geneseib
Line Up and Wait
Anyone else ever have to stop for fuel on a commercial flight?
After a long hold for weather at Houston had to divert to Lake Charles LA to get fuel then back to Houston.
Fuel Stop On A Commercial Flight?
- Thread starter Geico266
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After a long hold for weather at Houston had to divert to Lake Charles LA to get fuel then back to Houston.
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Velocity173
767s also. 2009 flying to Afghanistan our route was Savannah to Nashua NH. Nashua to Iceland. Iceland to Germany. Germany to Bulgaria. Bulgaria to Krgyzstan. Painful! The guys who took the 747 only had one stop in Germany.
AdamZ
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
For real? You were on the Gimli Glider? You need to tell us about that!
What kind of 767 was that ? I just went ATL FRA (4009nm) on sunday and have gone ATL LOS (5078nm) in a 767 before. SAV to FRU is 6112nm great circle, so even with political detours this should have been one stop, not three.
Was this some deal where the government went with the cheapest bidder who didn't have their ETOPS certification up to date ?
Northwest used to fly Hartford Amsterdam in a 757. They had put some big bunny ear looking winglets on the thing. They definitely had the range, but not a sufficient number of lavatories....
comanchepilot
En-Route
Was on a TWA MD-80 flight same deal - left BUR for STL via LAS because the winds did not allow them to haul enough fuel eastbound. This was before cell phones - and I was meeting my fiance in STL to get on a flight to EWR to meet my mother for the first time - you can imagine what gate TWA assigned us when we arrvied in STL. Yep - the same gate that connecting flight was scheduled out to EWR. So, my fiance got to meet my crazy mother and spend 3 hours with her before my flight arrived from STL.
I told the gate agent the whole story. He offered to have my wife met [actually detained] on board the 727 into EWR, and have her sequestered in the VIP 'green' room for 3 hours until I arrived and have them tell my mother that our flight was delayed 3 hours. Really nice guy at the gate - I'd met him before. I declined and figured - wtf - she's marrying me - not the loonies that passed for family.
26 years later . . . here we are.
i've also stopped in ONT for 3 hours for wx to clear at LAX on a 707. Remote hardstand - no services.
And PHX for fuel on an AA 720 from ORD to LAX.
I told the gate agent the whole story. He offered to have my wife met [actually detained] on board the 727 into EWR, and have her sequestered in the VIP 'green' room for 3 hours until I arrived and have them tell my mother that our flight was delayed 3 hours. Really nice guy at the gate - I'd met him before. I declined and figured - wtf - she's marrying me - not the loonies that passed for family.
26 years later . . . here we are.
i've also stopped in ONT for 3 hours for wx to clear at LAX on a 707. Remote hardstand - no services.
And PHX for fuel on an AA 720 from ORD to LAX.
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Don't remember what version. It was some no name military contract airline. Fully loaded to the gills with Army dudes. Used up 2/3 of the 12,000 ft runway at SVN.
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Might have been Global. They had the contract for the rotator between Bagrain and NGU with stops in Italy and Spain/Azores IIRC. When I flew home in 2004, they were using a DC-10. When I was back in Bahrain in 2010, it was a 767.
Geico266
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Whoa! lucky you!
comanchepilot
En-Route
This is the reality - the big airlines unfortunately cannot do anything in less than 3 hours. A little airline like Southwest- sure - call the fueler - hit that airplane with 10000# of gas and send them on their way.
The big airlines need to act like they've never bought fuel before. . . . everything airline does has a procedure designed to make it take three times as long as it needs to. I'm sure they needed the pass hte new flight plan through a flight plan ops committee meeting that meets only every hour. Then the fuel purchase needs to be delayed until the ops committee meets to decide the route, then ops matches the fuel to the route then they have to check the contract through legal to make sure they can give the fuel to the pilots and then find a way to not pay them for the time. Thereafter ops needs to verify the routing in the computer, which then transmits the program directly to the FAA but that only happens every 30 minutes - so here we have minimum 2 hour delay that if you let the PIC do it would be as so:
While airborne, PIC send msg to OPS asking for 10000# of fuel at ABQ. 2 min
PIC and FO plan the flight from ABQ - LAX using the same route they flew last week - 7 min, 2 min to find the dispatch paperwork in the pilots briefcase. But Capt knows its just gonna be RDRNR2 ZUN J6 DRK J231 TNP SEAVU2
PIC sends it to OPS to file. 1 min
OPS CALLS the FSS, enters the flight plan for 45 min hence - flight to land in ABQ in 15 min.
Flight lands. OPS has fuel truck put 10k# onto aircraft - time 18 min.
After fueling, confirm W&B - 2 min
Call for CD - write down CRAFT - 2 min with read back.
Cleared to push hardstand. Engine start - and taxi 5 min.
Cleared for take off - elapsed time on ground : 27 min, total delay 32 min. Arrival? 20 min late.
Now: How United Airlines does it.
CAPT sends ACARS msg about insufficient fuel over DHT.
OPS does not respond.
20 min later - CAPT sends msg #2.
They call him - and yell at him for 10 min telling him why he should have told them 15 min ago.
The flight overflies ABQ.
They decide to land at PHX.
CAPT informs ATC and pax of divert for fuel.
OPS fails to inform anyone at PHX.
Flight lands - no gate- sent to penalty box.
CAPT shuts down one to have enough fuel to taxi.
CAPT calls ops via cell phone - person he spoke to left shift 10 min ago, no one knows what going on. CAPT informs of divert- they yell at him for 20 min for not having the divert code on the flight at ops.
No one yet has called the fuel truck.
OPS calls PHX station - the guy is on break.
Takes 15 to find the station mgr, who complains he has no gates.
Company policy is fueling only happens at a gate. 35 min have elapsed since landing.
Station gets gate- no one informs Station manager - 10 later everyone srambles since mgr needs to tell ops who needs to tell pilot. 15 later they are moving.
They hit the gate and shut down - no one has told the fueler and now he has 3 other airplanes to fuel. He can fit in this one in 30 min. Pilot tells pax it should only be a short 10 min delay.
Fueler gets there after 30 min - and pilots tells him to load 15000# - he has an order for 10k from OPS. OPS pays. Pilots tells him to start pumping while he calls ops. OPS Tells pilot the dispatch record says he should have 5000# left - pilot tells ops he burns 2000 of that sitting for 45 min with one at idle to cool the cabin and be ready to taxi. Ops revises the fuel order for 13000.
Fuel is pumped - 90 min later they are ready to depart but no one told the flight plan committee about the divert. they need to send it out to a briefer who will dispatch the new flight - 30 min they are ready to go.
One hour after arriving at the gate they are ready to push, 2 hours after landing they are ready to go - they get in a line of 6 airplanes and 2 hr and 30 min after landing they take off - arriving 2 hours late to LAX without a gate - because no one told LAX that the flight had diverted - because - with United Airlines - everything they do, they do for the first time.
How divert works in GA.
Oh, looks like I'm gonna need some fuel to stay safe.
Where am I gonna land?
Oh yeah, St. johns is a quick stop.
Land - taxi - get fuel - 15 min.
While FBO is fuel you are filing the next flight plan - its VFR out - so you decide to make the trip to POC VFR - not ATC delays, and you land 20 min later than projected.
No big deal.
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Found it; North American. Apparently ceased operations last summer. Says they had 767 ERs so not sure why we hopscotched all over the globe.
Attachments
Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
Now that you mention it, I think you are right. When I flew home in 04, it was Global, but the 76s I saw in Bahrain were North American.
The routes were like bus routes...just keep making stops picking up folks along the way.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
You were on the Gimli Glider? I read a book about it years ago.
RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
Probably had a MEL item that restricted the amount of fuel they could carry.
May have been cheaper to load the cargo compartment to the gills and fly with the tanks 1/2 empty. It's not like the passengers had much of a choice.
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That's what I was thinking. I would think we were pretty heavy as well with each soldier carrying a bunch of gear.
Everskyward
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Sitting in the terminal at SFO a couple days ago I heard them announce that an incoming flight was landing in San Jose (about 10 minutes away) for fuel so the outbound flight would be even more delayed than it was already. Heard another PA stating an inbound flight was overhead but "hovering" up there because it couldn't land yet. 
NoHeat
Final Approach
That would be Cape Verde. I've done that. Or Lagos Nigeria. On South Africa Air -- an airline that actually made me wish for United instead.