G5 as a turn coordinator

Flyingfanatic

Flyingfanatic

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Can the G5 as an attitude indicator be used as a replacement of the turn coordinator?
 
Salty said:
But not as both an attitude indicator and turn coordinator replacement, right? Or have things changed?
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The current literature on the G5 says AI or TC, so I'd guess that's correct. Still, I'd want one of each, regardless of format.
 
Reading 91.205, would you need a dual G5 before the third one could be a turn coordinator for IFR flight? Not really clear on that.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
The current literature on the G5 says AI or TC, so I'd guess that's correct. Still, I'd want one of each, regardless of format.
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You need both for the full Monty. With the G5, they pretty much set up the STC to require both if you want functionality. Otherwise, it's really a halfassed way of doing it. Either do both G5s or just buy a used TC.
 
Anyone have a link to the information that expressly states whether it can or cannot be used as both an attitude indicator and turn coordinator?
 
Find the STC..... google is your friend.
 
Flyingfanatic said:
Anyone have a link to the information that expressly states whether it can or cannot be used as both an attitude indicator and turn coordinator?
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As someone mentioned above:

"In place of the aircraft’s primary attitude indicator or* turn coordinator, the G5 electronic flight instrument is approved for installation in either location via a Garmin-held STC for hundreds of certificated fixed-wing aircraft models. Valid for flight under VFR and IFR conditions, the G5 electronic flight instrument is an economical upgrade for thousands of aircraft owners who are seeking an electronic attitude indicator with greater dependability and internal redundancy over mechanical gyro-driven flight instruments."

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviation/announcement-g5-certificated/

*Bold was my own.
 
Yes...I know...old thread.

So I'm getting dual G5s installed. My understanding is that the DG and AI will be replaced with G5s. Do I keep my steam gauge turn coordinator, with the vacuum system? I thought dual G5s allowed me to pull the vacuum system, but I'm unsure.

Advice appreciated.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Yes...I know...old thread.

So I'm getting dual G5s installed. My understanding is that the DG and AI will be replaced with G5s. Do I keep my steam gauge turn coordinator, with the vacuum system? I thought dual G5s allowed me to pull the vacuum system, but I'm unsure.

Advice appreciated.
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You keep the turn coordinator. Removal of vac sys is dependent on electric turn coordinator being installed.
 
asicer said:
You have a vacuum TC? I thought they were all electric.
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Literally just got off the phone with my guru, who said that I have an electric TC, but that it's tied into my S-Tec autopilot (which is being removed in the panel upgrade), and it may not work as a stand-alone TC. Working on confirming that now.
 
If you don't need a vacuum attitude indicator to run an autopilot, use the G5 as attitude and get an electric TC (or reuse what you have if you can).
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Literally just got off the phone with my guru, who said that I have an electric TC, but that it's tied into my S-Tec autopilot (which is being removed in the panel upgrade), and it may not work as a stand-alone TC. Working on confirming that now.
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That would be very odd if it didn't work without the A/P.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Yes...I know...old thread.

So I'm getting dual G5s installed. My understanding is that the DG and AI will be replaced with G5s. Do I keep my steam gauge turn coordinator, with the vacuum system? I thought dual G5s allowed me to pull the vacuum system, but I'm unsure.

Advice appreciated.
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can I ask about the G5 vs GI275 decision?

It seems to not be a straightforward choice.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Literally just got off the phone with my guru, who said that I have an electric TC, but that it's tied into my S-Tec autopilot (which is being removed in the panel upgrade), and it may not work as a stand-alone TC. Working on confirming that now.
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That doesn't make sense.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Literally just got off the phone with my guru, who said that I have an electric TC, but that it's tied into my S-Tec autopilot (which is being removed in the panel upgrade), and it may not work as a stand-alone TC. Working on confirming that now.
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Really...? As long as it gets power, it will work...autopilot not necessary.

Now for my question: Exactly why do you need a turn coordinator ? You do realize it is very easy to compute your standard rate bank angle using IAS.

Also, my Stinson had a vacuum turn and bank..with a venturi.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
Literally just got off the phone with my guru, who said that I have an electric TC, but that it's tied into my S-Tec autopilot (which is being removed in the panel upgrade), and it may not work as a stand-alone TC. Working on confirming that now.
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It will work just fine as a TC. But it’s also a core component of the Stec so it really should be sold with the removed AP system. I have a Mico -7Z TC for $200 shipped if you want to keep one in there. PM me for pics.
 
Archer Jack said:
My g5 has a built in turn coordinator. Works fine.
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That's not really relevant to the question. The G5 does have a turn coordinator, but that doesn't make it approved as a replacement for the one already installed.
 
Our turn coordinator failed in our plane with a dual G5 config (replacing the old AI and HI) so I had reason to answer the same question as the OP. Our STC has this content:
  • For installations in aircraft approved for IFR operations:
    • If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude indicator, the existing rate of turn indicator must be retained.
(Highlights are mine.)
 
TknoFlyer said:
Our turn coordinator failed in our plane with a dual G5 config (replacing the old AI and HI) so I had reason to answer the same question as the OP. Our STC has this content:
  • For installations in aircraft approved for IFR operations:
    • If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude indicator, the existing rate of turn indicator must be retained.
(Highlights are mine.)
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Is that true if you have two G5s?
 
OneCharlieTango said:
Is that true if you have two G5s?
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In certified installations, yes.

The big limit to the G5 is each box is only a primary replacement for one instrument and it replaces either a primary attitude indicator or a DG/HSI.

Do whatever you want in E/AB land.
 
This is so simple its not even funny, use the Garmin STC to install dual G5s and trash your attitude and direction gyros. That's it done and nothing more to see here.

Replace the turn coordinator OR ADD a TSO digital RC Allen attitude indicator refencing FAA AC91-75 and call it a day.

Is your autopilot part of any of the old instruments? Then no soup for you.
 
TCABM said:
In certified installations, yes.

The big limit to the G5 is each box is only a primary replacement for one instrument and it replaces either a primary attitude indicator or a DG/HSI.
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bnt83 said:
This is so simple its not even funny, use the Garmin STC to install dual G5s and trash your attitude and direction gyros. That's it done and nothing more to see here.
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Anyone have any idea which of these conflicting statements is true?
 
One G5 (set up as an AI) can replace either the Attitude Indicator OR the Turn Coordinator, but not both.

One G5 (set up as a DG) can replace a DG, but it cannot replace an Attitude Indicator or a Turn Coordinator.

Most people do dual G5's and get ride of the vacuum system because they keep their electric turn coordinator.
 
Doug States said:
One G5 (set up as an AI) can replace either the Attitude Indicator OR the Turn Coordinator, but not both.

One G5 (set up as a DG) can replace a DG, but it cannot replace an Attitude Indicator or a Turn Coordinator.

Most people do dual G5's and get ride of the vacuum system because they keep their electric turn coordinator.
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I think we’re both right. Our dual G5 install is in an aircraft approved for IFR operations.

From pg 23 of the AML STC

2.1 Installation Limitations
It is the installer’s responsibility to ensure the installation will meet the requirements in this manual prior to modification of the aircraft.
The installation of the G5 requires the retention of the mechanical airspeed indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator.
• For this STC, a maximum of two G5 units may be installed in an aircraft.
• For installations in aircraft approved for IFR operations:
• If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude indicator, the existing rate of turn indicator must be retained.
• If the G5 is installed as the rate of turn indicator, the existing primary attitude indicator must be retained.
• For installations in aircraft approved for VFR-only operations;
• The G5 can be installed as the attitude indicator and rate of turn indicator without retention of
either the existing attitude indicator or rate of turn indicator.

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-10_28.pdf?download=true#page23
 
TCABM said:
I think we’re both right. Our dual G5 install is in an aircraft approved for IFR operations.

From pg 23 of the AML STC

2.1 Installation Limitations
It is the installer’s responsibility to ensure the installation will meet the requirements in this manual prior to modification of the aircraft.
The installation of the G5 requires the retention of the mechanical airspeed indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator.
• For this STC, a maximum of two G5 units may be installed in an aircraft.
• For installations in aircraft approved for IFR operations:
• If the G5 is installed as the primary attitude indicator, the existing rate of turn indicator must be retained.
• If the G5 is installed as the rate of turn indicator, the existing primary attitude indicator must be retained.
• For installations in aircraft approved for VFR-only operations;
• The G5 can be installed as the attitude indicator and rate of turn indicator without retention of
either the existing attitude indicator or rate of turn indicator.

https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-10_28.pdf?download=true#page23
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If you look at older revisions of that STC the "maximum of two G5 units" statement is not there. In fact, it was added to Install Manual Rev 24 on December 2, 2020, long after the STC was released in 2016.

Its been really interesting watching this STC develop, Up until Rev 16 of the install manual any previously approved GPS antenna installation could be connected to the G5, then after that revision only the glare shield mounted antenna was an approved configuration for installations using an antenna.
 
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TCABM said:
What is conflicting about the statements?
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The first comment was about the need to keep a separate turn coordinator. I misread the second one to mean that a turn coordinator was unnecessary.

My bad.
 
arnoha said:
Reading 91.205, would you need a dual G5 before the third one could be a turn coordinator for IFR flight? Not really clear on that.
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In Aug of 2018 when I took my plane in for a panel upgrade my turn coordinator wasn't working.
I had 2 G5s installed they said I still had to have separate TC. So they put in a rebuilt Midwest TC and it has been good for 900+ hrs so far.
IMG_1306.JPG
 
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