frustrated

If you have any doubt, try the "flare" as a power off stall at altitude -- set it up as a normal descent, power off with full flap and at minimum approach speed, configured for go-around (cowl flaps open, gear down, prop forward -- but leave the mixture lean because you're at altitude). If you can't arrest the descent prior to the stall, you have a problem.

I've had a few "thumpy" landings in an Archer like you describe in the Arrow. It appears to be a PA28 thing, not a complex thing.

That was a pretty low approach angle in the video -- you must have had significant power in that. 182's glide like really expensive bricks with the prop fine.
 
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MAKG1 said:
If you have any doubt, try the "flare" as a power off stall at altitude -- set it up as a normal descent, power off with full flap and at minimum approach speed, configured for go-around (cowl flaps open, gear down, prop forward -- but leave the mixture lean because you're at altitude). If you can't arrest the descent prior to the stall, you have a problem.

I've had a few "thumpy" landings in an Archer like you describe in the Arrow. It appears to be a PA28 thing, not a complex thing.

That was a pretty low approach angle in the video -- you must have had significant power in that. 182's glide like really expensive bricks with the prop fine.
Click to expand...

I was low because I was on a practice instrument approach to another runway with circle to land.
 
dreaming89 said:
thank you everyone for offering suggestions. From what I've read, I'm probably rushing the whole process and need to keep it off the ground for a little longer. I'll apply this strategy in my next lesson. I never really realized that my flare needs to be at the same pitch attitude as in slow flight. I guess that's kinda stupid for me to realize this so far into my training. So that means that, I need to bleed off 20-30 knots of speed from the time I cross the threshold to the time I touchdown? Does anyone take just a quick glance at the airspeed indicator while they are doing the flare? I stop looking at the airspeed indicator once I cross the threshold.
Click to expand...

As I have mentioned many times in the past, my students had to fly at least one pattern with the airspeed indicator covered. Does that answer your question?

Bob Gardner
 
I glad to hear other students have had the exact same problem I had.:mad2:

Between my first and second solo I took 10 more lessons (another 14.5hrs), for different reason, I could have been winds, weather etc, but my instructor always told me " if the weather permits we will do more solo, if not we must always be learning and improving every lesson" .

I guess I am the odd one in the bunch, I was in no hurry to solo, and in hurry to do it again. The way I looked at it is, that most of the time i'm going to fly I will have someone with me, may as well be a CFI with 8000 hrs who's company I enjoy.

Before every solo, we do a quick practice to make sure everything was clicking, didn't matter if it was a local solo or the cross country's.

It never occurred to me to just show up at the airport and take myself flying. What was I going to teach myself ??

I too had problems with flare/pitch/balloon.
The pitch/site angle was cured when I started practicing soft field take offs. Goosing the throttle on the ground gets the tail down and nose wheel off, while hardly moving, this is the view you are looking for.

I'm just about to go for my check ride and I'm starting to feel comfortable with it. Filming my lessons and watching how I move the controls on final helped me realize what everyone here said about being slow and smooth.

This landing was just before he sent me off on the long cross country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgCs-Yh8mY

This one is solo after I finally figured out the cross wind thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SluxmHLckYU

keep at it you will get it
 
ferrari-tech said:
I glad to hear other students have had the exact same problem I had.:mad2:

Between my first and second solo I took 10 more lessons (another 14.5hrs), for different reason, I could have been winds, weather etc, but my instructor always told me " if the weather permits we will do more solo, if not we must always be learning and improving every lesson" .

I guess I am the odd one in the bunch, I was in no hurry to solo, and in hurry to do it again. The way I looked at it is, that most of the time i'm going to fly I will have someone with me, may as well be a CFI with 8000 hrs who's company I enjoy.

Before every solo, we do a quick practice to make sure everything was clicking, didn't matter if it was a local solo or the cross country's.

It never occurred to me to just show up at the airport and take myself flying. What was I going to teach myself ??

I too had problems with flare/pitch/balloon.
The pitch/site angle was cured when I started practicing soft field take offs. Goosing the throttle on the ground gets the tail down and nose wheel off, while hardly moving, this is the view you are looking for.

I'm just about to go for my check ride and I'm starting to feel comfortable with it. Filming my lessons and watching how I move the controls on final helped me realize what everyone here said about being slow and smooth.

This landing was just before he sent me off on the long cross country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgCs-Yh8mY

This one is solo after I finally figured out the cross wind thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SluxmHLckYU

keep at it you will get it
Click to expand...

Thanks! I was beginning to think I was the only one going through this. What do you mean by goosing the throttle? It's funny because my instructor told me last lesson that he wanted to do soft field and short field takeoffs/landings with me. I said to him, if I can't even get the normal landings right anymore, what makes you think I'm going to do those landings right? So this is all funny because you just said that the soft fields actually helped you with the pitch/site angle.

Oh, about the cross-wind landing-- My instructor demonstrated what that is supposed to look like. I gotta say I don't really feel good about landing on an angle on one wheel. Another instructor once told me you could correct before you go into ground effect, and land with the wings level. Perhaps I misunderstood that. In the video you have it looks like you have ailerons neutral on touchdown. Am I correct?
 
dreaming89 said:
Thanks! I was beginning to think I was the only one going through this. What do you mean by goosing the throttle? It's funny because my instructor told me last lesson that he wanted to do soft field and short field takeoffs/landings with me. I said to him, if I can't even get the normal landings right anymore, what makes you think I'm going to do those landings right? So this is all funny because you just said that the soft fields actually helped you with the pitch/site angle.

Oh, about the cross-wind landing-- My instructor demonstrated what that is supposed to look like. I gotta say I don't really feel good about landing on an angle on one wheel. Another instructor once told me you could correct before you go into ground effect, and land with the wings level. Perhaps I misunderstood that. In the video you have it looks like you have ailerons neutral on touchdown. Am I correct?
Click to expand...

The first video was no cross wind. The second one was my first "good" solo cross wind landing. Video doesn't really show it but it was actually one wheel, which is why you hear me say "holy cow" or something.
Yes you are right the control inputs have to be smooth, that was one of my problems, over controlling everything close to the ground.
Everyone pilot that I talked to about my crosswind problems (I would drift) told me that it would come and once I "had that site picture" I would forget what I was worrying about.

Goosing the throttle on the ground gets a load of prop wash over the tail so you can get the nose right up, even to the point of a tail strike, once you are balanced on the main gear with the nose wheel a foot off the tarmac, that is the look you need when you touch down.

Keep at it, you will get it.
 
bbchien said:
Every time you solo, you fly on HIS license. Get that into your brain. This is NOT about being cut loose to practice....not yet.

As a CFI, I solo pilots as early as is safe so that they start thinking about things as if PIC.

But with an attitude like yours- It'd be a long time before you soloed again.

...
Click to expand...


Amen. Few things frustrate me as much as a student indignant about a CFI not being forthcoming with an endorsement or recommendation. These things are earned, not deserved. If you aren't happy with that, find an instructor with lower standards.
 
My instructor places limitations on me like any other would.

I can't go farther than 20nm from the airport, I have time of day and wind limitations. I've specifically been told that power off stalls are ok, but power on, not yet. No simulated engine outs by myself. Generally I have the choice of a practice area or the pattern. Even then, I have picked the northwest practice area and have been told that today, you need to stay in the southeast practice area. And I will always get a good explanation from him why he is placing the restrictions on me.

Keep in mind the instructor isn't "out to get you" or making excuses. He wants to see you succeed, but he wants you to be safe above all. It's his license and BOTH your butts if something bad happens.
 
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