Front Range Spaceport

Certification in any field sets mininum standards. I, for one, was not raised to believe that meeting a minimum is a sufficient accomplishment.

And good for you!

By that same logic, the standards you are writing will soon be someone else's minimum standards and they'll change the world with the same attitude toward your spaceport standards, right?

And then your company will be hired to revise the standards. Just in time for another visionary to trump them again.

That's my point. You're the expert forever in that scenario. It's a good gig to have. Never ending government funded gravy train.

It's not bad. It just is. Möbius loop.
 
Revving the thread for a funny photo...

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This lease hit the wire this morning (pay no attention to the date):
DENVER (WATKINS), CO — October 10, 2012 (Spaceport Colorado PR) — Front Range Airport, home to the future Spaceport Colorado, signed a Letter of Intent with Rocket Crafters, Inc. for horizontal launch, dual-propulsion, suborbital flight operations at this “remote, but accessible” general aviation airport.
Rocket Crafters is not well known among suborbital space watchers. I have no idea if they are a serious shop or another Planetspace. The "dual propulsion" bit reminds of Rocketplane. Maybe they bought something of Rocketplane's in the bankrupcy auction. The most valuable part would probably be the design they completed just before shutdown that replaced the converted Learjet.
 
This lease hit the wire this morning (pay no attention to the date):
Rocket Crafters is not well known among suborbital space watchers. I have no idea if they are a serious shop or another Planetspace. The "dual propulsion" bit reminds of Rocketplane. Maybe they bought something of Rocketplane's in the bankrupcy auction. The most valuable part would probably be the design they completed just before shutdown that replaced the converted Learjet.
No, Rocket Crafters is not like Rocketplane. Entirely different concept and business plan. They have been developing their plan quietly for some time. It does not involve flying tourists on suborbital joyrides at all. They are similar to Rocketplane only in that, at this time, they are underfunded. But they did get a big incentives package for moving their headquarters and planned manuf facility to Titusville, FL.
 
..... moving their headquarters and planned manuf facility to Titusville, FL.

Which should be a no brainer for even a 2nd Grader.... All launches are to the East to get earths rotations help.... To put a spaceport in a place where a failed launch comes raining down on terra firma is downright DUMB.:yes::eek::mad:..

Let the first rocket fail to achive orbit and hit someone /something and that spaceport will be shuttered up faster then speeding bullet. IMHO.
 
Which should be a no brainer for even a 2nd Grader.... All launches are to the East to get earths rotations help.... To put a spaceport in a place where a failed launch comes raining down on terra firma is downright DUMB.:yes::eek::mad:..

Let the first rocket fail to achive orbit and hit someone /something and that spaceport will be shuttered up faster then speeding bullet. IMHO.

And none of the High MuckyMucks involved understand this. The rest of us see the growing urban areas (due south of FTG) and are completely dumbfounded that any reasonable person could believe Spaceport Colorado is practical.
 
All launches are to the East to get earths rotations help.
No, not all launches should go east. There are high azimuth orbits and polar orbits as well. I'm not saying they'll shoot high azimuth orbits from Front Range, but simply illustrating that there are many different kinds of flight profiles. And in the case of Rocket Crafters, orbital flight is not the goal anyway.

Second, there is some validity to the notion that starting from a high altitude gets you that much closer to the even higher altitudes. The high density altitude that hinders normally aspirated airplane engines aids suborbital and orbital launches.
 
No, not all launches should go east. There are high azimuth orbits and polar orbits as well. I'm not saying they'll shoot high azimuth orbits from Front Range, but simply illustrating that there are many different kinds of flight profiles. And in the case of Rocket Crafters, orbital flight is not the goal anyway.

Second, there is some validity to the notion that starting from a high altitude gets you that much closer to the even higher altitudes. The high density altitude that hinders normally aspirated airplane engines aids suborbital and orbital launches.

You are correct.... 99.6 % of the launches are to the East,, The other .4 % are not shot to obtain orbit so the don't really care.. Vandenberg will throw some up for target practice heading west out over the Pacific..

I lived in Fla and witnessed dozens if not a hundred space shots and every one had a Easterly trajectory with a north or south componant throw in for their respective slot they needed to fill. IMHO.;)
 
You are correct.... 99.6 % of the launches are to the East,, The other .4 % are not shot to obtain orbit so the don't really care.. Vandenberg will throw some up for target practice heading west out over the Pacific..
Some percentage of launches are to sun-synchronous orbits, with inclinations of about 98 degrees (launch azimuth slightly west of north). These orbits are used for imaging satellites; they ensure optimal lighting conditions under the spacecraft.

Otherwise, the inclinations probably don't matter much to most users. The higher the inclination, the more of the Earth's surface the spacecraft will fly over. This might be important to tourist missions.

Agree with the range-safety objection to places like Colorado and New Mexico. The Chinese have their main launch site well inland, and a few years back a rocket failed on launch and crunched into a town. No external count of casualties is available, but the Chinese admit that some folks were killed.

Ron Wanttaja
 
No, not all launches should go east. There are high azimuth orbits and polar orbits as well. I'm not saying they'll shoot high azimuth orbits from Front Range, but simply illustrating that there are many different kinds of flight profiles. And in the case of Rocket Crafters, orbital flight is not the goal anyway.

Second, there is some validity to the notion that starting from a high altitude gets you that much closer to the even higher altitudes. The high density altitude that hinders normally aspirated airplane engines aids suborbital and orbital launches.

Launch directions:
East - huge argricutural all the way to Omaha.
West - Denver. Sure. Right.
South - already discussed.
North - huge agricultural all the way to the Canadian border.
SW - Buckley AFB and the golf balls, then Colorado Springs.

As for the types of launches and the business plan, no one has bothered to enlighten us unwashed masses what the goals, objectives, type of businesses, etc.
 
I heard there's this awesome new thing called a STOLPort!

We should hire some planners to build some! They're the next big thing! ;)

hu9anyvu.jpg


Boooooondoggle.
 
Agree with the range-safety objection to places like Colorado and New Mexico. The Chinese have their main launch site well inland, and a few years back a rocket failed on launch and crunched into a town. No external count of casualties is available, but the Chinese admit that some folks were killed.
Sorry to say that, but including the 1996 accident into the discussion of range safety in Colorado and New Mexico is nonsensual. The launch was carried out without evacuation of the area and the flight termination system was not even used. Meanwhile Russians made 10x launches from two inland spaceports, a large number of which were unsuccessful, and not once an uninvolved civilian was injured. All it took is to evacuate the areas along the route of instantaneous impact point and perform thrust termination if booster flies off course.

The illlogic of dragging the CZ-3 into this discussion is made into an especially stark display when discussed in aviation forum. Aircraft killed uninvolved public and passengers on many occasions, and yet we do not abandon their use well inland, even over densely populated areas.
 
Sorry to say that, but including the 1996 accident into the discussion of range safety in Colorado and New Mexico is nonsensual. The launch was carried out without evacuation of the area and the flight termination system was not even used. Meanwhile Russians made 10x launches from two inland spaceports, a large number of which were unsuccessful, and not once an uninvolved civilian was injured. All it took is to evacuate the areas along the route of instantaneous impact point and perform thrust termination if booster flies off course.

The illlogic of dragging the CZ-3 into this discussion is made into an especially stark display when discussed in aviation forum. Aircraft killed uninvolved public and passengers on many occasions, and yet we do not abandon their use well inland, even over densely populated areas.
Having worked in the space business for 35 years, and been involved in the launch of a number of satellites, I feel I've got a good appreciation of the range safety issues involved.

Governments like China and Russia can evacuate large areas as they will; a private company cannot, and the US Government will undergo significant opposition if they try to do so for a private company. There are azimuths out of Plesestk and Star City (I almost typed Tyuratam) that do fly over vast tracts of minimally-occupied land, the same isn't really true out of Colorado.

"Threading the needle" out of Colorado to minimize risk to populated areas will be difficult; there's always going to be some small community or even individual farms at risk. I've seen launches delayed because a train entered the safety area... It's the railroad's track, and have the right-of-way.

Plus, what you plan isn't necessarily what the vehicle ends up flying; range safety is no panacea. I knew a guy (private launch services company) who jammed the range safety voice channel to prevent destruction of the first launch of their vehicle when it veered off-course (the rocket did recover, in fact).

The comparison between rockets and aircraft in public safety perception isn't quite apt. Most people SEE the benefit in aircraft; most end up flying on an airliner eventually, and see some advantages to letting them continue to fly. We, as pilots, argue against anti-airport folks on the basis that the airport was usually there first.

It's different with a "spaceport"...little of the population will see a personal or economic benefit, and in almost all cases, the people were there first.

I'm not sweating the private spaceports too much, because I think most of them will never see a launch in any case.

Ron Wanttaja
 
As for the types of launches and the business plan, no one has bothered to enlighten us unwashed masses what the goals, objectives, type of businesses, etc.
I am purposefully being circumspect because I am under an NDA and I simply don't want to take the chance of saying something I should not. However, looking at Rocket Crafters web site and looking up their (and public officials') public comments when they committed to locate in Titusville will tell you a lot about their plans.

It's also important to note that there is a qualitative difference between vertical launches of rockets and the kinds of flights planned out of most commercial spaceports. There are essentially three kinds of vehicles. Concept X vehicles have jet engines and rocket engines in one vehicle. It would take off like a jet, climb to an altitude of 40,000 to 50,000 feet, and ignite the rockets. Concept Y vehicles are like the Rocket Racers shown at Oshkosh a few years ago, but with more thrust. They launch horizontally under rocket power, rotate to about 75 to 80 degrees nose up, and climb like the dickens. These are the most difficult to put at ANY spaceport. Concept Z vehicles are like the WhiteKnight/SpaceShip combination you might recognize from the X prize and Virgin Galactic. Again, you have the ability to travel to a protected area for rocket ignition.

The hazard with any of them is primarily that the oxidizer and fuel is collocated on one vehicle. That creates an explosive hazard should, say, the aircraft operating under jet power crash for some reason. For the X and Z vehicles, flight profiles are not nearly as difficult because you have a lot of options of where you can take the vehicle before igniting the rocket. In the case of Stratolaunch, they're talking about 1,000 mile range.

For X and Z vehicles, the chances of an errant flight in the vicinity of the airport are virtually nil -- about what you might expect of a business jet. Concept Y is a little more difficult.

Now, in this kind of spaceport licensing, there are several aspects. First is that the facility has to be licensed. This involves explosive siting, risk assessments based on population density, designation of flight corridors, emergency management plans, and other "protection of the public" matters. Then there is an environmental assessment that looks at noise and air quality concerns, as well as some additional "on the ground" considerations. That gets the facility their license. After that, the vehicle operator has to undergo its own licensing at that facility, showing that they can hit the flight corridor (or getting a new one approved) and that they can meet the vehicle reliability standards used to do the risk analysis (or do a new risk analysis). The environmental approval is type specific as well, since the noise signature of a Concept X is completely different from a Concept Y.

There is much more. But I think these are the highlights of licensing.
 
Jeez. They already got to Z. Guess we can't build any more types of launch vehicles. Ran out of alphabet soup. ;)
 
It's also important to note that there is a qualitative difference between vertical launches of rockets and the kinds of flights planned out of most commercial spaceports.
Certainly, if only sub-orbital flights are planned, then the range-safety issues are much reduced. Your footprint isn't as large, and you have fewer uncontrolled events.

But it's like building an airport in the '20s with solid barriers at either end of the runway. All these systems should be considering evolution to orbital insertion, and it seems like putting money into infrastructure you'll just have to abandon doesn't seem like a good idea. But then again, it's probably *not* the suborbital launch people who are putting up the money for these facilities...

Ron Wanttaja
 
The hazard with any of them is primarily that the oxidizer and fuel is collocated on one vehicle. That creates an explosive hazard should, say, the aircraft operating under jet power crash for some reason. For the X and Z vehicles, flight profiles are not nearly as difficult because you have a lot of options of where you can take the vehicle before igniting the rocket. In the case of Stratolaunch, they're talking about 1,000 mile range.

For X and Z vehicles, the chances of an errant flight in the vicinity of the airport are virtually nil -- about what you might expect of a business jet. Concept Y is a little more difficult.

Excellent educational summary in spite of the NDA.

What people many not familiar with area don't understand is that Denver International Airport is 5 nm NW of FTG. So, if there's an explosion, I know for a fact that my airplane in the hangar (and probably all the hangars) will be toast. What about DIA?

Interesting thought - I wonder how/what my insurance on my little cherokee will be if this really happens and I'm still flying?
 
Excellent educational summary in spite of the NDA.

What people many not familiar with area don't understand is that Denver International Airport is 5 nm NW of FTG. So, if there's an explosion, I know for a fact that my airplane in the hangar (and probably all the hangars) will be toast. What about DIA?

Interesting thought - I wonder how/what my insurance on my little cherokee will be if this really happens and I'm still flying?
Due to the relatively small quantities of fuel and oxidizer, the explosive site plans require separations of about 1250 feet from the vehicle only when it is loaded with both fuel and oxidizer. Typically the oxidizer will be loaded only just before the vehicle lines up for takeoff. Seems to me from the preliminary analysis of Front Range there is plenty of room to prevent toasting "all the hangars"
 
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But it's like building an airport in the '20s with solid barriers at either end of the runway. All these systems should be considering evolution to orbital insertion, and it seems like putting money into infrastructure you'll just have to abandon doesn't seem like a good idea. But then again, it's probably *not* the suborbital launch people who are putting up the money for these facilities...

Ron Wanttaja
I'd have to disagree somewhat. I believe the future of the horizontal launch of space vehicles from airports/spaceports lies in point-to-point transportation -- think, I don't know, scramjet airliners or something. Serious orbital insertions will continue to come from conventional rockets for a long time.

But then, I'm not one of the rocket scientists designing the things, so what do I know?
 
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