frequency change approve while still in Class C

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uncreative

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Uncreative
I heard a story about at guy who was flying through class C with flight following, had the non towered (tower closed for the night) airport in sight, told ATC, and then was told frequency change approved to CTAF (actual freq was given), squak vfr. pilot did so. afterwards the pilot realized that he was still in class c for a few minutes after freq change approved.

is this normal practice? is the pilot going to have some splaining to do? should the pilot have reminded ATC that he was still in Class C?
 
Normal procedure. Frequency change approved is just that. Class C only requires two way communication to be established, doesn't mean it needs to be until you clear class C. Even on an IFR flight plan you'll eventually have to go to CTAF if you're going into an uncontrolled field.
 
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The reverse is true as well. The pilot doesn't have to contact Class C approach until after departing the non-towered field.
 
uncreative said:
I heard a story about at guy who was flying through class C with flight following, had the non towered (tower closed for the night) airport in sight, told ATC, and then was told frequency change approved to CTAF (actual freq was given), squak vfr. pilot did so. afterwards the pilot realized that he was still in class c for a few minutes after freq change approved.

is this normal practice? is the pilot going to have some splaining to do? should the pilot have reminded ATC that he was still in Class C?
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I would ask ATC to remain on frequency and with squawk code until clear of Class C. Why? Flight following as a minimum.

It was possible the airspace was clear and the controller was fine cutting the guy loose. But why not get flight following anyway?
 
If the untowered airport your going to is right next to class C then you want to be monitoring and talking on CTAF in advance.
 
Normal procedure. You have to go to CTAF at some point. ATC isn't going to keep you on their freq when you need to be giving traffic calls on CTAF. They don't care and wouldn't want responsibility for what goes on in a non towered airfield in their airspace.
 
The rationale for the establishment of Class C airspace was that ATC wanted to be able to identify and know the intentions of airplanes flying in its defined airspace. Because they had already identified the plane and knew the pilot's intentions, leaving the freq was no biggie....they don't have to track each and every target during the time that target is in their airspace.

Bob Gardner
 
Note that the first sentence in 91.130 says "Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and §91.129." [emphasis added]
 
uncreative said:
is this normal practice?
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Yes.

is the pilot going to have some splaining to do?
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No.

should the pilot have reminded ATC that he was still in Class C?
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No.


From Order JO 7110.65 Air Traffic Contol:

Section 8. Class C Service− Terminal

7−8−8. TERMINATION OF SERVICE

Unless aircraft are landing at secondary airports or have requested termination of service while in the outer area, provide services until the aircraft departs the associated outer area. Terminate Class C service to aircraft landing at other than the primary airport at a sufficient distance from the airport to allow the pilot to change to the appropriate frequency for traffic and airport information.

PHRASEOLOGY−
CHANGE TO ADVISORY FREQUENCY APPROVED,

or

CONTACT (facility identification).



§91.130 Operations in Class C airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each aircraft operation in Class C airspace must be conducted in compliance with this section and §91.129. For the purpose of this section, the primary airport is the airport for which the Class C airspace area is designated. A satellite airport is any other airport within the Class C airspace area.

(b) Traffic patterns. No person may take off or land an aircraft at a satellite airport within a Class C airspace area except in compliance with FAA arrival and departure traffic patterns.

(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:

(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.

(2) Departing flight. Each person—

(i) From the primary airport or satellite airport with an operating control tower must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the control tower, and thereafter as instructed by ATC while operating in the Class C airspace area; or

(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area as soon as practicable after departing.

(d) Equipment requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the ATC having jurisdiction over the Class C airspace area, no person may operate an aircraft within a Class C airspace area designated for an airport unless that aircraft is equipped with the applicable equipment specified in §91.215, and after January 1, 2020, §91.225.

(e) Deviations. An operator may deviate from any provision of this section under the provisions of an ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned. ATC may authorize a deviation on a continuing basis or for an individual flight, as appropriate.
 
I have gotten this same instruction while in bravo airspace, flying vfr into our home field under bravo shelf. I remember them telling me to keep my squak, frequency change approved.
 
Its normal. When I go to FRG from ISP there is little time and airspace from C to D. I'll usually get a frequency change and squawk change about 7 miles east of FRG while still in Charlie
 
uncreative said:
I heard a story about at guy who was flying through class C with flight following, had the non towered (tower closed for the night) airport in sight, told ATC, and then was told frequency change approved to CTAF (actual freq was given), squak vfr. pilot did so. afterwards the pilot realized that he was still in class c for a few minutes after freq change approved.

is this normal practice? is the pilot going to have some splaining to do? should the pilot have reminded ATC that he was still in Class C?
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Very much so. Said another way, I purposely call "airport in sight" when I'm ready to switch to CTAF.

Because I'm normally on an IFR clearance, the airport in sight call may or may not be accompanied by a "cancel IFR" call so the interaction may be a bit different than a VFR interaction.

VFR on FF, I would expect the controller to give me a traffic assessment and if all clear, will say "squawk VFR, switch to advisory". If traffic is seen or expected or otherwise in play, the controller may suggest I stay on code and monitor the freq. With multiple radios and monitoring capabilities, that's what I 'd do anyway. I would normally be monitoring CTAF well before the airport or airport environment is in sight.

I operate on the very edge of a Class C out of a private strip so this is the normal end of most trips.
 
Sometimes, one controlled airspace abuts another. If I need to depart Class D into Class B, I will expect to contact Approach or the Class B tower (as appropriate) while still in Class D. If I don't get the handoff, I'll ask for it.

That means I'm not in contact with the correct ATC inside Class D. It's normal and expected, and the only problems are when the Class D tower is excessively busy.

I don't see how it could be any other way. And it's the same situation, just a bit more obvious because of the Class B clearance requirement.
 
Regarding class D, I see that 91.129 says unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the area.
 
Our ATC has done this to me many times. It's their call to do so. Most of the time it depends on how busy they are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CTLSi said:
I would ask ATC to remain on frequency and with squawk code until clear of Class C. Why? Flight following as a minimum.

It was possible the airspace was clear and the controller was fine cutting the guy loose. But why not get flight following anyway?
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At some point you would have to be cut loose from flight following. The controller would issue any traffic, if there was any conflicting or if they observe any between you and the field. I would rather get over to the CTAF to announce intentions and listen for departing traffic.
 
I've had our local C kick me to advisory anywhere from just outside the surface ring to their outer 20NM control zone.
 
I have gotten this same instruction while in bravo airspace, flying vfr into our home field under bravo shelf.
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I have had the same thing happen as well, only I was actually in the Bravo. I guess there was no conflicting traffic, I was almost at the home airport and the controller was ready to get rid of me.
 
As far as I can see in 91.131, once you have received a class B clearance, the only requirement for continued communications with ATC is where it says you have to also comply with 91.129, so the "unless otherwise authorized or required" language of 91.129(a) would seem to apply. That would appear to cover the case where they give you a frequency change before you're actually out of their airspace.
 
uncreative said:
I heard a story about at guy who was flying through class C with flight following, had the non towered (tower closed for the night) airport in sight, told ATC, and then was told frequency change approved to CTAF (actual freq was given), squak vfr. pilot did so. afterwards the pilot realized that he was still in class c for a few minutes after freq change approved.

is this normal practice? is the pilot going to have some splaining to do? should the pilot have reminded ATC that he was still in Class C?
Click to expand...


Normal. No worries.

ATC made the decision that he was approved to change freqs. They only do that if no traffic of consequence is observed between where they are and where they are going. Happens all the time.

Now if he continued to fly in Class C and didn't descend and land, that might be a different story. But as you described it, no worries.
 
My favorite is the fine folks at Colorado Springs approach.. I'm based out of Meadow Lake.. just outside the C with a little notch to let you in and out. I always use flight following. As my wife and I were coming back from a trip out east I get the cleared to switch with the statement, no observed traffic between you and Meadow Lake. Not a minute after I switch my wife says what is that.. I look right and there is a C-130.. pretty low as I am descending to join the pattern at Meadow Lake. I guess he must have been outside the altitude threshold, but he sure looked low to me and big as a barn door. I am guessing he was flying into Peterson AFB.

Carl
 
somorris said:
I have had the same thing happen as well, only I was actually in the Bravo. I guess there was no conflicting traffic, I was almost at the home airport and the controller was ready to get rid of me.
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Same here, I just wasn't clear. Very helpful, and keeps you from getting cut loose 3 mi from the field to get on ctaf frequency.
 
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