Gaston’s 2024, who’s in? Sept. 27-29. 3M0 or KBPK.

Which weekend

  • Sept. 20-22

    Votes: 6 42.9%

  • Sept. 27-29

    Votes: 9 64.3%

  • Oct. 4-6

    Votes: 8 57.1%
  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .
mandm said:
YESSS!!!

Will the resort give us a room block?

Last time it felt a little rushed doing Fri - Sun, yes I know people might have other commitments, but for those who don’t, should we arrive on Thurs and leave on Sunday? (or feel free to suggest dates and we will follow)

So far it’s M&M and the pups, and our two friends might join as well again (from the Rough River fly-in). We all had a great time!!

We are available all 3 dates but if we have to pick we will go with Sept 20-22, I have some tentative stuff on the other 2 but Gaston’s will take priority. Our friends requested Sept 20-22 as well.
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In the past Gastons had traditionally been Thursday thru Sunday...until just a few years ago.
 
kaiser said:
We can take it into quite short strips. Boss doesn't like it on gravel however. If you charter it, then it's a 135 trip - which means you can't ride up front :( and I can't be PIC (yet) :( I think market rate for PC12s are 2-2.5k/hr. I wonder what Part we operate under if I charter it.. if 91 then I have to pay my pro-rata share. I'd probably save money going 7.5h in the J3 than 1.5h in the PC12.
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You're not chartering it, you're renting it.

If you chartered it, you wouldn't be allowed to fly it! But if you rent it and fly it yourself, it's part 91, you just need to pay your share. How many seats does it have again?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
You're not chartering it, you're renting it.

If you chartered it, you wouldn't be allowed to fly it! But if you rent it and fly it yourself, it's part 91, you just need to pay your share. How many seats does it have again?
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Pilot + 9. So 700-ish/person pro rata for round trip? It’ll do full seats with almost full fuel.

Dave Theisen said:
I deeply regret not taking advantage of being able to rent a PC-12 from my previous employer. Should have taken the family on a trip or rolled into Rough River in one. At least my wife and daughter got to tag along on a few of my trips.
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I’m still new enough that I don’t have a strong feel for how open the owners are for this. I suspect yes since the previous pilot did a trip or two… but he had a very long lasting relationship with them. I’d definitely be at risk for renting this plane “too much” if they allowed me - especially if they charge me less than the charter rate. For example, the fuel burn on this would be roughly the same as renting the P32R in $/nm. If I do bring this to one of our flyins, I’ll be sure to grab you… and pick your brain on it!
 
kaiser said:
Pilot + 9. So 700-ish/person pro rata for round trip? It’ll do full seats with almost full fuel.


I’m still new enough that I don’t have a strong feel for how open the owners are for this. I suspect yes since the previous pilot did a trip or two… but he had a very long lasting relationship with them. I’d definitely be at risk for renting this plane “too much” if they allowed me - especially if they charge me less than the charter rate. For example, the fuel burn on this would be roughly the same as renting the P32R in $/nm. If I do bring this to one of our flyins, I’ll be sure to grab you… and pick your brain on it!
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If I get to take off and land once each I’m game haha
 
Ugh. I still haven’t booked yet. Before I do, I would anyone want to split one of those 2 bedroom cabins?


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We are probably out. Septic tank caved in this weekend, and a picture window decided to show us it was rotting this weekend as well, so we have to fork out money for those.

You can probably see it is a pretty ****ty situation.
 
EdFred said:
We are probably out. Septic tank caved in this weekend, and a picture window decided to show us it was rotting this weekend as well, so we have to fork out money for those.

You can probably see it is a pretty ****ty situation.
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On the picture window, if you only lost the seal and have some fogging, it is a loss of R 0.5 insulation value. At least according to my research. I’ve lost my south facing window seals and it’d take decades of heating and cooling to justify their replacement.
 
I just watched a video of “how to land at Gaston’s”. Here is one of the comments. People are literally insane.

“Great video Al. Making a descending left base (to land to the west) over the river gives us airspeed from potential energy of altitude to prevent stall. Thus a 1 g turn of whatever bank angle. Good energy management.

Since down drainage egress is a major consideration, takeoff to the east seems safer to me even with some tailwind. If we use the soft field takeoff technique, which is actually the best short field technique because of extra free ground effect energy, we can easily make cruise airspeed level in low ground effect before pitch up. Yes, the bluff is high. Zoom reserve airspeed, enough airspeed to be able to maneuver quickly without stall, will enable us to turn over the field where the big wire with lots of flags attaches to the first pole (or second) on the ground after descending the bluff. With Vy over the bluff, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt. Down drainage over what we call a "bottom field" in river country, with zoom reserve airspeed (save it by not pitching up immediately), is never in doubt.”
 
eman1200 said:
I just watched a video of “how to land at Gaston’s”. Here is one of the comments. People are literally insane.

“Great video Al. Making a descending left base (to land to the west) over the river gives us airspeed from potential energy of altitude to prevent stall. Thus a 1 g turn of whatever bank angle. Good energy management.

Since down drainage egress is a major consideration, takeoff to the east seems safer to me even with some tailwind. If we use the soft field takeoff technique, which is actually the best short field technique because of extra free ground effect energy, we can easily make cruise airspeed level in low ground effect before pitch up. Yes, the bluff is high. Zoom reserve airspeed, enough airspeed to be able to maneuver quickly without stall, will enable us to turn over the field where the big wire with lots of flags attaches to the first pole (or second) on the ground after descending the bluff. With Vy over the bluff, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt. Down drainage over what we call a "bottom field" in river country, with zoom reserve airspeed (save it by not pitching up immediately), is never in doubt.”
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140fhs.jpg
 
masloki said:
On the picture window, if you only lost the seal and have some fogging, it is a loss of R 0.5 insulation value. At least according to my research. I’ve lost my south facing window seals and it’d take decades of heating and cooling to justify their replacement.
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Theres a huge hole in the frame. Looked like a little crack and when I put a little pressure to see what was going on there was nothing behind the crack. Caved right in.
 
eman1200 said:
I just watched a video of “how to land at Gaston’s”. Here is one of the comments. People are literally insane.

“Great video Al. Making a descending left base (to land to the west) over the river gives us airspeed from potential energy of altitude to prevent stall. Thus a 1 g turn of whatever bank angle. Good energy management.

Since down drainage egress is a major consideration, takeoff to the east seems safer to me even with some tailwind. If we use the soft field takeoff technique, which is actually the best short field technique because of extra free ground effect energy, we can easily make cruise airspeed level in low ground effect before pitch up. Yes, the bluff is high. Zoom reserve airspeed, enough airspeed to be able to maneuver quickly without stall, will enable us to turn over the field where the big wire with lots of flags attaches to the first pole (or second) on the ground after descending the bluff. With Vy over the bluff, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt. Down drainage over what we call a "bottom field" in river country, with zoom reserve airspeed (save it by not pitching up immediately), is never in doubt.”
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Funny how you can recognize someone by their writing. I immediately knew who wrote that based on his writings on another flying forum. He's been indecipherable for a long, long time.
 
WTF is "zoom reserve airspeed" ??
 
eman1200 said:
I just watched a video of “how to land at Gaston’s”. Here is one of the comments. People are literally insane.

“Great video Al. Making a descending left base (to land to the west) over the river gives us airspeed from potential energy of altitude to prevent stall. Thus a 1 g turn of whatever bank angle. Good energy management.

Since down drainage egress is a major consideration, takeoff to the east seems safer to me even with some tailwind. If we use the soft field takeoff technique, which is actually the best short field technique because of extra free ground effect energy, we can easily make cruise airspeed level in low ground effect before pitch up. Yes, the bluff is high. Zoom reserve airspeed, enough airspeed to be able to maneuver quickly without stall, will enable us to turn over the field where the big wire with lots of flags attaches to the first pole (or second) on the ground after descending the bluff. With Vy over the bluff, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt. Down drainage over what we call a "bottom field" in river country, with zoom reserve airspeed (save it by not pitching up immediately), is never in doubt.”
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Sounds like @Jay Honeck's old wishful thinking.

Here's the thing. Engine power is constantly adding energy. Regardless of how you climb, you're spending some of that energy on drag, and you're banking the rest as potential energy (altitude). Vy puts the most possible potential energy into the bank. If you accelerate and zoom, you'll have a very short period above Vy where ground effect is helping you (maybe 5-10 knots), and then you're wasting a lot of your energy on drag, and when you pull up and zoom climb you will spend your remaining forward momentum on potential energy/altitude but it will never be as much as it was at Vy because you wasted it on drag.

Best way out of Gaston's is a straight ahead Vy climb towards the "gap" and once you clear the bluff, take a left. No power lines to worry about that way.
 
Sounds like @Jay Honeck's old wishful thinking.

I was thinking the same thing. It also brought to mind the video one of the members of POA made.
 
EdFred said:
WTF is "zoom reserve airspeed" ??
Click to expand...

Zoom Reserve - Backcountry Pilot

Zoom reserve is airspeed, the ability to climb with pitch up only. It is safely used to climb just over the obstruction keeping some money (maneuvering airspeed) in our pocket, We have adequate energy, airspeed, either for climbing over or maneuver…
backcountrypilot.org backcountrypilot.org
 
Jim K said:
People who think Gaston's is challenging should try 6Y9...
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They each have their own challenges.

6Y9 is shorter and obstructed by trees that did not follow the FAA 50-foot specification, and there is nowhere to go other than the field for miles around if something goes wrong.

3M0 forces you to land with trees very close to either side of you (I always have to remind myself that if a DC-3 can fit between them, so can I), it's harder to see the strip on downwind, and there's power lines everywhere. It's also pretty much one way in, one way out though if the winds strongly favor a departure to the west it can be done.

Of the two, I think 3M0 is generally more challenging and more dangerous.
 
eman1200 said:
I just watched a video of “how to land at Gaston’s”. Here is one of the comments. People are literally insane.

“Great video Al. Making a descending left base (to land to the west) over the river gives us airspeed from potential energy of altitude to prevent stall. Thus a 1 g turn of whatever bank angle. Good energy management.

Since down drainage egress is a major consideration, takeoff to the east seems safer to me even with some tailwind. If we use the soft field takeoff technique, which is actually the best short field technique because of extra free ground effect energy, we can easily make cruise airspeed level in low ground effect before pitch up. Yes, the bluff is high. Zoom reserve airspeed, enough airspeed to be able to maneuver quickly without stall, will enable us to turn over the field where the big wire with lots of flags attaches to the first pole (or second) on the ground after descending the bluff. With Vy over the bluff, the outcome of the maneuver is always in doubt. Down drainage over what we call a "bottom field" in river country, with zoom reserve airspeed (save it by not pitching up immediately), is never in doubt.”
Click to expand...
Lol. This isn't Colorado. Down drainage egress is not a major consideration. Most GA could take off either direction at Gaston’s. The only real obstacle to the west are power lines about 50’ above tree top height. Though all things equal, east has fewer risks. I've never made the bluff taking off east, and always follow the river around.
 
kaiser said:
Lol. This isn't Colorado. Down drainage egress is not a major consideration. Most GA could take off either direction at Gaston’s. The only real obstacle to the west are power lines about 50’ above tree top height. Though all things equal, east has fewer risks. I've never made the bluff taking off east, and always follow the river around.
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What are you flying? I've never NOT made the bluff. Mooney, 182, even Archer cleared it just fine.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What are you flying? I've never NOT made the bluff. Mooney, 182, even Archer cleared it just fine.
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Really??? Maybe I’m a wimp haha.

Last time I tried was a Piper Arrow II
(Shameless plug)
 
I didn’t find Gaston’s super challenging last year on my first trip out there. 6Y9 now that’s a different story….


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rwellner98 said:
Some of y'all haven't gone camping in Idaho or Utah and it shows. :)

But, seriously, personal minimums are real and it's great to see everyone here being careful.
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I really want to go out to Idaho and Utah but available time is my problem. Really difficult to do weekend trips that far from Indianapolis. So freedom in my schedule is what keeps me from venturing further west!!


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rwellner98 said:
Some of y'all haven't gone camping in Idaho or Utah and it shows.

But, seriously, personal minimums are real and it's great to see everyone here being careful.
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Some of us aren't flying planes that use 500 feet of runway and climb at 2000 fpm at 60kts. :p

That said I don't see the difficulty at Gaston’s if you fly a tight pattern. I didn't even know what power lines people were talking about on downwind and base for a long time because I was flying over / inside them. And the goal posts? How many times are people landing off center, especially with that field on approach. If you can't center up without anxiety, hmmmmm.
 
rwellner98 said:
Some of y'all haven't gone camping in Idaho or Utah and it shows. :)

But, seriously, personal minimums are real and it's great to see everyone here being careful.
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And I wouldn't recommend it without a good mountain flying course.

This one in particular: https://mountaincanyonflying.com/

Some of the most fun and best learning I've ever done in an airplane.
 
EdFred said:
Some of us aren't flying planes that use 500 feet of runway and climb at 2000 fpm at 60kts. :p
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There are tons of mountain strips that are accessible by "normal" airplanes.

flyingcheesehead said:
And I wouldn't recommend it without a good mountain flying course.

This one in particular: https://mountaincanyonflying.com/

Some of the most fun and best learning I've ever done in an airplane.
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I'll go a step further and note that such training is really fun and a good way to be a sharper pilot even if you don't intend to fly in the mountains.
 
I checked with reservations today and there are still cabins available. Ultra deluxe are running low. That said, winds can change and you can find yourself without a bed if you don’t book soon!
 
I hear kaiser is really good at bringing lighters. just can't be sure what happens to it after that....
 
kaiser said:
I'm a huge fan of what Colorado Pilots Association offers 2-3x a summer.
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They're missing a key aspect, though: Flying *in* the mountains and landing at high altitude backcountry strips, which to me was really the highlight.
(3U2 if you're looking... Lots of great USFS strips in the area too.)
2AA833A1-AA2E-49B1-A870-CE33E056C2EB_1_105_c.jpeg

As I understand it, CPA is more about flying *around* the mountains.

Which, I must admit, is also fun. Once you understand what's going on around the mountains and how to make use of it, you can do fun tricks like this: (Yes, normally aspirated)

C0F4C802-D780-4AB1-A7A6-B6E86FAE5961_1_105_c.jpeg
 
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