Gami gas has arrived...

Hang 4 said:
Does a Cirrus have composite tanks? They have been running 100UL in one for about 10 years. Resins are the same as used in fiberglass
Click to expand...
Older Cirri have composite tanks (composite wet wings). This is part of why they are so apt to burn after a crash - Metal bends, composites splinter.

Newer Cirri - last 10 years or so IIRC - have an aluminum tank inside the composite wing.

Any idea what year the one they're using is?
 
WDD said:
Looks like apple juice; I would have thought they would have required a color to be added, as they do blue for LL.
Click to expand...

It is dyed. It would be clear otherwise.
 
flyingron said:
It is dyed. It would be clear otherwise.
Click to expand...
If the color is as intended, looks like this could be confused for JetA more easily than 100LL.

Since they aren’t making 80 leaded anymore, maybe make UL 100 red.
 
Last edited:
Red's not available anymore. The IRS took it.
I suspect the yellow is to make it apparent when it is mixed with the 100LL blue to make a greenish blend. Originally, G100UL was supposed to be green.
 
Hang 4 said:
Resins are the same as used in fiberglass
Click to expand...
There are many different resins that can be used with fiberglass, with varying chemical compatibility. This became an issue when ethanol started to be added to auto fuel... boats (and some airplanes) with tanks made with vinylester resin had serious problems, while tanks made with epoxy resin were OK. There may well be a similar (but different) problem with G100 (or any other 100LL replacement).

Just like any other fuel system component... some may be compatible with one chemical, some with another... but other than teflon and some other fluoropolymers, just about nothing is compatible with everything, other than metal and glass.
 
Dana said:
Just like any other fuel system component... some may be compatible with one chemical, some with another... but other than teflon and some other fluoropolymers, just about nothing is compatible with everything, other than metal and glass.
Click to expand...
Even metals have problems. Higher percentage ethanol blends will destroy aluminum.
 
I really want GAMI G100UL to work! But this is not encouraging...

www.avweb.com

FAA Looking Into Possible G100UL Fuel Issues

The FAA is now reportedly investigating reports of damage to aircraft related to their use of GAMI's G100UL unleaded fuel in California. Inspectors looked at
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
 
Last edited:
FPK1 said:
I really want GAMI G100UL to work! But this not encouraging...

www.avweb.com

FAA Looking Into Possible G100UL Fuel Issues

The FAA is now reportedly investigating reports of damage to aircraft related to their use of GAMI's G100UL unleaded fuel in California. Inspectors looked at
www.avweb.com www.avweb.com
Click to expand...
I'm holding judgement until we get more information. What was the condition of the planes before fuel was used? Peeling paint, etc., has been occurring with leaded fuel for a long time. Is it caused by GAMI, or just correlated with its use?
 
Gami already put out a video of their own test after complaints.

 
Racerx said:
Gami already put out a video of their own test after complaints.

Click to expand...
Applaud wanting to address this quickly. But that bench top test isn't appropriate at this time. Need to replicate - if possible - the field experience. What planes were involved in the complaints? Age of paint that was involved? Bring in paint experts / airplane painters who can offer advice on the wide range of paint on aircraft, and specifically get information on the paint on the airplanes in the field that are being examined.

For example, the above video is a test on 20 year old paint. What other paint chemistry has been used in the past? Single Stage paint from the 60's, 70's, etc.?

Maybe they already have - but would be great if they explained why they picked a 20 year old painted part for the test.
 
WDD said:
Applaud wanting to address this quickly. But that bench top test isn't appropriate at this time. Need to replicate - if possible - the field experience. What planes were involved in the complaints? Age of paint that was involved? Bring in paint experts / airplane painters who can offer advice on the wide range of paint on aircraft, and specifically get information on the paint on the airplanes in the field that are being examined.

For example, the above video is a test on 20 year old paint. What other paint chemistry has been used in the past? Single Stage paint from the 60's, 70's, etc.?

Maybe they already have - but would be great if they explained why they picked a 20 year old painted part for the test.
Click to expand...
I don't think most airplane painters are experts in paint chemistry. But Gami did solicit ideas or methods to test. So if you've got an idea, send it there way.

I believe they chose a 20 yr old bonanza part as they had it available. It wasn't brand new and was a bit beat up. It wasn't pristine. And an adequate representation for the fleet.

The AOPA Baron had bladder leaks but no paint stripping issues.
 
Given how effective a paint stripper G100UL seems to be, I wonder what it does if you get a little on your hands or clothes.
 
Racerx said:
I don't think most airplane painters are experts in paint chemistry.
Click to expand...
Don't need to be. But their knowledge of what paint exists in the real world is invaluable. They could guide GAMI to test XYZ single stage what not found in Cessna's in 1966-1977, with XYZ primer...... etc. Or 1990-2020 Pipers used this paint.

The more you can bring in the real world into testing, the better.
 
Gami was testing this fuel in a Cirrus for the last 12 years. Was also tested at ERAU. Presumably the same paint and seals that are now an issue.

Id be shocked if that bonanza louvre was anything but a single stage. I can't imagine 2- stage was ever popular. Imron single stage was probably the go to for years. Why add more work and more weight. It's been around forever. Jet-Glo now might be the go to.

"In 1972, DuPont introduced Imron polyurethane enamel, characterizing it as "the wet look that lasts" because of its gloss, chemical resistance and durability"

Id be more interested in finding out what that paint was the a&p tested. He admitted he didn't even know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
G100UL 100% stains paint in a non-removable way, at least on my plane painted in 2018 with Sherman Williams aviation paints (I forget which process it was and my invoice just shows 'custom paint').

Here is a pic of a drip from a on my plane. I've tried every cleaner I have in my hangar (various Wash-Wax-All products, Simple Green Aircraft, Dawn Power Wash, Plexus, etc) but none have touched it, or any of the other stains.

Even though the ops guys do a pretty good job of avoiding spills and cleaning up any that do happen, each of my fuel caps have some brown spots around them from missed spills.

2024-12-22 15.05.50.jpg
 
Sherwin Williams Jet-Glo
 
clear_prop said:
G100UL 100% stains paint in a non-removable way, at least on my plane painted in 2018 with Sherman Williams aviation paints (I forget which process it was and my invoice just shows 'custom paint').

Here is a pic of a drip from a on my plane. I've tried every cleaner I have in my hangar (various Wash-Wax-All products, Simple Green Aircraft, Dawn Power Wash, Plexus, etc) but none have touched it, or any of the other stains.

Even though the ops guys do a pretty good job of avoiding spills and cleaning up any that do happen, each of my fuel caps have some brown spots around them from missed spills.

View attachment 137436
Click to expand...
Have you tried a solvent, like acetone, 100ll, or more g100ul?
 
Racerx said:
I believe they chose a 20 yr old bonanza part as they had it available. It wasn't brand new and was a bit beat up. It wasn't pristine. And an adequate representation for the fleet.
Click to expand...
"Adequate" for a tiny part of the fleet, maybe.

Imron, Ranthane, butyrate dope, poly-tone, enamel, epoxy, Oratex, Stewart system, zinc chromate primer, spar varnish, etc., etc...
 
One of the solvents suggested above might work.

I have Imron paint from 1989. I can use brake cleaner or carb cleaner to remove 100LL blue. Be careful with it if you try it on your paint.
 
Jim K said:
Have you tried a solvent, like acetone, 100ll, or more g100ul?
Click to expand...
I've tried more G100UL since more 100LL works for 100LL stains, but the G100UL didn't remove the stain. I don't have easy access to 100LL any more being based at RHV.
 
I'd be careful trying to remove the stains with more solvents. Have you tried a polishing compound? I think GAMI has done that on some of their stained panels with good success.
 
bonefishpete said:
With the new administration. Other than California is unleaded aviation fuel a moot point now?
Click to expand...

I think posting this is within the rules: I expect more market pressure than regulatory pressure going forward.
 
bonefishpete said:
With the new administration. Other than California is unleaded aviation fuel a moot point now?
Click to expand...
I think we're still on the ten year clock established by EAGLE and EPA. I would be shocked to see that change.
 
clear_prop said:
G100UL 100% stains paint in a non-removable way, at least on my plane painted in 2018 with Sherman Williams aviation paints (I forget which process it was and my invoice just shows 'custom paint').

Here is a pic of a drip from a on my plane. I've tried every cleaner I have in my hangar (various Wash-Wax-All products, Simple Green Aircraft, Dawn Power Wash, Plexus, etc) but none have touched it, or any of the other stains.

Even though the ops guys do a pretty good job of avoiding spills and cleaning up any that do happen, each of my fuel caps have some brown spots around them from missed spills.

View attachment 137436
Click to expand...
I hope you reported to the FAA, here is the link:

Dynamic Regulatory System

drs.faa.gov drs.faa.gov
 
Swift is testing their 100r on engines already capable of running on lesser octane. Their plan to tackle more high performance engines is to test on the only tsio 550 model already eligible for 94ul.

Phase out 94ul. To phase in 100r. Only 100r still hasn't been tested on the engines that actually require 100 octane.

I am not impressed.
 
Racerx said:
Swift is testing their 100r on engines already capable of running on lesser octane. Their plan to tackle more high performance engines is to test on the only tsio 550 model already eligible for 94ul.

Phase out 94ul. To phase in 100r. Only 100r still hasn't been tested on the engines that actually require 100 octane.

I am not impressed.
Click to expand...

Agreed! But maybe they believe if they say it loud & long enough ...
 
I'm counting on converting to a Deltahawk and burning Jet-A.
 
My experimental burns various fuels. Might have to start using some corn squeezins ... :dunno:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top