Frequency change really approved?

[Flocker]

Flew out of my home Class D airport today (PDK) and got an early "frequency change approved" (very common on a slow day). Called up Atlanta Approach to request Flight Following and they set me up. Shortly afterwards, I was told by the controller that in the future I should wait until I was clear of the Delta before calling them. 7 years of flying in this airspace and I've never heard this one before. Thoughts?

 

[PaulS]

Flew out of my home Class D airport today (PDK) and got an early "frequency change approved" (very common on a slow day). Called up Atlanta Approach to request Flight Following and they set me up. Shortly afterwards, I was told by the controller that in the future I should wait until I was clear of the Delta before calling them. 7 years of flying in this airspace and I've never heard this one before. Thoughts?

Ah, no. I do this a lot in deltas around here. Usually the tower offers it up, if they don't and I want an early change, I ask. I'm amazed how things are different from area to area.

 

[dmspilot]

Maybe they thought they were trying to help you avoid a PD in the future. I would have replied, "Tower told me I could switch".

 

[Shawn]

When Ground/Tower can't set up FF for me on the ground, it is common to get an early "frequent change approved" while still well inside the Delta if there is no other traffic of concern knowing I wanna contact Approach for FF. That happens commonly at a wide variety of Deltas for me. That is a new one.

"Technically" you are no longer in two way communication which is requirement to maintain inside Delta by the letter of the law which is what maybe Approach was alluding to since it was not a handoff, but that is SOP at most facilities.

 

[Tantalum]

Flew out of my home Class D airport today (PDK) and got an early "frequency change approved" (very common on a slow day). Called up Atlanta Approach to request Flight Following and they set me up. Shortly afterwards, I was told by the controller that in the future I should wait until I was clear of the Delta before calling them. 7 years of flying in this airspace and I've never heard this one before. Thoughts?

If I am departing downwind I *often* get "frequency change approved" or "contact Socal on XXXX" when I am practically mid-field.. point is, I get handed off *very* early, seems on busy days they hand me off even earlier.. never had a controller have an issue with this. In fact, once they even called me before I had a chance to key up the mic.

In your situation I think you did the right thing. If you DON'T switch then tower doesn't know this, and they'll assume your gone, and the controller is taking care of your seperation, etc. I would have switched over and if the controller hassled me I would have told him "Roger, tower handed me off a moment ago, should I switch back, or?" .. the controller genuinely may not have known and may have thought he was helping you out by letting you know you're still in the delta..

Also, these guys are friendly, worth it to call the local TRACON and just ask one of them over the phone

 

[luvflyin]

Flew out of my home Class D airport today (PDK) and got an early "frequency change approved" (very common on a slow day). Called up Atlanta Approach to request Flight Following and they set me up. Shortly afterwards, I was told by the controller that in the future I should wait until I was clear of the Delta before calling them. 7 years of flying in this airspace and I've never heard this one before. Thoughts?

Coulda went something like this. You called approach requesting Flight Following. When they identified you, you were in the Towers airspace so they called the Tower to tell them. Tower said yeah yeah, he just departed here. That you only got that speech once in 7 years probably tells the story. The Approach Controller was trying to do it by the book, to the extreme, and doesn’t want you popping up with him while still in another Controllers airspace.

 

[Caramon13]

Never heard of it. I've flown out of KSPG MANY times, and they will let you go before you clear their airspace. Tampa Bravo is at 1200 feet southbound, so I often call up approach after departing, never had a problem with them. Almost always I want to be crossing the water at 2000 so I get the Bravo clearance and go.

 

[Flocker]

The Approach Controller was trying to do it by the book, to the extreme, and doesn’t want you popping up with him while still in another Controllers airspace.

Makes sense. Thanks

 

[AU_James]

"Technically" you are no longer in two way communication which is requirement to maintain inside Delta by the letter of the law

I thought you had to establish two way communication to be allowed into the airspace, not to maintain the airspace you were already allowed to occupy. In other words, I don't think you get "kicked out" after being legally allowed in. If you were to swap frequencies without being told, however, that's another issue but you're not violating airspace at that point.

I've flown out of KSPG MANY times

I'm tied down there now, about to move into a hangar at KPIE!

 

[Salty]

I thought you had to establish two way communication to be allowed into the airspace, not to maintain the airspace you were already allowed to occupy. In other words, I don't think you get "kicked out" after being legally allowed in. If you were to swap frequencies without being told, however, that's another issue but you're not violating airspace at that point.


I'm tied down there now, about to move into a hangar at KPIE!

So let’s actually read the FAR

91.129:

(1)Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

 

[AU_James]

Thanks for looking that up. While at work I couldn't.

With that said, I'm sure there are agreements in place and again, if you're being told to change frequency, then there's no issue. A friendly "tower sent me over to you" if Approach seems to have a problem would certainly fix it.

 

[Unit74]

Last week shortly after wheels up it was, “ once clear of the delta, frequency changed approved” When I got it, I was already 500 ft outside their airspace. Kinda nice having 300 hp

 

[EdFred]

So let’s actually read the FAR

91.129:

But it also leads off with

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area, each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must comply with the applicable provisions of this section.

So ATC cutting him loose is authorized, and he doesn't need to remain in constant communication inside the D. (or C - I get cut loose early all the time - almost every time I'm exiting GRR airspace)

 

[N1120A]

That controller was full of it. The only place you can't get FF on the ground in Southern California is in Mugu Approach's airspace, meaning out of KCMA and KOXR (something that annoys pilots and tower controllers alike). They regularly cut you loose early and even offer up the frequency you need for FF. Out of KCMA, it's usually when I'm at about 1200' or so, abeam the tower, on downwind. I've never had someone at Mugu tell me to wait till I'm out of the Delta - in general, they want you talking to them anyway, cause you are often crossing their approach path.