Fuel Screwup Learned ON THE GROUND!

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SRQWingnut

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WingNut
As a very low-hour GA student, Instructor and I were utilizing non-towered local runways for T&G practice. Decided to land full stop for comfort break, and became aware of flat nose tire as we taxied to parking ramp. Instructor suspected flat tire, and decided to exit the aircraft to inspect, directing me to "shut down the engine." Normal "Engine Shutdown" procedure included selecting fuel "OFF" position. Approximately two-hours later, after having nose wheel tire and tube replacement accomplished, we re-started "warm" engine. Restart engine checklist did not include "Fuel On" -- so you can see where this is going. After discussing non-towered departure procedures and radio frequencies involved in returning to home airport, engine STOPPED. We scanned reasons for engine stopping, and first suspected that fuel boost pump left on after landing caused idling engine to flood. THEN noticing that fuel was "OFF" were grateful that normal non-towered departure did NOT occur. Very likely that, absent extended conversation while engine was idling, we would have been at 400'-500' when engine quit! Very important lesson! I have never again failed to check fuel "ON" before engine start. Note: Aircraft checklist did NOT include fuel "ON" for warm engine restart. It does now!
 
Isn't "fuel selector - on" part of your before-takeoff checklist? I don't use a printed checklist but I certainly check that before departure.
 
The three things that will kill you; Flaps, Fuel, Trim. Double check them every time you take the active runway. That's what my CFII and Southwest captain drilled into my head.
 
I don't know what plane you are flying, but:


In the 172SPs I used to rent, the shutdown checklist says to turn fuel to OFF to prevent crossflow between tanks during fueling or just sitting.

The pre-start checklist in the book does say to verify fuel selector is "Both" before engine start.

Being a rental - I don't think I've ever seen the fuel selector OFF when I preflight.

I've always wondered if I should turn the fuel off, like the checklist says, knowing full well that the next renter will probably assume the selector is already on like it always is.

Edit : D'oh! I had a chance to go back and look at the checklist for that plane (it's been a couple of years). I thought it said "OFF" as part of the after-shutdown, but it says "left or right". I had wondered if I should turn it "Left or Right" instead of Both for the next renter. That actually makes more sense - just in case someone forgets to turn it back on the next time.
 
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I'm pretty much re-iterating what's above, but in the Cessna check-lists I use have you check the fuel switch twice.

Thank you for the valuable reminder (to me) to make sure the check-list is actually followed.
 
Matthew said:
I don't know what plane you are flying, but:


In the 172SPs I used to rent, the shutdown checklist says to turn fuel to OFF to prevent crossflow between tanks during fueling or just sitting.

The pre-start checklist in the book does say to verify fuel selector is "Both" before engine start.

Being a rental - I don't think I've ever seen the fuel selector OFF when I preflight.

I've always wondered if I should turn the fuel off, like the checklist says, knowing full well that the next renter will probably assume the selector is already on like it always is.
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I've never seen it off either on any of the planes I rent (I currently have the checkouts to rent four, two each at two different flying schools). The only time I've seen it off was when my CFI was trying to trick me, aka making sure I followed the checklist.
 
My plane will not start if I don't have the fuel on. I will never get fuel pressure regardless of pump.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I've never seen it off either on any of the planes I rent (I currently have the checkouts to rent four, two each at two different flying schools). The only time I've seen it off was when my CFI was trying to trick me, aka making sure I followed the checklist.
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Look at the checklist in the book (not the flight school/FBO printed and laminated version that's usually on the floor under the back seat.) Some will say to turn off fuel after shutdown, some won't. I've seen it both ways - depends on the model, year, whatever.

But I don't think I've ever seen one that doesn't remind you to check the fuel is on. Maybe there are planes that don't have a selector switch? I don't know.

Either way - it's probably something that the OP will always remember to check from now on!
 
Matthew said:
Look at the checklist in the book (not the flight school/FBO printed and laminated version that's usually on the floor under the back seat.) Some will say to turn off fuel after shutdown, some won't. I've seen it both ways - depends on the model, year, whatever.

But I don't think I've ever seen one that doesn't remind you to check the fuel is on. Maybe there are planes that don't have a selector switch? I don't know.

Either way - it's probably something that the OP will always remember to check from now on!
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Checking that it is ON is in SEVERAL places on those lists in the plane, I want to say at least 3 or more. This is of course to prevent the engine failing after takeoff due to fuel starvation.
 
I tried to start an engine with fuel set to off before. Couldn't keep the thing running more than a few seconds. The pre-takeoff flow I was taught would have caught it at the hold short line... but we were never going to get that far. Good lesson for me on what to do when a preflight gets interrupted.
 
Wondering if the CFI didn't have the conversation because he knew the Fuel selector was "Off" and wanted to use it as a learning tool. :dunno:
 
pericynthion said:
Isn't "fuel selector - on" part of your before-takeoff checklist? I don't use a printed checklist but I certainly check that before departure.
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Amen to that. Forgetting it before a warm start is nothing; forgetting it before takeoff is a big deal. I've mostly flown Cessna 172s, and while written checklists varied, I always followed a "flow" anyway, and it started down on the floor with the fuel selector.
I also don't get how any "restart" checklist could not include confirming fuel ON (and on a tank with fuel in it)... even an in-flight restart checklist.
 
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The three things that will kill you; Flaps, Fuel, Trim. Double check them every time you take the active runway.
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If you will allow it, I must add 'controls free' (and correct). There are probably others, but that vid. of the Buffalo going in (while dad watches) will be with me forever.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
If you will allow it, I must add 'controls free' (and correct). There are probably others, but that vid. of the Buffalo going in (while dad watches) will be with me forever.
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Yep....I had a colleague crash right off the end of his own grass strip with a Sheetrock screw securing the flight controls....
 
I'm afraid to turn the fuel valve off in the 150 I rent/train on because it feels so stiff, afraid it will brake in the off position.
 
cavmedic said:
I'm afraid to turn the fuel valve off in the 150 I rent/train on because it feels so stiff, afraid it will brake in the off position.
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I'm not "afraid" but mine (150) is this hard too. In fact, I don't think I can physically turn it off and I've been meaning to ask the mechanic about that.
 
cavmedic said:
I'm afraid to turn the fuel valve off in the 150 I rent/train on because it feels so stiff, afraid it will brake in the off position.
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It (your plane?) will never brake by using the fuel valve control. Foot controls will be necessary.
 
In my Cardinal, fuel to right tank is the standard move for level ground parking shutdown.

fuel "Both" is verified in pre-engine start flow.
fuel "Both" is verified in run-up flow.

Flaps, fuel, trim verified in pre-takeoff flow.
 
TulsaWeather said:
In my Cardinal, fuel to right tank is the standard move for level ground parking shutdown.
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Ahh - I had a chance to go back to the 172SP checklist. It does say "left or right" after shutdown, not OFF like I thought. It's been about 2 yrs since I've flown it, and I forgot.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, that's not good, you should be able to quickly flip it off in case of fire.
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there are quite a few people that I've flipped off quickly in the last couple of days.

some of them deserved it.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, that's not good, you should be able to quickly flip it off in case of fire.
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Thank goodness this thread reminded me to tell them. It is not even on my checklist, the only reason I know is my old checklist (for the 152) says "Fuel - cycle off then on" or at least I thought ...... maybe not but it made me want to "try everything in the plane". I'm just one of those pilots, messing with everything. Like trim - set for takeoff - not good enough for me. I go way above and below the takeoff marker on the trim to be sure it is moving free and feeling "normal" before I leave the runup area since it is often left on "takeoff" and you would never know otherwise.
 
cavmedic said:
I'm afraid to turn the fuel valve off in the 150 I rent/train on because it feels so stiff, afraid it will brake in the off position.
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If it 'breaks' in the off position it should do it on preflight. Either that or it should be free to exercise. If you believe what you said you have been violating the law every time you certified that plane airworthy for flight.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Thank goodness this thread reminded me to tell them. It is not even on my checklist, the only reason I know is my old checklist (for the 152) says "Fuel - cycle off then on" or at least I thought ...... maybe not but it made me want to "try everything in the plane". I'm just one of those pilots, messing with everything. Like trim - set for takeoff - not good enough for me. I go way above and below the takeoff marker on the trim to be sure it is moving free and feeling "normal" before I leave the runup area since it is often left on "takeoff" and you would never know otherwise.
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I always ran my trim up and down in the rental 172s and looked through the back window to make sure the tab traveled the correct direction. They can be rigged backward, or so I'm told.
 
TulsaWeather said:
I always ran my trim up and down in the rental 172s and looked through the back window to make sure the tab traveled the correct direction. They can be rigged backward, or so I'm told.
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So I'm not the only one. Cool. I also climb under the plane and do a few other crazy things but why not. I'm in no hurry and don't fly that much plus it is a rental.....
 
Right only when I park the bird. Checklists call for "fuel both" in at least 3 places.

Freaky. Go buy a lottery ticket.
 
Lawreston said:
It (your plane?) will never brake by using the fuel valve control. Foot controls will be necessary.
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Not my plane, the rental I use for my training. It's so stiff and hard to turn, feels like it wants to break off when turning between positions.

Not sure what you mean... Meaning it will never brake while turning ???




Wait a minute...............................................................:mad2:
 
Henning said:
If it 'breaks' in the off position it should do it on preflight. Either that or it should be free to exercise. If you believe what you said you have been violating the law every time you certified that plane airworthy for flight.
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Was actually being sarcastic , BUT it definitely is not going to move on its own , but was told to leave in the on position when parking....
 
I was talking to the airport manager when a car pulls up next to a 182. While we were talking, both of us would glance over at these 2 guys unloading rifles and handguns out of the truck of the car and putting them into the 182. When they were done loading their stuff in the plane, they got in the aircraft and started it up and taxied out to the runway. While they were taxing out I asked the airport manager, "did you see them preflight" the manager said no. By this time they were pulling onto the runway and gave it full power, at about 40 knots ground speed the engine quit. As the dead aircraft rolled down the runway it started again and continued the take-off roll. I looked at the manager and said, what just happened? He said they had the fuel off. How do you know this? Because they've done it before!:yikes:
 
cavmedic said:
Was actually being sarcastic , BUT it definitely is not going to move on its own , but was told to leave in the on position when parking....
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If you won't exercise that valve on preflight, the plane can't be considered airworthy, serious as that. You don't move the valve, you shouldn't be flying the plane.
 
Henning said:
My plane will not start if I don't have the fuel on. I will never get fuel pressure regardless of pump.
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And mine could get me into the air if there are no delays on taxi. As a new owner/mechanic I tried it once, turned the fuel off, started the plane and taxied to the runway.

At the run up area I set full power and waited.

Kept running for a while:hairraise: so long infact I immediately went back to the hangar and checked the shut off. It worked fine, just a decent amount of fuel in the strainer and carb.

I have sence gotten used to it, MX checklists often ask for a function check of the fuel shut off during run up.
Fuel off
Wait.....



Wait.....


Wait....
 
My pre-takeoff (after runup) in the Chief (as simple a bird as one can fly) is CFIT:

  • Controls
  • Fuel
  • Instruments
  • Trim
The fuel switch has been left to OFF in more than one Aeronca that has landed out or been crumpled 30 seconds after leaving the ground. There's enough fuel in the system from the valve to the car to run about 5 minutes -- as long as it takes to taxi and takeoff.
 
TulsaWeather said:
I always ran my trim up and down in the rental 172s and looked through the back window to make sure the tab traveled the correct direction. They can be rigged backward, or so I'm told.
Click to expand...

I've had partial flaps stick on one wing on a rental 172 once, giving a heavy wing. On my own 172 now I always hit full flaps as I start my taxi, check them to make sure they are full down at some point during the taxi and then retract them, and visually check them for fully retracted as I start my mag check. If they are going to hang up on me or quit working, I'd rather know about it on the taxiway.
 
airguy said:
I've had partial flaps stick on one wing on a rental 172 once, giving a heavy wing. On my own 172 now I always hit full flaps as I start my taxi, check them to make sure they are full down at some point during the taxi and then retract them, and visually check them for fully retracted as I start my mag check. If they are going to hang up on me or quit working, I'd rather know about it on the taxiway.
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Flaps down are the first part of my pre-flight, as soon as I walk up to the plane (Master On, Flaps Full Down, Check fuel gauge, master off). I put them back up at the runup.
 
Henning said:
My plane will not start if I don't have the fuel on. I will never get fuel pressure regardless of pump.
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Doesn't matter. The OP isn't flying YOUR plane, his did start with the valve off. The point of the original post is to remind us to use our check list and make sure the check list covers fuel valve for both hot-start as well as cold-start.

Also a good habit to get into since you don't always fly your own plane.
 
I'm fairly concious of the fuel selector regardless of the plane I'm flying, as I fly mostly Pipers. For that matter, deciding which tank to use first is part of the preflight check exercise.

I actually did start up a 172 once with the fuel selector in the "off" position. In ran for a few seconds then stopped. I thought it was set to "both" but looking closer the last person turned it "off."
 
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