??

It's whatever wing I can afford to fly that week. I wing both ways. But I'm not bi-wing. At least I never tried bi-wing. Curious of course.
 
If you don't have a problem with me being a Christian then I don't have a problem with you being Gay :D

Now that the ice is broken . . . . I apologize for any Christian that singles out ANYONE and bashes them for what they do or how they live. The same Bible that teaches the Christian that homosexuality is wrong also teaches that Jesus hung out with the outcast, the sinners, and loved them anyway. "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". Christians seem to forget that "we" were yet sinners. As a Christian I don't have to accept your lifestyle but I am commanded to accept you as a person and as being created by the very hands of God. If I met you at a fly-in I wouldn't even think of offending you. What kind of love does that show? Would you be willing to listen to the Gospel from me or anyone else after I personally discriminated against you :no: . And by the way, I wouldn't be "in your face" with the Christian message either. You would know something is different about me and I would simple wait for you to ask :) .


Fly Safe,
Waldo
N7064W
 
Waldo, thanks for the thoughtful words - you said it well!
 
There is always a chance you'll come across a hateful person like the one who sent you e-mails. No one can guarantee that won't happen but I think you see from these responses that the overwhelming majority of people are fine with it. I agree with the general sentiment that overt displays of heavy breathing are not acceptable in that setting from gay or straight but obviously you and your partner aren't interested in treating a fly-in as if it were a bar scene, and the "honey" slip is certainly something with which no rational, mannerly person would take issue.

Contrary to what some people think, conservatives and religious people are no more prejudiced or unmannerly than liberals and "enlightened" individuals. You and your partner go about public in general don't you? Do you think you need to ask this question specifically of pilots because a lot of pilots tend to be conservative, and you're assuming therefore you'd be subject to more discrimination?

I'm pretty conservative and I am very straight and I believe in God and read the Bible but I adore gay people and not only would welcome you and your partner, but would probably attempt to make friends with you. I've always had gay friends - from childhood to today. As it happens I may show up at the AOPA fly-in this June. Maybe I'll look for you. You say I wouldn't have a clue but I've got real good gay-dar. :)

I will make this post as an unregistered guest and am only making this one post to respond and reassure you. I don't think I will be returning to further check out this site, as I have read a real clear message that I will be a hypocrit if I join this board, as well as other undertones of not wanting a lot of "conservative" posts here. Despite the welcoming "clean slate" rhetoric, those other negative messages remain undeleted and so I get that I'm not wanted.

Unfortunately for you, as a gay person, perhaps similar double-faced behavior will be more of a problem than overt persecution. But don't let it stop you from going to fly-ins. I think most folks who responded to you are being genuine. It's the ones who don't respond who will be a problem, but again, I don't think you have any higher risk of that happening at a fly-in than anywhere else you go, and possibly less. So don't worry, and go to the fly-ins and bring your partner. Take care.

Name not needed - I am the only person who writes like I do. You know who I am. :)
 
Unregistered said:
I don't think I will be returning to further check out this site, as I have read a real clear message that I will be a hypocrite if I join this board,
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I know what thread you are referring to, and if you've read it then you should have read the responses as well, and should know very well that we've already apologized for the remark that was made.

as well as other undertones of not wanting a lot of "conservative" posts here.
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Any such undertones of that nature are the opinions of some of the members and do not reflect upon the policies or opinions of the management.

Despite the welcoming "clean slate" rhetoric, those other negative messages remain un-deleted and so I get that I'm not wanted.
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Yes, the messages remain un-deleted. In the case of the "hypocrite" message, it remains un-deleted because when someone on our management team makes a goof, we own up to it, and we don't hide the trail. If we DID delete those messages then we'd get accused of being hypocrites ourselves.

As for the "undertone" messages, those remain because while we may not agree with the opinions of the poster, we stand by our policy of not moderating based on opinions, but on civility rules. We will only delete posts or threads which are in clear violation of our rules of conduct, not those which state opinions with which we may not agree.

Now - that said - Unregistered #1 used the Lessons Learned forum to ask a question for which that person had good reason to conceal his or her identity.

Your post, however, is another matter. While you have used it to reply to the pertinent context of the thread, you have also used it as a means to anonymously make accusations against this forum. The anonymity function is not intended as a shield to allow people to make accusations and implications against others on this forum, the management included, and continued use of anonymity for that purpose will not be tolerated.

If you wish to comment on the operation of this site, whether positively or negatively, please have the courtesy to do so under a registered account. We'll put up with a hell of a lot of open criticism about how we run things here, but only from people who do so from a valid Pilots of America account.

Now, lets please allow the thread to return to the topic.
 
Ditto to most of what' been said so far. I've had gay friends, co-workers, and hired a gay for an executive director of an organization I'm on the board of, and frankly their sexual orientation is simply not my concern. I've never been able to comprehend how some seemingly "normal" people can have (and openly express) such concern and/or anger over this issue.
 
Why put any qualifier in front of "pilot"?
 
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1. Dont care if ur gay...what ever trips your trigger.
2. If ya show up holding hands and smoochin' in the barbecue line ur gonna gross me out.
3. I aint gonna laugh and call ya names but I aint gonna be happy about having to have that discussion with my kids who also witness it. I'm there to have barbecue and socialize with other pilots, not have sexual orientation discussions with my children.
4. I'd rather not see it.
5. I support your right to be there and would probably enjoy your company but how comfortable I am with it will entirely depend on your behavior.
6. It aint fair, it aint politically correct, but thats the way it is.
 
Agreed with everyone. Just because I dont agree with it, doesnt mean I cant be a fellow pilot and talk aviation. I dont agree with a lot of things people do, but I still go out with them and they are still my friends. If I was only friends with people exactly like me, how boring of a life that would be! :)

And about the high vs. low wing stuff. Flown both. Trained in low wing, acro in high wing, tours in high wing. :D
 
lancefisher said:
I've never been able to comprehend how some seemingly "normal" people can have (and openly express) such concern and/or anger over this issue.
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Possibly they feel threatened .. or aren't secure in who they
are personally?
 
Greebo said:
I know what thread you are referring to, and if you've read it then you should have read the responses as well, and should know very well that we've already apologized for the remark that was made.


Any such undertones of that nature are the opinions of some of the members and do not reflect upon the policies or opinions of the management.


Yes, the messages remain un-deleted. In the case of the "hypocrite" message, it remains un-deleted because when someone on our management team makes a goof, we own up to it, and we don't hide the trail. If we DID delete those messages then we'd get accused of being hypocrites ourselves.

As for the "undertone" messages, those remain because while we may not agree with the opinions of the poster, we stand by our policy of not moderating based on opinions, but on civility rules. We will only delete posts or threads which are in clear violation of our rules of conduct, not those which state opinions with which we may not agree.

Now - that said - Unregistered #1 used the Lessons Learned forum to ask a question for which that person had good reason to conceal his or her identity.

Your post, however, is another matter. While you have used it to reply to the pertinent context of the thread, you have also used it as a means to anonymously make accusations against this forum. The anonymity function is not intended as a shield to allow people to make accusations and implications against others on this forum, the management included, and continued use of anonymity for that purpose will not be tolerated.

If you wish to comment on the operation of this site, whether positively or negatively, please have the courtesy to do so under a registered account. We'll put up with a hell of a lot of open criticism about how we run things here, but only from people who do so from a valid Pilots of America account.

Now, lets please allow the thread to return to the topic.
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Here hear. Well said.
 
Joe Williams said:
Or perhaps they feel it is morally wrong behavior.
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Perhaps they do - but so long as the gay lifestyle has no effect upon the straight person who feels it is wrong, what justification does the straight person have for being angry or even concerned about it?
 
Greebo said:
Perhaps they do - but so long as the gay lifestyle has no effect upon the straight person who feels it is wrong, what justification does the straight person have for being angry or even concerned about it?
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I think you will find very few instances where people are angry or concerned when they are unaffected. When people get angry or concerned is when people try to force an immoral lifestyle on society as "normal," for example when their kids go to school and are forced to sit in classes where they are told the lifestyle is normal, and that regarding it as the sin the Bible says it is is "hatred" and "wrong." Then people begin to get angry and concerned. There is a big difference between behaving with proper social decorum and loving your fellow man, and having other people's immorality forced onto you and your kids.
 
Greebo said:
Perhaps they do - but so long as the gay lifestyle has no effect upon the straight person who feels it is wrong, what justification does the straight person have for being angry or even concerned about it?[/QUOTE

No justificaction at all. If there is no effect on the heterosexual lifestyle. And there's the rub. Many feel, as do I that the gay agenda is pervasive in media and politics and is being forced fed upon an unwilling populace. I have no problem with gay individuals. I do have a problem with the small, but vocal and radical gay minority leading their policitcal and social agenda,
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My .02. :)

I don't think it's if you are gay or straight, but how you make those around you feel. Let me explain.

At a previous job, I was doing IT desktop support. So I was always having to help out those in the company. The Media department was probably 85% gay. Two people come to mind. Joe and Rod. Both were gay, however Joe was aware that people aren't necessarily receptive to homosexuality. So he let his personality shine through first. It would slip now and then that his 'partner' and him were going away for the weekend or such, but it was not emphasized. Rod, on the other hand had a male model calendar in his cube and just made you feel more creepy.

I still respect Joe for trying to make those around him comfortable with his life. Rod would rather shout it out.

I hope that makes sense. :)
 
Definition: Abnormal behavior — Behavior that is maladaptive and harmful

Not to stir anything up, but I doubt that homosexuality fits the definition for abnormal psych.

Normalcy is defined by the majority view, and I suspect homosexuality does not fit the current classic definition of abnormal behaviour. This is probably due in large part by more studies of sexual behaviour in the adult population. Not too long ago, sex was taboo and not widely studied in any academic fashion. The change in the definition of homosexuality from "abnormal" to not abnormal probably has more to due with greater studies proving its prevalence, rather than some "gay agenda." IMHO.
 
Well, it doesnt make a damn bit of difference to me. Last time I checked, I wasnt the judge of all that is good and right. I know of some gay pilots. It's personally their deal and not mine. I actually asked them why I didn't pick up that they were gay at first. Their response was, "Look, do you go out in public and suck your wife's tongue in front of others? Do you slap her ass? Is your voice deeper b/c you sleep with women? No. Well it comes down to the fact that you have to be respectful of the one your with. Those are intimate gestures that are left to quiet times." That was their response.

Yes, they do go to a lot of fly-ins together but you would never know that they weren't just good friends that fly around. Same thing with me, you would never know that my wife isn't my slutty girlfriend. :) LOL
Brent:cool:
 
live and let live is my motto. I couldn't care less. I feel uncomfortable about ANY over-the-top PDA no matter what the orientation, but I figure that's my problem and I'd look the other way.
 
Brent Bradford said:
Same thing with me, you would never know that my wife isn't my slutty girlfriend. :) LOL
Brent:cool:
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The least you could have done was post pictures so we could be the judge of that.... :D :rolleyes:
 
Joe Williams said:
kids go to school and are forced to sit in classes where they are told the lifestyle is normal, and that regarding it as the sin the Bible says it is is "hatred" and "wrong."
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I'd say that teaching kids that it is acceptable is a better way of doing things. If you tell kids that it is abnormal or "different", then it might continue a negative light on it. In other words, in the government's view, it should be seen as acceptable. In each family however, that's your own decision. Just like today, sexual education is taught with the prevention of disease in mind. To some people, it's as if the school is teaching kids how to have sex. In the end; however, it's not the school's decision whether or not you have sex. By the same token, just by teaching kids that homosexuality is normal, that is simply the government's view, and has no bearing on whether or not the child will see it the same way, but it probably helps to prevent ridicule and attacks on gays.

Personally I think the reason there is a "politcal agenda" by gays, and why they're so vocal about it, is that there is a large difference in the rights of gays vs straight people. Mainly with marriage. I wholeheartedly believe that once gay marriage is allowed, the shoving down the throats that people are speaking about will disappear.

This is where it gets very tough to discuss. If you allow gay marriage, you'll get an outcry from the religious side that it is immoral and wrong and should not have happened. If you don't allow it, you'll get the outcry from gays who will state they are being unfairly discriminated against. In either case, you've got the shoving down the throats of one side or the other. In reality, you can't appease everyone, and whoever you don't appease will probably make themselves heard one way or another.

As I've said, I have no problem with it, I wouldn't even mind if you gave your partner a peck on the lips in public. I've known a number of gay men and women and none of them are the leather wearing flamboyant in your face type (In fact the only ones I've seen of those have been on TV shows and movies. Hmm.). Furthermore, I've yet to meet a family who believes their child was "recruited" by homosexuals. I really kinda wish that term would go away, but I guess there will almost always be someone who feels it is a choice. I don't think it is, but science hasn't gone one way or the other.
 
sshekels said:
Definition: Abnormal behavior — Behavior that is maladaptive and harmful

Not to stir anything up, but I doubt that homosexuality fits the definition for abnormal psych.
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It absolutely does NOT. The definitive book is the DSM-IV, and you will not find homosexuality in there. (It was in previous editions.)
 
Greebo said:
Perhaps they do - but so long as the gay lifestyle has no effect upon the straight person who feels it is wrong, what justification does the straight person have for being angry or even concerned about it?
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Actually, I'm OK with them being (or feeling) angry as I don't feel I have the right to "control" what another thinks, what concerns me is when someone expresses their anger publicly.
 
Moxie said:
Are you kidding? Would that I were gay, then I wouldn't have all of these cross-gender communication problems I always seem to run into.
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What are you trying to say? You have trouble understanding
us frogs?

;-)
 
I say go. Even people who are uncomfortable at a societal/political level are constrained to act civilly. There is all kinds of testimony about how well gay people are treated by their neighbors and co-workers in conservative middle-America (in fact, a story on NPR just 2-3 days ago). You will see some negative body language and verbal clues, but if you are an out gay man, you probably have felt it a hundred times already, as do racial and ethnic minorities (and women in some settings, including aviation). Anyway, I don't believe the level of social conservatism expressed on aviation websites is an accurate reflection of pilots in general.

Best wishes-- Hunter
 
wsuffa said:
The least you could have done was post pictures so we could be the judge of that.... :D :rolleyes:
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I would, but I dont have any that I can post on this site....(I do photography on the side for extra money). The moderators would have a fit!

Brent
 
Dear Unregistered,

I have an "out of curiosity" question for you that's a bit of a side step. Within the general flying population only about 6% are women. You mentioned you're a member of a gay pilot group and am wondering if you feel the ratios of female to male are any different within it? (I do have a friend that's a member but never thought to ask him.)

Are lesbian women more or less or equally inclined towards flying airplanes than straight gals? And if there is a difference, why would that be?
 
Moxie,

Do you really expect an answer to your question? I wouldn't touch that one with the proverbial 10' pole!

Gary
 
Dear Anon:

Can you fly an airplane? Do you have something to add to an aviation conversation? Do you enjoy the company of fellow pilots? If you answered yes to those three questions then show up at the fly in. If its the Fly-B-Que I started at Wings KLOM then I'd be annoyed if you and your partner didn't show up after all of the previous eight pages of posts have made it very clear that this is not an issue.

:blueplane:
 
AdamZ said:
Dear Anon:

Can you fly an airplane? Do you have something to add to an aviation conversation? Do you enjoy the company of fellow pilots? If you answered yes to those three questions then show up at the fly in. If its the Fly-B-Que I started at Wings KLOM then I'd be annoyed if you and your partner didn't show up after all of the previous eight pages of posts have made it very clear that this is not an issue.

:blueplane:
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But... you won't know who to be annoyed at LOL
 
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