Frikin laser beams

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snglecoil

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Chris
I decided to get in a night currency flight in on Sunday. On the way back in to the home airport, the cabin and bottom of the wings flashed and lit up like I had either just flown into a thunderstorm or was just about to have a close encounter with another plane. Scared the crap out me, until I realized it was...
frickin-laser-beams-5a72a4.jpg


I had a GoPro running and it didn't show much, just a couple of really quick green pinpoint dots hitting the windshield.

Anybody else have the joy of being lasered? I've heard someone suggest to turn off all the lights, which, of course, I would obviously never recommend for safety and consideration of the regs. But then again, maybe this could fall under 91.3(b)?
 
Lasing is definitely a thing, not to be trifled with. Coming from the helicopter world - low and slow - that was some of Charlie's favorite past times. I've had crew members afflicted, particularly with NVGs - they give away right where to point the laser. Damage to the eyes can be temporary, to permanent. A quick Google search will demonstrate lasing events in Commercial and GA aviation as well. There are countermeasures for lasers...but not something you'd see in GA. Glad it sounds like you're OK.
 
Note the time and position but don’t look at it, the likelihood of damage is minimal if you don’t stare at it.
 
When operating in a special part of an unnamed Asian country, we had to use laser protective visors. Those things cost more than the helmets we put them on...
 
Boone said:
Note the time and position but don’t look at it, the likelihood of damage is minimal if you don’t stare at it.
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Or, if the GoPro GPS was active, the feds might like the footage to try and locate the bastage.
 
If you get lazed while talking to ATC, let them know as soon as possible so they can mark the location and color of laser on their scope and warn other pilots. This happens a lot in Tucson. Most of the time we have one of the police helicopters in the air at the time and can direct them to it. Three busts so far and counting.
 
Yeah, since I was going between airports only 20 miles apart I opted not to talk to ATC. I thought about contacting approach to let them know and probably should have.
 
So is it pucks screwing with us? I’ve heard of it but not read up much on it..
 
Yep. I told ATC but not much they could do other than report it up the chain. It didn't occur to me at the time to cut my lights off and change course a bit. I was kinda in disbelief about how disturbing the green beam was. Like "am I actually getting hit by a laser right now?" Of course in hindsight I should have told ATC that's what I was going to do. I was VFR but there was no one around.
 
I have been lased in the eye. Not a nice experience, but no long term damage. A bit of short term issues.
Wasn’t long ago that some folks here were laughing at it and saying it’s a non issue.
 
Similar. It’s not fun, especially since it’s mostly a night flight thing, so your pupils are dilated. Happened to me once and the sensation later was as if I’d watched arc welding from a distance without eye protection.

How can people think that’s cool?
 
People aren't always smart, and don't always consider how their actions might affect others.
 
Kritchlow said:
I have been lased in the eye. Not a nice experience, but no long term damage. A bit of short term issues.
Wasn’t long ago that some folks here were laughing at it and saying it’s a non issue.
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It’s definitely an issue. Never been targeted while flying but I teach high school and got a green laser in my eyes from way down the hallway. Tried to catch the bastard but they were too far away. The pain is real. Thankfully no long term damage.
 
So what is the thrill in endangering a pilot with a high power laser? And why does anyone outside a research lab or manufacturing facility need a 5 watt handheld laser? I'm not understanding the rationale for consumer use.
 
chemgeek said:
<Snip> And why does anyone outside a research lab or manufacturing facility need a 5 watt handheld laser? I'm not understanding the rationale for consumer use.
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Holography. More power = less exposure time and less chance for something to move during the exposure. Hand-held makes it stupid easy to set up the alignment on a bench.
Bird control: https://www.birdcontrolgroup.com/aerolaser-handheld/
 
chemgeek said:
...And why does anyone outside a research lab or manufacturing facility need a 5 watt handheld laser? I'm not understanding the rationale for consumer use.
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Doesn’t even take 1/4 watt to create a hazard 2 miles away. More watts doesn’t correlate to greater hazard, either.
0524b51c98fc653eba6ba933f58e2a6f.jpg
 
snglecoil said:
Apparently, a lot of people are just a-holes....myself included according to my wife :dunno:
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I don't think they think about the danger. Here you've got one of those spiffy green lasers. You point it at the house across the street, cool. I can point it at that building way down the street, cool. I can point it at a cloud, cool. Hey, I can point it at that airplane. Ooops.

People are stupid.
 
Timbeck2 said:
If you get lazed while talking to ATC, let them know as soon as possible so they can mark the location and color of laser on their scope and warn other pilots. This happens a lot in Tucson. Most of the time we have one of the police helicopters in the air at the time and can direct them to it. Three busts so far and counting.
Click to expand...

Same situation over east El Paso several years ago. They got me and a couple of SWA flights. I got asked to orbit the area and NOT look down, was getting lit pretty good. LEO chopper came in fast without lights and were all over them like your situation ... it was a guy in his backyard.
 
snglecoil said:
I decided to get in a night currency flight in on Sunday. On the way back in to the home airport, the cabin and bottom of the wings flashed and lit up like I had either just flown into a thunderstorm or was just about to have a close encounter with another plane. Scared the crap out me, until I realized it was...
frickin-laser-beams-5a72a4.jpg


I had a GoPro running and it didn't show much, just a couple of really quick green pinpoint dots hitting the windshield.

Anybody else have the joy of being lasered? I've heard someone suggest to turn off all the lights, which, of course, I would obviously never recommend for safety and consideration of the regs. But then again, maybe this could fall under 91.3(b)?
Click to expand...
Don’t worry about the regs unless you value complying with a regulation more than being able to see. Laser exposure is potentially very damaging to your eyes.
 
snglecoil said:
...I've heard someone suggest to turn off all the lights, which, of course, I would obviously never recommend for safety and consideration of the regs. But then again, maybe this could fall under 91.3(b)?
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Avoiding an imminent threat of being blinded falls under the definition of "an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action," IMO.
 
donjohnston said:
Wait a minute... Viet Cong had lasers???
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My exact thought...lol... last time I heard the term used was out of my mouth doing “goodnight Charlie“ sweeps for night missions returning I required my pilots to complete in Bosnia. For those that don’t know a nighttime sweep of the perimeter of the base camp by a low level helicopter and preferably a pink team was a “Goodnight Charlie”
 
chemgeek said:
nd why does anyone outside a research lab or manufacturing facility need a 5 watt handheld laser? I'm not understanding the rationale for consumer use.
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Why stop at 5? How about 200?

There were never any planes in danger and I can prove it with science. First of all, we never turned the beam on more than 4 amps (50 watts)because we were having cooling issues and couldn't really monitor it up on the car.. (we tried 6 amps once but it was too bright.) So assuming the beam stayed perfectly collimated, the beam would have an area of 430 square centimeters. If the laser was running at 25% power (4 amps/50 watts) that would be about 110mw/cm2 from the telescope. However, your pupil is only half this size fully open, so a pilot could theoretically receive a 50mw/cm2 exposure. A decent amount, but you have to remember even the smallest plane is traveling 150 miles per hour which would limit total exposure time to only 3ms( time it takes to cross a 9 inch beam). That puts it at the cusp of the maximum exposure limit, which is defined as "about 10% of the dose that has a 50% chance of creating damage under worst-case conditions." Here is the chart im referencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_s... So even under perfect conditions, this would still be 10x less than the exposure that carries a risk of damage. That's assuming perfect conditions, but in reality it was a hazy night, the laser would not be perfectly collimated, the atmosphere would distort the beam, the windows in the airplane would deflect some of the beam, unless the pilot was staring directly at the beam they would receive a smaller dose, I tried to keep the beam moving when up in the sky, and most planes are moving faster. all of this meaning the pilot would be exposed to a much lower amount of laser energy in the real world than under perfect conditions. even at full power this laser is still within the safety factor of the maximum exposure limit. Plus do you know the odds of hitting a plane with a laser when your trying not to? just pick a random star in the sky and wait for a plane to fly over it
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Boone said:
I’m pretty sure that aiming Class 3B and Class 4 lasers above the horizon requires some type of approval. It does for gov’t agencies at least.
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...and let us not forget that "even the smallest plane is traveling 150 miles per hour" :rolleyes:
 
smv said:
...and let us not forget that "even the smallest plane is traveling 150 miles per hour" :rolleyes:
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CLEARLY, I've been doing it wrong all these years!
 
Lachlan said:
I believe that's actually 100% correct. My 150 travels miles per hour. Not very many, but still, after an hour I'm definitely a few miles away.
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...but is your 150 the smallest plane?
 
But they're correct: The smallest plane, the Starr Bumblebee, has a 150 mph cruise speed.

bumblebee-1.jpg
 
 
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Just need to mount a gun on your plane then you can take care of that rascal on the ground. You can do that if your plane is experimental right?
 
Bender Aviation said:
Just need to mount a gun on your plane then you can take care of that rascal on the ground. You can do that if your plane is experimental right?
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I don’t think the FAA has a problem with mounting it on an experimental. Dropping things that could endanger those on the ground might apply. Assuming you’re a good enough straffer.
 
Foreflight feature recommendation: laser target designator. Fly directly over where you got lased, press the LTD button and it automatically sends the coordinates to FAA and regional law enforcement agency.
 
Aren't there some corner reflectors that can bounce the beam right back to the source from any angle?
 
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