Garmin G5 with Aspen Pro 1000

rbridges

rbridges

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rbridges
My wife surprised me with a G5 AI for my birthday. Before I have it installed, I was wondering if anyone has had luck with installing it as a backup? My plan is to eventually have an Aspen unit installed, and I can't do that with a G5 since their both approved as primaries.
 
May not be applicable in your situation, but I have a friend who built an IFR RV-8 and uses a G5 to back up his G3X big screen.
 
I'd bee looking at the Aspen STC. The AI it won't replace, that's fo sho!
 
Not an avionics tech, but I don't know why the G5 could not be a backup for an Aspen. As an EFIS, the Aspen's STC requires a backup AI. However, some of us continue to use our Vacuum systems to drive an AI often because it is an effective way to continue to drive some of our legacy autopilots, which the AI G5 version cannot, and the Aspen's AI will not unless a $2500 adapter is purchased.
 
Unless things have changed recently G5 STC doesn’t allow installation of backup in certificated AC
 
WannFly said:
Unless things have changed recently G5 STC doesn’t allow installation of backup in certificated AC
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I'm curious. What constitutes making an AI primary? If it is only that it be located within a central and forward visual area, one could place it, as was mentioned, to swap with the TC that was in the common location in the six pack, for example. Now you would have 2 "primary" AIs, the one you designate as your primary in your scan, and the other that is acting as your backup. I'm certainly not sure, but could this only be semantics?
 
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MajorTurbulence said:
I'm curious. What constitutes making an AI primary? If it is only that it be located within a central and forward visual area, one could place it, as was mentioned, to swap with the TC that was in the common location in the six pack, for example. Now you would have 2 "primary" AIs, the one you designate as your primary in your scan, and the other that is acting as your backup. I'm certainly not sure, but could this only be semantics?
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probably just semantics, but per the STC document - http://static.garmin.com/pumac/SA01818WI_1710.pdf

upload_2018-6-19_14-18-5.png
 
don't confuse practicality with technicality.

Practically the G5 will function as an AI no problem.
Technically the FAA has not approved it to do so. (in that combination)
 
MajorTurbulence said:
Not an avionics tech, but I don't know why the G5 could not be a backup for an Aspen. As an EFIS, the Aspen's STC requires a backup AI. However, some of us continue to use our Vacuum systems to drive an AI often because it is an effective way to continue to drive some of our legacy autopilots, which the AI G5 version cannot, and the Aspen's AI will not unless a $2500 adapter is purchased.
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As I understand it, the G5 is certified under the TSO for primary attitude indicators, which was "relaxed" not too long ago to allow products like it to exist. The FAA apparently has figured out that the MTBF for an electronic instrument such as the G5 is sufficiently greater than the MTBF for mechanical gyros (and, for that matter, the alternators or vacuum pumps that power them) that it's as safe or safer to have the G5 than the original mechanical spinny gyro.

Unfortunately, they did NOT relax the standards on the TSO for backup attitude indicators, so the G5 does not and will not qualify as a backup unless one of two things happens: Either the FAA decides to relax the standards on the backup TSO, or Garmin decides to go through the extra testing (and add a battery) for the G5 to qualify as a backup under the existing TSO.

I'm sure there's been quite a lot of demand for such a thing, so it's possible that it may happen, but I would guess Garmin is probably going to wait to see what the FAA will do first, lest they have to charge $5K plus (like everyone else whose units ARE certified as backups) to recoup their certification costs. Or, it's possible that the new Part 23 could provide some help. :dunno:
 
MajorTurbulence said:
My reading of that seems to indicate Aspen primary, G5 secondary in place of TC - no problem for IFR. If you keep the TC somewhere, that makes the G5 Ok to be called a primary for IFR, so one would technically have 2 primary AIs when used with the Aspen.
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Unfortunately, the Aspen STC requires a backup AI. Two primaries won't cut it. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Unfortunately, the Aspen STC requires a backup AI. Two primaries won't cut it. :(
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I'm not saying your wrong, but the reasoning is so convoluted that I fail to see the distinction. For example, when I installed my Aspen, my primary AI was my vacuum driven AI gyro. It was backed up by my TC. Now the AI was moved to a subordinating position in favor of the ASPEN directly in my forward scan. So in my setup, I have a primary ASPEN AI, and the original primary vacuum AI which is serving now as my required backup per ASPEN STC. Therefore I have 2 Primary AIs, and its legal.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
As I understand it, the G5 is certified under the TSO for primary attitude indicators, which was "relaxed" not too long ago to allow products like it to exist. The FAA apparently has figured out that the MTBF for an electronic instrument such as the G5 is sufficiently greater than the MTBF for mechanical gyros (and, for that matter, the alternators or vacuum pumps that power them) that it's as safe or safer to have the G5 than the original mechanical spinny gyro.

Unfortunately, they did NOT relax the standards on the TSO for backup attitude indicators, so the G5 does not and will not qualify as a backup unless one of two things happens: Either the FAA decides to relax the standards on the backup TSO, or Garmin decides to go through the extra testing (and add a battery) for the G5 to qualify as a backup under the existing TSO.

I'm sure there's been quite a lot of demand for such a thing, so it's possible that it may happen, but I would guess Garmin is probably going to wait to see what the FAA will do first, lest they have to charge $5K plus (like everyone else whose units ARE certified as backups) to recoup their certification costs. Or, it's possible that the new Part 23 could provide some help. :dunno:
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I thought that the G5 comes with a battery.

One would think, although I realize this is FAA legalese, that if an AI is suitable to be used as a primary, it is more than qualified to be a backup. But your assertion is obviously contrary to that. This confirms to me why I never wanted to be a lawyer and play word gymnastics.
 
denverpilot said:
3 a & b of that kinda suck.

They also make me wonder how people are “removing their vacuum system” when they put in two G5s.

Suck. Vacuum system. You see what I did there. :)
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There is another document that has the combo, if u have 2 G5 and no AP that is dependent on the AI, vacuum system can be removed.
 
MajorTurbulence said:
I thought that the G5 comes with a battery.

One would think, although I realize this is FAA legalese, that if an AI is suitable to be used as a primary, it is more than qualified to be a backup. But your assertion is obviously contrary to that. This confirms to me why I never wanted to be a lawyer and play word gymnastics.
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Yah it boggles my mind that G5 can be primary but not backup. Doesn’t make any sense
 
WannFly said:
There is another document that has the combo, if u have 2 G5 and no AP that is dependent on the AI, vacuum system can be removed.
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Ahhh. Good lord. How does that alleviate having to follow this doc? I assume it says it in there, but ...

Nevermind. It’s FAA documentation. I should know better than to get my blood pressure up over the inconsistencies. ;)
 
MajorTurbulence said:
I'm not saying your wrong, but the reasoning is so convoluted that I fail to see the distinction. For example, when I installed my Aspen, my primary AI was my vacuum driven AI gyro. It was backed up by my TC. Now the AI was moved to a subordinating position in favor of the ASPEN directly in my forward scan. So in my setup, I have a primary ASPEN AI, and the original primary vacuum AI which is serving now as my required backup per ASPEN STC. Therefore I have 2 Primary AIs, and its legal.
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Hey, I never said it wasn't convoluted. This is, after all, the FAA we're talking about.

Also, your vacuum driven AI meets the TSO for a backup AI. Thus, you have the required backup to the Aspen, and your vacuum AI is the backup (not the primary).

The worst part about all this is that it's OK for a G5 to be your ONLY attitude indicator, but it can't be your backup! o_O

MajorTurbulence said:
I thought that the G5 comes with a battery.
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I think it does, but I'm not sure it meets the requirements for a backup. IIRC most of the glass displays can go for 1/2 hour with their own batteries, but I think the backup requires 2 hours. You can buy an extra battery for the G500 TXi to meet the requirement, for example, but the "included" battery doesn't.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Hey, I never said it wasn't convoluted. This is, after all, the FAA we're talking about.

Also, your vacuum driven AI meets the TSO for a backup AI. Thus, you have the required backup to the Aspen, and your vacuum AI is the backup (not the primary).

The worst part about all this is that it's OK for a G5 to be your ONLY attitude indicator, but it can't be your backup! o_O



I think it does, but I'm not sure it meets the requirements for a backup. IIRC most of the glass displays can go for 1/2 hour with their own batteries, but I think the backup requires 2 hours. You can buy an extra battery for the G500 TXi to meet the requirement, for example, but the "included" battery doesn't.
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G5 battery goes for 4 hrs (as per Garmin, I haven't tested it)
 
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