Frustrated with instrument training

[alfadog]

I must admit that I find instrument training frustrating. I flew last Sat with my CFII for the first time in months and, at one point, I briefly considered landing the airplane and just saying "F*ck it". Obviously, I pushed that thought out of my head and continued. Not the first time I felt that way.

What I find frustrating is not the hood work or flying the approaches. I am pretty good at that stuff and my CFII acknowledged that I am. What frustrates me is getting the checklists done and the approach briefed and set up in a manner that I think will satisfy a DPE and all the other "paperwork". I am pretty much done and just need to sort this out.

It is hot and humid, my glasses are blurry with sweat, I have trouble making out the small print on the plate even with progressive bifocals, I am left handed and can't seem to find some rational way to write things down, I forget to do the checklists. Etc, etc.

Just venting mainly but open to any suggestions.

 

[Jeanie]

Can you print the approach plates put at 150% size to help with the small print? I'm left handed too and it's hard... Can you write while steering with your feet for the few secs that it might take?

 

[alfadog]

Can you print the approach plates put at 150% size to help with the small print? I'm left handed too and it's hard... Can you write while steering with your feet for the few secs that it might take?

Thanks.

Yes, my CFII wants me to take my hands off the yoke more and steer with my feet while doing things with my hand(s) because I have a bit of a heavy hand and sometimes introduce a bank if I am not attentive. As far as the vision, it is a bit of a PITA but I can make the plate out well enough. If that were the only thing it would not be a problem but it is late to brief, not sure of how I should brief, and now my glasses are blurry. Oy. I also use a Francis Hood which severely blocks vision and may be part of the issue with reading the plate.

Obviously, it comes down to practice. I am putting together a practice pattern to just get a routine on the checklists and brief.

 

[j1b3h0]

Strength comes only from struggle, Alfa. Only with great effort does anything challenging become, well, if not easy, at least doable. Sounds to me like you've caught on to an essential truth: With the proper focus, instrument approaches aren't too hard. But, if you somehow get distracted, the flying gets all wobbley. Also, being able to apply that focus requires a good bit of organization (especially single-pilot)...So, sit at your kitchen table, with all your charts, approach plates, clipboards and whathaveyou, and maybe the airplane checklists and try to create a method having the proper charts available (folded if necessary) when needed, timing when to consult them - and when to concentrate on the flying exclusively. Go over the whole flight, takeoff to touchdown, develop a personal cadence, if you will. Question: If you knew the entire route and the instrument approaches by heart, would the task be any easier? If the answer is yes, then spend some more time really learning the route, VOR freqs and radials, likely places you might have to hold, where to expect frequency changes. There is a reason your instrument instructor assigns the approaches you fly in a certain order, learn why. Also, it's mandatory that there's not a minute of the flight that you don't know exactly where the airplane is on a chart or plate.

 

[TMetzinger]

The IR is 90% task-juggling and staying well ahead of the airplane. Your frustration is normal, and it WILL get better, I promise.

 

[ISPYFROMABOVE]

I had the same frustration during my instrument training. It was the checklists and briefing the approaches while taking instruction... it's tough. I bought one of the cheap plastic flexible clips to hold onto my plates. I then picked a spot to clamp it to the airplane where it was visible without being in my hand and where I didn't have to look down (Looking down at my plate caused me to induce bank) and also not covering the instruments. In the Piper Seminole I was flying, the handheld microphone holder is located on the left side of the cockpit wall, just underneath the window, so from where I was the plate ended up being in my line of sight to the left of the instrument 6 pack. I took out the plates I needed, got them in order and then when an approach was completed, i tore it off and the next one was ready.

My next problem was getting lost within the checklist. I would be doing the items, then get a call or look away and when I got back to the checklist i couldn't remember where I left off. So occasionally i skipped something or re did it, big waste of time and caused me to get behind. Not good for IFR. I made an approach checklist for IFR conditions that i wedged between my leg and my kneeboard. It was laminated so that it slid easily between my leg and the board, (plus it didn't get soggy from sweat.) I would line up the first item on the checklist so it was the only item visible above the front of the kneeboard. . Once I completed that item, I slid the checklist up just enough to see the next item and so on. This helped me tremendously. I always added "checklist complete" as the last item on the list so I knew there weren't anymore items.

I chair flew for about 3 hours just going through the approaches from the IAP all the way through the missed, building muscle memory... plate, checklist, briefing, checklist, gps, checklist, nav radio, checklist, tune & id, checklist, etc.


Affraid I don't have a suggestion for being left handed..... um.... stop being left handed...

 

[Alexb2000]

Thanks.

Yes, my CFII wants me to take my hands off the yoke more and steer with my feet while doing things with my hand(s) because I have a bit of a heavy hand and sometimes introduce a bank if I am not attentive. As far as the vision, it is a bit of a PITA but I can make the plate out well enough. If that were the only thing it would not be a problem but it is late to brief, not sure of how I should brief, and now my glasses are blurry. Oy. I also use a Francis Hood which severely blocks vision and may be part of the issue with reading the plate.

Obviously, it comes down to practice. I am putting together a practice pattern to just get a routine on the checklists and brief.

One of the things I do is practice ways to avoid writing things down, so I can spend more time flying.

For example, I used to write down everything, now I only write down the full clearance prior to departure and the ATIS inbound.

On ATC instructions, I try to read it back in a way that helps me remember. For example, "99AD contact approach on one-one-niner point two-five". I'll say, "19 25 99AD". Not standard phraseology I know, but for some reason it makes it easy for me to remember it that way. On an approach clearance they might say, "99AD descend and maintain 2000, fly heading 190 until established, cleared ILS one-five approach". I'll say, "2000 one nine zero, cleared ILS one five 99AD". Even a more complex clearance like, "99AD descent and maintain 5,000 cross DEBB at 3,000, depart DEBB at 190 to intercept, cleared for the ILS 17 Right. My response, "5,000 DEBB at 3, depart 190, cleared ILS 17R, 99AD". The point is abbreviating the read back vs. parroting it word for word is a great memory tool IMO.

On the briefing keep it simple: Verify right airport and approach, ILS frequency, course, altimeter.

Then I just say the step downs, FERRA at 2.5, JERIT at 2, glideslope.

I draw the missed because I am visual, so climbing left turn to 250, left turn arrow <250>, with an up arrow 3,000. Direct TRISS and hold. So direct to symbol TRISS racetrack drawing. Make sure I have TRISS identified (radio or GPS), then just keep the little drawing on the knee board. Below the missed drawing the decision height in big bold letters.

I say out loud to myself the next thing I am looking for on the approach. For example 2 miles from FERRA "descend 2000 after FERRA". Then 1 mile from JERRIT "looking for glideslope". On the glideslope, "Looking for 800 (decision height)".

All the above are just general examples not meant to be a cookbook for IFR, but only to suggest that getting other parts of your brain involved in the process of flying (speaking, drawing, truncating, etc.) helps you remember and keeps you ahead of the airplane. I suspect that part of the problem is not only writing everything down, but also having to go back and verify information several times. I've been there, you'll find your groove, and it will be as easy as coming home.

Now, flame suit on, prepared to have every little thing I said micro-analysed, every FAR/AIM referenced, some lecture on standard phraseology, and told I'm a crappy pilot by at least a few people....Ready.

 

[DouglasBader]

You can simplify your task with the checklists by changing the checklist. Use bigger print, and make separate pages for each phase of the checklist. A kneeboard will keep it in place, and if you have rings on the side of the knee board, you can put the checklist in plastic page protectors and simply flip the finished pages out of the way. That way, you're only looking at the phase of flight the thou need at the time, without having to search for anything.

On the page that has the landing checklist, you might want to put a missed approach checklist on the same page so your workload is diminished at a time when you could be quite busy.

Marrying actions to each other also reduces workload; lowering the landing gear and turning on the landing lights, for example. Or final flap setting at the same time you lower the gear, that sort of thing. It reduces the amount of things you're trying to juggle. Same for the missed approach; setting go-around power and then moving flaps to the go-around setting can be lumped together, making one item of two.

The approach charts can be printed large, and it's a good idea to make a habit of highlighting the relevant data on the chart. The inbound course, the field elevation and minimum approach altitude, as well as the basics of the missed approach are good to highlight.

If you highlight these things, they're easy to pick out with a quick glance, rather than searching for the information.

I always put a sticky note on the instrument panel in front of me. I include the aircraft or flight call sign, the minimum safe altitude, transition altitude (it's often much lower internationally than it is in the USA), the missed approach altitude, the minimum approach altitude, and the field elevation. It's in front of me so I don't have to go looking for it.

Your instructor probably hasn't broached the concept of the approach briefing, as you're training to do the work single-pilot. I always conduct an approach briefing, whether I have others in the cockpit, I'm in a crew environment, or alone. A verbal analysis of the procedure and a review of what one is going to do and expects is always a good idea.

At a minimum, I'll note the procedure to make sure I'm looking at and considering the proper procedure (you might be surprised to find how easy is is to have the wrong chart up), the frequency, inbound course, altitudes (initial, step-down, glideslope intercept or FAF altitude, minimums, field elevation, height above touchdown, missed approach altitude, and MSA), what lighting and view I expect to see when I break out (PAPI on the left, etc), and the missed approach procedure, to include how I intend to enter the hold after I go missed.

With this having been reviewed, I'm ready to accept my clearance and to go fly. As part of that review, I verify I've got everything set as I brief. If my airspeed indicator has "bugs" that mark the speeds, I make sure those are set. My radios should be set for the procedure, as should my instruments (OBS, RMI/ADF, etc), my procedures loaded if FMS or other nav system is used, any altitude reminders, bugs or alerters set, and so on.

With that done, it's all laid out in front of me. I only need to look at my stick-um note for a quick reminder, and it's right there on the panel in my scan. If I do need to look at the approach chart, it's highlighted and easy to spot without having to search. My checklist is ready, in large print, highlighted as necessary for the "killer" items, and arranged to make it easy to use without having to do anything extra.

This is CRM; arranging one's resources in advance to make the job easier and more streamlined.

You can get stickum arrows (the "sign here" kind) at an office supply place to mark your altitudes next to the altimeter, if your altimeter doesn't have bugs. I've seen these used in anything ranging from single engine tailwheel airplanes to the 747, and it works just fine.

When jumping from an airplane, I review my procedures before I go out the door. When flying an instrument approach, I review my procedures before I begin, too. If your'e doing a short flight, or plan on taking off and going right into approaches, you can brief the approach before you ever leave the ground and get it set up. It's a good idea to set up the approach to return from your departure point in any case, so you don't have to begin looking for things in an emergency. It also makes sure you have everything you need. Again, CRM.

In a multi engine airplane, one briefs what one will do on the takeoff, before starting engines. That is, before one ever starts the engines, the takeoff and departure should be briefed. Procedures to be done in the event of an engine failure, the go/no-go decision and the criteria for them should be outlined. The same can be said of a single engine instrument flight; know what you intend to do before you go fly. If you have a departure to fly, then brief it; know that at the 2.0 DME fix you'll make a left turn heading 210 degrees, and climb to 3000'. Know what you'll do if you have some kind of emergency. Will you come back here to land, will you go elsewhere? Do you need a takeoff alternate?

Do as much work as you can in advance, to leave you as little work as possible at the time of the procedure. Single-pilot IFR is perhaps the most demanding flying you can do, and certainly has the busiest work load. I've done a lot of other kinds of flying, including a lot of low-level work with obstacles and hazards, and none has nearly the workload or cockpit demand that single pilot IFR has.

Another note: actual IMC flying is not the same as flying with a hood. While I wouldn't advocate hands-off to overcome a heavy hand on the yoke, I do advocate being as prepared as possible, because you may be surprised on your first few flights in actual IMC as to what a little fixation or distraction can do for you. It's not at all the same as being under the hood with the instructor nearby.

I'd always suggest that your first flight or two (or three) doing actual IMC work be with an experienced hand next to you; an instructor is a good choice. It's money well spent, and a good thing to have.

 

[murphey]

Wait until it cools off. My instrument training goes in sync with the weather. I do no training in the summer but I do study ground and weather. Of course it takes time to get back into the flight training, but I'm in no hurry and don't like to fight the density altitude and heat. Today in Denver we're about to set a new record in the 3 digits.

This is why I left Houston & Phoenix, to get out of this heat. I think I brought it with me.

 

[DouglasBader]

Most flying you'll end up doing in the clouds isn't going to be in smooth conditions. Days with convective activity off the desert floor more closely approximate real-world conditions; it gives you a more realistic flight.

 

[Marc CYBW]

Ahh the many, many days i almost quit. I remember them well.

A few small things to add to the various good ideas already posted.

I learned on a steam gauge 182 and gave up on "hoods" and at my instructor's suggestion, rigged up some bubble warp (a pice about 1.5 ' square) that hung from the sun visor so blocked my view but kept visibility for the instructor. It was a huge step forward. More like flying through cloud than the various foggle devices and I could see all the controls and avionics without moving my head. BIG improvement!

I set up a bracket at eye level "just" to the left of the panel and kept the plates there. And I highlighted the critical information with a pink highighter. Fixes and minimums and overshoot. Still use that system.

I added the approach/landing critical checklist to my checklist. See the attached version for my DA40. So no more trying to remember AMORTAG, and all its sub sections and landing power settings.

Hang in there. You'll be oh so satisfied when you're done.

 

[Garthur]

Man, do I remember the instrument taining days. Possibly the toughess thing I've ever did. Istructor talking in my hear, ATC squacking orders and then responding to ATC, while flying the plane, reading the approach plates, fiquiring wind drift and correction, and then fiquiring holding pattern entry, writing everything down. To top it off, all my training was at night after working 10 hours.

Those were the days. Thank God I don't have to do it anymore.

If it makes any instrument students feel better, now that I have several hundred actual hours under my belt, IFR flying has become fairly easy.

 

[denverpilot]

I must admit that I find instrument training frustrating. I flew last Sat with my CFII for the first time in months and, at one point, I briefly considered landing the airplane and just saying "F*ck it". Obviously, I pushed that thought out of my head and continued. Not the first time I felt that way.

What I find frustrating is not the hood work or flying the approaches. I am pretty good at that stuff and my CFII acknowledged that I am. What frustrates me is getting the checklists done and the approach briefed and set up in a manner that I think will satisfy a DPE and all the other "paperwork". I am pretty much done and just need to sort this out.

It is hot and humid, my glasses are blurry with sweat, I have trouble making out the small print on the plate even with progressive bifocals, I am left handed and can't seem to find some rational way to write things down, I forget to do the checklists. Etc, etc.

Just venting mainly but open to any suggestions.

Hehe... this sounds familiar. (And Jesse is laughing now...)

There's a plateau where you're just BARELY keeping up. But you THINK you're doing fine because the approaches are fine. You won't like hearing this, but you need to go just a little bit FASTER.

The reality is... VFR you can handle the checklist, and all that other stuff... IFR you cant. So... you're NOT going quite fast enough yet.

Stuff like the checklist falling on the floor or the pencil not where you thought you put it, or the notepad being on the wrong leg... will completely blow everything. Try it. Toss the pencil on the floor. See if you can keep it all together.

You'll feel like a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.

To go that last 10-20% faster, you have to tell yourself to keep moving to the next thing.

But here's the "weird" part... you also need to RELAX. Tense won't help it smooth out and flow faster.

Scan, correct trends, look for pencil, scan, pick up pencil, correct trends, scan, write down item, scan, correct, scan... talk to yourself, and don't let the words or the actions stop.

Keep moving, no stopping, keep going...

It's annoying to realize you're not there yet when the approaches start to come together, but you need about 20% overhead for the unexpected. You fill in that 20% with things like glances at the engine instruments, and things that aren't critical to the approach when the unexpected DOESN'T happen... the pace doesn't slow, you just fill the time with things that otherwise aren't getting done.

I know... It's REALLY annoying finding out that you can get de-railed that easily at that point because you think "I've got this" and then the pencil falls on the floor... or the instructor says, "So, were you planning on starting your timer?"

Awww... $#()*Y&@#(% !!!

There's a rhythm to it that's about 20% faster than you think it is, right now. You'll get there.

Same plateau, same pizzzed off feeling... you're close... practice in your car... haha... seriously... road, speedometer, road, tach, road, radio (yeah, I know... who cares about the radio... it's about getting a scan moving)...

Try to bump the scan and response speed up about 20%... think metronome in your head if you have a musical background... it clicks, you have to move on... come back if you know something's still trending wrong... click, click, click...

It'll happen for ya. I promise.

Frustrating as hell, isn't it?

 

[GCA319]

Take your time. You can slow the plane down and ask ATC for delay vectors in the real world (most DE's will simulate delay vectors too).

 

[markb5900]

As others have stated. You have hit a plateau. Probably did something similar on your PP. Got to a point and said, I just can't do this, the drudged through it and got it.
We have all been there.
CRM is what it is all about. Doing this instead of that at THIS moment. Remembering to Fly the Plane first is one thing that helped me.
You can always go around and do the approach again if you aren't ready!!
Have you been taught CRAFT for doing the clearance or ABC for the approach?
C Clearance
R Route
A Altitude
F Frequency
T Transponder code

A Atis
B Brief the plate
C Checklist
Do ABC BEFORE you reach the FAF, so that is DONE, now you just need to fly the approach, Set power, and follow the needles.
Hope that helps some.

 

[jesse]

I always tell students one of the most important things in instrument flying is to know:

1.) What you're doing next
2.) When will you do #1

For example.. I know I need to descend to 1700 when this flag goes from TO/FROM.
I need to turn to heading XXX when crossing this radial
Whatever it may be. If you don't know what you're doing next and when you need to concentrate on that RIGHT NOW.

Once you know what you're doing next and when you need to do it -- you can dedicate brain CPU towards thinking further ahead. This is important too..you need to be ahead.

My typical approach briefing starts with the approach airport, the approach name, the frequency, the final approach course, how I am getting onto the approach, everything I am doing on the approach and when, what signifies the missed approach, what the missed approach is, and what the entry into the hold will be.

Example:
"Flying the Lincoln VOR 17 approach, 116.1, final approach course 177, starting at the LNK VOR. Upon reaching the VOR, intercept 005 outbound, if cleared for approach descend to 3100, remain within 10 miles, procedure turn as depicted left turn to 320 then right turn to 140. Established inbound on 185 radial down to 2400 ft, cross lnk vor then intercept 177 outbound, descend to minimum of 1720, missed approach two minutes thirty two seconds, missed straight ahead 2800, climbing left turn to 3000 direct LNK VOR, and hold, entry is teardrop"

"Flying the ILS 36 at Lincoln vectors to final, 109.9, final approach course 354, controller is going to vector me outside the FAF which is POTTS. If cleared for the approach and localizer intercepted then descend to 2800, at POTTS glideslope intercept down to 1375, missed approach 1375 which will take about three minutes 12 seconds, missed is climb straight ahead 1700, climbing right turn 3000 direct LNK vor and hold. hold entry is parallel"

 

[AggieMike88]

I learned on a steam gauge 182 and gave up on "hoods" and at my instructor's suggestion, rigged up some bubble warp (a pice about 1.5 ' square) that hung from the sun visor so blocked my view but kept visibility for the instructor. It was a huge step forward. More like flying through cloud than the various foggle devices and I could see all the controls and avionics without moving my head. BIG improvement!

Not even Adam S. or Jamie H. would think of that use for Bubble Wrap! I like that idea.

"Bubble Warp"... ummm... you're instructor would have the last name Crusher, first initial W would he?

 

[bbchien]

I had a recent instrument student who got wrapped around the axle trying to do the next tasks and the tasks after those, all now.

It boiled down to
(1) get efficient briefing the chart during descent phase or just after prior climbout.
(2) Ten miles (five minutes) from the IAF:
Mag compass check
Station ident
Dial all the frequencies in the "flop" section
(3) Five miles (three minutes) from the IAF the tasks are:.....
GPS to VLOC (don't wait for the box to do it, just do it and be done)
Setup the missed in your head.
Remind onself of the DH (or MAP)
Figure out the wind correction.

Don't bother to do anything else. These are the essentials.

 

[EppyGA]

Scan, correct trends, look for pencil, scan, pick up pencil, correct trends, scan, write down item, scan, correct, scan... talk to yourself, and don't let the words or the actions stop.

What happened to pull second or third pencil from pocket?

 

[denverpilot]

What happened to pull second or third pencil from pocket?

It was just a scenario. Pretend the last remaining pencil on the planet is the one you dropped.

 

[alfadog]

Thanks for all the good advice! I will need to spend a bit of time digesting it.

One thing is this frustration is mainly an issue when I am practicing for the checkride and time is very congested; i.e I am doing two or three approaches back-to-back and have to get the briefing, checklists, maybe ATIS, listen to ATC, interact with my CFII, times, etc., all in a relatively few minutes rather than the more reasonable pace when on a cross-country.

So what I have to practice is:

• Downwind: Cruise speed; ATIS as needed and brief the approach.
• Headings to intercept: Descent checklist.
• Established before FAF: Slow to approach speed: drop gear if retract., start prelanding checklist.
• GS intercept: Reduce power, prelanding checklist.
• FAF: Start timer if applicable.

I think I need to table-fly it with a stopwatch then practice it around a fix, with a safety pilot.

 

[jesse]

Thanks for all the good advice! I will need to spend a bit of time digesting it.

One thing is this frustration is mainly an issue when I am practicing for the checkride and time is very congested; i.e I am doing two or three approaches back-to-back and have to get the briefing, checklists, maybe ATIS, listen to ATC, interact with my CFII, times, etc., all in a relatively few minutes rather than the more reasonable pace when on a cross-country.

So what I have to practice is:

• Downwind: Cruise speed; ATIS as needed and brief the approach.
• Headings to intercept: Descent checklist.
• Established before FAF: Slow to approach speed: drop gear if retract., start prelanding checklist.
• GS intercept: Reduce power, prelanding checklist.
• FAF: Start timer if applicable.

I think I need to table-fly it with a stopwatch then practice it around a fix, with a safety pilot.

If you do not know what you need to do next, and exactly when, then stop everything until you've figured that out. Once that is figured out you have time to do everything else while knowing the airplane is headed in the correct direction at the correct altitude which is the most important thing.

 

[Alexb2000]

Thanks for all the good advice! I will need to spend a bit of time digesting it.

One thing is this frustration is mainly an issue when I am practicing for the checkride and time is very congested; i.e I am doing two or three approaches back-to-back and have to get the briefing, checklists, maybe ATIS, listen to ATC, interact with my CFII, times, etc., all in a relatively few minutes rather than the more reasonable pace when on a cross-country.

So what I have to practice is:

• Downwind: Cruise speed; ATIS as needed and brief the approach.
• Headings to intercept: Descent checklist.
• Established before FAF: Slow to approach speed: drop gear if retract., start prelanding checklist.
• GS intercept: Reduce power, prelanding checklist.
• FAF: Start timer if applicable.

I think I need to table-fly it with a stopwatch then practice it around a fix, with a safety pilot.

What kind of aircraft are you flying, avionics?

 

[murphey]

Most flying you'll end up doing in the clouds isn't going to be in smooth conditions. Days with convective activity off the desert floor more closely approximate real-world conditions; it gives you a more realistic flight.

Doug you have no idea what type of conditions I'll be flying in. As for realism, learning the fundamentalsm comes first, then applying them to different conditions.

If you want to come fly with me in the desert heat (I grew up in Phoenix) you're more than welcome. I've got plenty of barf bags - I get nauseous and on the edge of heat stroke when I fly in those conditions.

 

[bbchien]

Thanks for all the good advice! I will need to spend a bit of time digesting it.

One thing is this frustration is mainly an issue when I am practicing for the checkride and time is very congested; i.e I am doing two or three approaches back-to-back and have to get the briefing, checklists, maybe ATIS, listen to ATC, interact with my CFII, times, etc., all in a relatively few minutes rather than the more reasonable pace when on a cross-country.

So what I have to practice is:

• Downwind: Cruise speed; ATIS as needed and brief the approach.
• Headings to intercept: Descent checklist.
• Established before FAF: Slow to approach speed: drop gear if retract., start prelanding checklist.
• GS intercept: Reduce power, prelanding checklist.
• FAF: Start timer if applicable.

I think I need to table-fly it with a stopwatch then practice it around a fix, with a safety pilot.

John, push the descent checklist ATIS and slow to approach power to before you ever get to the downwind. Give youself more time....

 

[jason]

Hehe... this sounds familiar. (And Jesse is laughing now...)

There's a plateau where you're just BARELY keeping up. But you THINK you're doing fine because the approaches are fine. You won't like hearing this, but you need to go just a little bit FASTER.

The reality is... VFR you can handle the checklist, and all that other stuff... IFR you cant. So... you're NOT going quite fast enough yet.

Stuff like the checklist falling on the floor or the pencil not where you thought you put it, or the notepad being on the wrong leg... will completely blow everything. Try it. Toss the pencil on the floor. See if you can keep it all together.

You'll feel like a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.

To go that last 10-20% faster, you have to tell yourself to keep moving to the next thing.

But here's the "weird" part... you also need to RELAX. Tense won't help it smooth out and flow faster.

Scan, correct trends, look for pencil, scan, pick up pencil, correct trends, scan, write down item, scan, correct, scan... talk to yourself, and don't let the words or the actions stop.

Keep moving, no stopping, keep going...

It's annoying to realize you're not there yet when the approaches start to come together, but you need about 20% overhead for the unexpected. You fill in that 20% with things like glances at the engine instruments, and things that aren't critical to the approach when the unexpected DOESN'T happen... the pace doesn't slow, you just fill the time with things that otherwise aren't getting done.

I know... It's REALLY annoying finding out that you can get de-railed that easily at that point because you think "I've got this" and then the pencil falls on the floor... or the instructor says, "So, were you planning on starting your timer?"

Awww... $#()*Y&@#(% !!!

There's a rhythm to it that's about 20% faster than you think it is, right now. You'll get there.

Same plateau, same pizzzed off feeling... you're close... practice in your car... haha... seriously... road, speedometer, road, tach, road, radio (yeah, I know... who cares about the radio... it's about getting a scan moving)...

Try to bump the scan and response speed up about 20%... think metronome in your head if you have a musical background... it clicks, you have to move on... come back if you know something's still trending wrong... click, click, click...

It'll happen for ya. I promise.

Frustrating as hell, isn't it?

I start EVERY instrument flight with a minimum of two pens. One clipped to my kneeboard and one clipped somewhere within reach...but off of me. Generally the second one is clipped to the checklist pocket on the sidewall. I haven't made very many flights without having to grab that second pen at some point during the flight. Even if the first pen just feel between my legs...I don't waste bandwidth on it. Just grab for pen number two!

 

[denverpilot]

I start EVERY instrument flight with a minimum of two pens. One clipped to my kneeboard and one clipped somewhere within reach...but off of me. Generally the second one is clipped to the checklist pocket on the sidewall. I haven't made very many flights without having to grab that second pen at some point during the flight. Even if the first pen just feel between my legs...I don't waste bandwidth on it. Just grab for pen number two!

See Post #20.

 

[alfadog]

What kind of aircraft are you flying, avionics?

See my sig. I am doing my IR in the Cessna.

 

[alfadog]

John, push the descent checklist ATIS and slow to approach power to before you ever get to the downwind. Give youself more time....

Thanks.

Until recently, the ILS at KTMB was OOS while 9R/27L was extended and the normal checkride used Homestead Air Reserve Base (KHST). We usually do the ILS 5 and come around for the LOC/DME 5. According to my CFI, the DME arc is usually not done so it is all vectors.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1206/00494ILD5.PDF

After going missed on the ILS, you fly 180 and climb to 1600', then vectors probably first to 230 downwind, then 140, and 080 to intercept. Probably just leveling out when you get the turn to downwind.

So there is not a lot of time for me to move anything up. I am probably making a mistake to increase speed to cruise on the downwind. I might should just do a cruise checklist and tell the examiner that I will keep it at 100 mph to avoid needing delay vectors.

 

[Alexb2000]

See my sig. I am doing my IR in the Cessna.

Downwind: Cruise speed; ATIS as needed and brief the approach.
Headings to intercept: Descent checklist.
Established before FAF: Slow to approach speed: drop gear if retract., start prelanding checklist.
GS intercept: Reduce power, prelanding checklist.
FAF: Start timer if applicable.

How long does your approach briefing take (average)? When you do it are you putting all the info. in the avionics during the briefing? What do you write down at this point?

When established how fast are you going down on the step downs?

When you slow to approach speed is that quick or are you wasting time retiming?

May be a type, but do you do your pre landing before or after the GS?

 

[alfadog]

How long does your approach briefing take (average)? When you do it are you putting all the info. in the avionics during the briefing? What do you write down at this point?

I am guessing three minutes (need to time it at the table) because I am getting interrupted by ATC and CFII and am not fast.
Yes. Tune and identify.
Nothing.

When established how fast are you going down on the step downs?

I slow to and stay at 100 mph, no flaps, until the hood comes off.

When you slow to approach speed is that quick or are you wasting time retiming?

Retiming what? I slow before I need to time anything. It is fast, just pull to 2100 rpm.

May be a type, but do you do your pre landing before or after the GS?

I do most of the checklist before intercept and just need to pull carb heat and approach power. In my Arrow, I would turn on the fuel pump and pull approach power.

Thanks.

 

[jaybee]

Ha !

#1 - do all the training at night
#2 - try it in a heli chopper - i never wrote anything down except initial CRAFT
#3 - just the FACTS is all you need for an approach brief -

• F = frequency
• A = altitude
• C = course
• T = time
• S = supplemental

I have heard and seen instructors that think you have to recite the entire AF/D on the approach - thats retarded first of all and secondly that is all done on the ground before you leave. KISS.

 

[Alexb2000]

I am guessing three minutes (need to time it at the table) because I am getting interrupted by ATC and CFII and am not fast.
Yes. Tune and identify.
Nothing.


I slow to and stay at 100 mph, no flaps, until the hood comes off.


Retiming what? I slow before I need to time anything. It is fast, just pull to 2100 rpm.


I do most of the checklist before intercept and just need to pull carb heat and approach power. In my Arrow, I would turn on the fuel pump and pull approach power.

Thanks.

Damn this auto-correct, I just re-read my post, sorry.

Tell the CFI to you need to do the briefing. Some are testing you to see if you will exercise PIC, others just need to be told to shut-up.

I meant how fast do you descend. In other words are you hurrying down so you can have more time straight and level for tasks or are you going down slow and having to make another change before you're ready.

I meant is retriming (auto correct arrgh) quick or is that taking some time before you can look away from the gauges for other tasks?

 

[alfadog]

Damn this auto-correct, I just re-read my post, sorry.

No prob.

Tell the CFI to you need to do the briefing. Some are testing you to see if you will exercise PIC, others just need to be told to shut-up.

I think he is the latter. Good enough instructor, though. I am about done and have had maybe eight IR instructors so am not about to switch now.

I meant how fast do you descend. In other words are you hurrying down so you can have more time straight and level for tasks or are you going down slow and having to make another change before you're ready.

There is no descent before the GS (see my earlier post). Climb off missed then 1600' to GS or FAF. After GS or FAF, I do not want to be doing anything except fly the approach.

I meant is retriming (auto correct arrgh) quick or is that taking some time before you can look away from the gauges for other tasks?

Retrim not much of an issue, that is easy, especially if already at 100 mph. Some looking away to set radios.

 

[Alexb2000]

No prob.



I think he is the latter. Good enough instructor, though. I am about done and have had maybe eight IR instructors so am not about to switch now.



There is no descent before the GS (see my earlier post). Climb off missed then 1600' to GS or FAF. After GS or FAF, I do not want to be doing anything except fly the approach.



Retrim not much of an issue, that is easy, especially if already at 100 mph. Some looking away to set radios.

OK I'm out of ideas then. I'm sure it will all come together and get much easier with a little time. Just keep flying, as you can tell from the posts we've all been there.

 

[alfadog]

OK I'm out of ideas then. I'm sure it will all come together and get much easier with a little time. Just keep flying, as you can tell from the posts we've all been there.

Well, you are right about making sure the CFII is not interrupting me while I do my brief. I need to time it at the table and get some idea of how long I am taking.

 

[jesse]

I have heard and seen instructors that think you have to recite the entire AF/D on the approach - thats retarded first of all and secondly that is all done on the ground before you leave. KISS.

One needs to be able to full interpret an instrument plate while flying. Yes it's best to look at plates before departing but sometimes one ends up diverting. I suspect you haven't done a lot of instruction because unless the person can verbalize what they need to do on the approach they end up burying themselves in an unfamiliar approach. They'll get to a point on the plate and suddenly realize they have absolutely no idea how they were supposed to identify a fix nor were their radios configured for it. You need to know HOW you're going to do everything before you do it. Period.

Yes briefing an approach is hard while flying. Nobody ever said flying single pilot IFR will be easy nor is everyone cut out for it.

I tell students from the get-go that instrument training isn't going to be all fun and games and they most certainly will find themselves frustrated with themselves or me at some point.

I constantly work on making students THINK FASTER because that is the key. In order to do that -- I must constantly crank up the load as soon as they're comfortable and they need to learn how to deal with that load. If you find yourself seriously comfortable during all your instrument training or your IPC well then your instructor is failing you.

The only thing that should possibly be absolutely comfortable in instrument training, in my opinion, is the check-ride.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Yes briefing an approach is hard while flying. Nobody ever said flying single pilot IFR will be easy nor is everyone cut out for it.

These words should be engraved on every Instrument book in print.

I have somewhere around 4300 hours of actual IFR.(rotor and fixed wing) Most of it in crappy weather when sane people would be on the ground. BUT I always had a highly trained and focused crew with me. When I retired and started flying for fun I realized how spoiled I had been all those years. I had to relearn and readjust quite a bit. The great thing about flying is if you approach it as a constant learning experience you will never be disappointed...or hurt. If you begin to think you know it all....quit.

 

[jaybee]

One needs to be able to full interpret an instrument plate while flying. Yes it's best to look at plates before departing but sometimes one ends up diverting. I suspect you haven't done a lot of instruction because unless the person can verbalize what they need to do on the approach they end up burying themselves in an unfamiliar approach. They'll get to a point on the plate and suddenly realize they have absolutely no idea how they were supposed to identify a fix nor were their radios configured for it. You need to know HOW you're going to do everything before you do it. Period.

Yes briefing an approach is hard while flying. Nobody ever said flying single pilot IFR will be easy nor is everyone cut out for it.

I tell students from the get-go that instrument training isn't going to be all fun and games and they most certainly will find themselves frustrated with themselves or me at some point.

I constantly work on making students THINK FASTER because that is the key. In order to do that -- I must constantly crank up the load as soon as they're comfortable and they need to learn how to deal with that load. If you find yourself seriously comfortable during all your instrument training or your IPC well then your instructor is failing you.

The only thing that should possibly be absolutely comfortable in instrument training, in my opinion, is the check-ride.

I learned from a well experienced instructor. Retired military aviator, current 135 chief pilot, airshow performer and teaches for fun. I don't have to have done a lot of instruction to know that stupid is stupid, and an overabundance of useless information while flying an approach is stupid - what Frequency (115.9 tune and ident), what Alititude (3000 by IAF), what Course (150), what Time( 2:10 to next fix), what Supplement ( mins raised 100' by NOTAM ) - simple, rinse repeat for each fix.

Diverting is something that should have been accounted for on the ground - do I really got to explain 91.103(a) to you - 6P's anyone ?

Yes I have diverted. I get the FACTS as explained above. If you can't brief a plate enroute in under 30 seconds and set up your aircraft in another 30 seconds then I suggest a career or hobby change. For good lord's sakes the 430 even loads the frequencies for you when you select an approach.

I've done it while hand flying a helicopter. Its not hard. Keep It Simple Stupid and get the FACTS. After you trasition from enroute then just ACT. It really is that simple if you've done proper preflight planning - 6P's anyone ?

Not going to argue back and forth. I have my opinion and that is that. Why on earth you feel you have to correct my opinion and only yours is correct I know you have your little cult following here that will probably chastise me at the stake and you are most likely a pretty decent instructor so good luck saving the world hero

 

[jesse]

I learned from a well experienced instructor. Retired military aviator, current 135 chief pilot, airshow performer and teaches for fun. I don't have to have done a lot of instruction to know that stupid is stupid, and an overabundance of useless information while flying an approach is stupid - what Frequency (115.9 tune and ident), what Alititude (3000 by IAF), what Course (150), what Time( 2:10 to next fix), what Supplement ( mins raised 100' by NOTAM ) - simple, rinse repeat for each fix.

Diverting is something that should have been accounted for on the ground - do I really got to explain 91.103(a) to you - 6P's anyone ?

We're all entitled to our opinions. Mine is different then yours, that's all. You simply cannot account for all the potential places you may divert to while on the ground. There are simply way too many variables and things happen. Yes you should plan an alternate if required but it's quite possible you may go elsewhere.

Towards the end of training, an exercise I like to do is to depart on a cross country. I'll tell them our first destination and they'll study the approaches. We generally go missed there and I simply give them a heading or tell them to intercept a radial or proceed to some fix. I really don't tell them we're we are going for awhile. Eventually I tell them to proceed to X fix, cleared for Y approach, at airport Z they've probably never heard of.

We'll bounce around the state hitting random airports then proceed back to our original point of departure. In my opinion it really is the best training you'll get. If someone isn't capable of doing it I won't be signing them off for a ride.

Equipment failure, weather, etc..can all cause you to do a last minute approach at an airport you've never heard of. That is the real world and the real world is what I believe folks should train for.

Not going to argue back and forth. I have my opinion and that is that. Why on earth you feel you have to correct my opinion and only yours is correct I know you have your little cult following here that will probably chastise me at the stake and you are most likely a pretty decent instructor so good luck saving the world hero

I think you're a little confused by the discussion we're having. This isn't an argument, this is a friendly conversation, which means you should be leaving the personal attacks out. How about we try and maintain some respect for each other?