Garmin G5 STC-ed for HSI

murphey said:
I just ordered two, installation in June. Now I need a cheap GPS source.
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any idea how many shop hrs they are quoting you? just trying to understand how much it will cost to get it installed.
 
DesertNomad said:
So what is the better option: a pair of G5s or an Apsen?
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Will depend o what you are asking the G5's to do. If your AP requires a vacuum AI or is coupled to a mechanical HSI then the Aspen is the only one that can replace that functionality allowing you to ditch the vacuum instruments all together.

If you are mainly concerned about the displayed information and coupling to your GPS then the G5's will be comparable at half the cost. If the G5 (AI or HSI functions) talked to AP's it would be a major hit on the benefits of the Aspen. Not knocking Aspen at all. Great products. Just too much $ for me personally.
 
arkvet said:
Will depend o what you are asking the G5's to do. If your AP requires a vacuum AI or is coupled to a mechanical HSI then the Aspen is the only one that can replace that functionality allowing you to ditch the vacuum instruments all together.

If you are mainly concerned about the displayed information and coupling to your GPS then the G5's will be comparable at half the cost. If the G5 (AI or HSI functions) talked to AP's it would be a major hit on the benefits of the Aspen. Not knocking Aspen at all. Great products. Just too much $ for me personally.
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I have an STEC-30... so will the G5 talk to it? ie can I move a heading bug on the G5 and have the AP follow it? My AP is rate-based so does not need the vacuum instruments.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have an STEC-30... so will the G5 talk to it? ie can I move a heading bug on the G5 and have the AP follow it? My AP is rate-based so does not need the vacuum instruments.
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No. The certified G5 has no autopilot outputs at all. In fact, it has no analog outputs at all. The lack of any analog capability on the G5 (in or out) is the limiting factor (though that's probably what keeps the cost down). The experimental G5 has autopilot outputs, but they're digital so they still wouldn't work with any "legacy" autopilots.
 
Unlikely given what Garmin as said


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My issue with Aspen is... have they upgraded their hardware once in the last ten years? Faster processor, anything?


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WannFly said:
any idea how many shop hrs they are quoting you? just trying to understand how much it will cost to get it installed.
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Quote coming later this week or early next. Backordered to June
 
DesertNomad said:
So what is the better option: a pair of G5s or an Apsen?
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The G5s lack a lot of features that Aspen has, like displaying moving map data, traffic, storm scope, "legacy" older analog radio & autopilot interfaces etc, but for the prices I can see the G5 being very successful. Maybe Aspen will reduce pricing to try and snatch up some lower hanging fruit.
 
Yes features. But the basic platform is unchanged.


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gsengle said:
Yes features. But the basic platform is unchanged.


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I thought that was the beauty of software based avionics, you don't have to do a compete makeover to improve them. Makeover almost guarantees wiring will be involved which adds cost and structure alterations adds even more.
 
gsengle said:
My issue with Aspen is... have they upgraded their hardware once in the last ten years? Faster processor, anything?


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If you don't need a faster processor then why bother? I haven't seen it in real life, don't know if the display could be improved.
 
teejayevans said:
If you don't need a faster processor then why bother? I haven't seen it in real life, don't know if the display could be improved.
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I flew one for around 15 hours or so, I thought it was pretty slick, but way out of my price range.

With multiple Aspens each one does different tasks so I would think that really help eliminate process speed issues
 
I am a little surprised Aspen doesn't offer a different line of equipment (additional equipment) for experimental. Like large screen type stuff.
 
It kooks like at one time Aspen offered an IFR certified one for around $6k, now it looks like the cheapest IFR one is about $11k
 
This is the reason for the new G1000, new processors lower power draw, less heat, etc etc. which in turn allows better and faster graphics, higher resolution for a sharper image, new features that require more processing etc. a lot has changed in ten years. I would have thought the new units coming off the line would have been upgraded by now again much like Garmin is doing with the g1000.


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gsengle said:
This is the reason for the new G1000, new processors lower power draw, less heat, etc etc. which in turn allows better and faster graphics, higher resolution for a sharper image, new features that require more processing etc. a lot has changed in ten years. I would have thought the new units coming off the line would have been upgraded by now again much like Garmin is doing with the g1000.


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Only took Garmin 13 years to do it...
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...rmin-launches-new-generation-of-g1000-cockpit

Aspen Evolution series was announce almost 10 years ago per their new feed.
https://www.aspenavionics.com/image... Aspen Announces Evolution Flight Display.pdf
 
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Fair enough, but times up!


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Aspen is cashing in on a device that hasn't changed. Why put R&D $ into something that still sells well until they need to? Suckers are still buying them.

But as far as the $cost goes... I'm sure the device certification adds some cost, but no where near what we've been lead to believe. If these manufacturers can make a good profit selling the experimental versions, they are absolutely reaming the certified market. They've got us believing that just what certified devices cost, and we've been paying for it ever since. The EAA is doing us a huge service by opening up the door for the certified market like this.
 
If upgrade of a component's core is unnecessary then I wouldn't push a manufacturer to do it. If there is reliability issues or actual increased capability that requires it then by all means its just part of doing business.

Doing it for arbitrary reasons is a great way to find yourself making a decisions to cut off repair services for the older version due to costs associated with keeping parts in stock for both units, forcing those with the older versions to upgrade to the newer ones at a (usually) significantly higher cost, and losing customers.
 
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I'm seriously considering installing a G5, I got an estimate, $2150 for the G5 plus an estimated 8-10 hrs labor. That would be about another $1k in labor. That's replacing (not relocating) old attitude indicator, hooking up to 430W, pitot and static lines, level and run vibration test. Also all FAA paperwork for IFR.

Again, this is an estimate, I'd guess shop time will vary, but 8-10 hrs seems to be more install time than I've seen other have. I'm going to call the avionics shop today and find out what the time frame will be.
 
Just be aware, the HSI interface isn't even available to the dealers yet, the documents don't exist. The HSI portion of the STC is still being developed.

I expect the HSI to require the installation of a GMU of some model (magnetometer) and it could prove challenging due to interference. See table 1-1 in the link below for example.

http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/190-01051-00_0A.pdf
 
GBSoren said:
I'm seriously considering installing a G5, I got an estimate, $2150 for the G5 plus an estimated 8-10 hrs labor. That would be about another $1k in labor. That's replacing (not relocating) old attitude indicator, hooking up to 430W, pitot and static lines, level and run vibration test. Also all FAA paperwork for IFR.

Again, this is an estimate, I'd guess shop time will vary, but 8-10 hrs seems to be more install time than I've seen other have. I'm going to call the avionics shop today and find out what the time frame will be.
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I got an estimate of 25 hrs, from a local shop - thanked them and hung up the phone. So I'm going my preferred shop,which is somewhat inconvnient but definitely more realistic with estimates.
 
murphey said:
I got an estimate of 25 hrs, from a local shop - thanked them and hung up the phone. So I'm going my preferred shop,which is somewhat inconvnient but definitely more realistic with estimates.
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The early adopters always pay for the installers to learn. But even if they have never done it before, 25 hours seems outrageous for a replacement device with no outputs.
 
25 hours for 1 or 2 G5's? 10 hours is the usual quote based on my recent install.
 
No outputs but pitot static work... not really a straight replacement.


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Installing a G5 and pulling the existing vacuum AI should be in the neighborhood of 10 hours. If your vacuum AI must be relocated (lets say to the T/C slot) then 25+ hours is typical. Moving the existing AI is often more work that installing the G5. Been there (almost done that).
 
Garmin rep at Sun 'n Fun told me that heading bug output support for autopilots is by far their number one request for the G5 HSI and they understand that the lack of heading bug support is impacting sales. Perhaps we may see this added by Oshkosh.
 
PilotRocker said:
Garmin rep at Sun 'n Fun told me that heading bug output support for autopilots is by far their number one request for the G5 HSI and they understand that the lack of heading bug support is impacting sales. Perhaps we may see this added by Oshkosh.
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If so, so the price will climb.
The certication requirements for every different make and configuration of autopilot would seen onerous.
 
GRG55 said:
If so, so the price will climb.
The certication requirements for every different make and configuration of autopilot would seen onerous.
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True, but without integration with AP, a lot of people won't even think about buying a G5, even when they want to.

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WannFly said:
True, but without integration with AP, a lot of people won't even think about buying a G5, even when they want to.

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Yes, and at a higher price a lot of people without autopilots in their airplanes (a lot of those out there) won't think about buying a G5 either. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
Yes, and at a higher price a lot of people without autopilots in their airplanes (a lot of those out there) won't think about buying a G5 either. ;)
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catch 22. does the Aspen VFR glass panel provide integration with AP? if so, that could be a good alternate, especially at their 4k price point now
 
WannFly said:
catch 22. does the Aspen VFR glass panel provide integration with AP? if so, that could be a good alternate, especially at their 4k price point now
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The Aspen has the capability, including GPSS - but do not know if they make it available in the VFR version.
So does the Garmin G500/600 PFD/MFD.

Maybe Garmin will provide a heading and wing leveller only output from the G5 for VFR...
 
GRG55 said:
The Aspen has the capability, including GPSS - but do not know if they make it available in the VFR version.
So does the Garmin G500/600 PFD/MFD.
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good to know. the 500/600 doesn't compare/compete to the dual G5 set up, however is sounds like Aspen sure does.
 
Garmin must know that making the HSI feed the TRIO autopilot (recently STC'd) is a no brainer. TRIO will likely be replacing many ancient APs.

I know of at least one Autocontrol I whose days are numbered.
 
gsengle said:
This is the reason for the new G1000, new processors lower power draw, less heat, etc etc. which in turn allows better and faster graphics, higher resolution for a sharper image, new features that require more processing etc. a lot has changed in ten years. I would have thought the new units coming off the line would have been upgraded by now again much like Garmin is doing with the g1000.


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It would be more appropriate to compare Aspen against what Garmin is doing with the G500/600, since both products are targeting the certified retrofit market. The G1000 and all of its derivatives cannot be installed as a retrofit.
 
I wonder when we will see G500 upgrades, I'm waiting


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gsengle said:
I wonder when we will see G500 upgrades, I'm waiting


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Bingo!
Just like Aspen, Garmin has added features and capability to the G500/600 (such as SVT), but I think the box is the same display and processor since it was introduced.
 
It seems like after ten years both Garmin and Aspen are due to take advantage of the better higher resolution screens lower power consumption cooler processors to run upgraded versions of their displays. Something should be coming soon. And unless my KI256 dies and forces the issue, I'm doing nothing for now.


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