Freedom During Intro Flights

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Chandler Stainbrook

Filing Flight Plan
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Chandler Stainbrook
First of all, hello everyone.

At the end of this month, I'm taking an intro flight at Embry-Riddle in Prescott.

I'd like to know, how much freedom will I have in terms of taking on the duties as a pilot? Trimming, mixture, working the rudder, talking on the radio, the run up, those kinds of things.

It may or may not help to know that I have extensive experience taken seriously on my personal flight simulator at home (yoke, pedals, throttle quadrant, radios, lights and engine switches). I also have recently completed the Sporty's ground school course, as well have been learning about aviation and flying for many years prior.

Thank you for any constructive feedback you may have.
 
you'll probably 'have the opportunity' to do more than you think. it WON'T be because you walk into the FBO and say "I do flight sim at home". if you show you are completely incapable of doing stuff, you'll have the opportunity to do less than you think, otherwise you'll be flying the plane!
 
eman1200 said:
you'll probably 'have the opportunity' to do more than you think. it WON'T be because you walk into the FBO and say "I do flight sim at home". if you show you are completely incapable of doing stuff, you'll have the opportunity to do less than you think, otherwise you'll be flying the plane!
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Haha no I won't say something like that, but that's nice to know. Thanks
 
If it's a "discovery" flight that's typical of most flight schools, they let you do the stick-n-rudder stuff for about 2/3rds of the flight, while they work the radios, throttle, etc. I think went I first went up at John Wayne, they let me fly the 45 into the pattern, then downwind, and before the base turn the CFI took the controls back.
 
A good discovery flight will have you do all those things. But it's ultimately the instructor's choice.

But don't expect the sim to help much, if at all. Flying a desktop sim -- even a really good one -- is a VERY different beast from flying a real airplane, and for primary training, the overlap is surprisingly small, almost zero pre-solo.

And you are very likely to need to learn to keep your head above the glareshield.

My own discovery flight had me take the controls at 200 feet, and then relinquish them again at the same altitude. I did everything but takeoff and landing, including all the radio calls and taxiing. And then I put the sim away until I started my instrument rating. It just wasn't useful.
 
on the two intro flights I took the instructor in both cases had me taxi and do the take off...with him closely monitoring of course. my only experience at the time were about 20-hrs in a C152 30-years earlier. hope you enjoy it!
 
Chandler Stainbrook said:
First of all, hello everyone.

At the end of this month, I'm taking an intro flight at Embry-Riddle in Prescott.

I'd like to know, how much freedom will I have in terms of taking on the duties as a pilot? Trimming, mixture, working the rudder, talking on the radio, the run up, those kinds of things.

It may or may not help to know that I have extensive experience taken seriously on my personal flight simulator at home (yoke, pedals, throttle quadrant, radios, lights and engine switches). I also have recently completed the Sporty's ground school course, as well have been learning about aviation and flying for many years prior.

Thank you for any constructive feedback you may have.
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Hmm why is my troll alert going off? :confused:
 
You'll be able to do most of the flying with some assistance from the instructor.
 
I just had an intro flight on Tuesday, here's my experience:

I taxi'd most of the way, but he took over as we got closer to line up. I worked the throttle for most of the taxi-ing I did.

He offered to let me take off, but I wasn't thinking I was going to, as reading on the website it said the CFI would take off and land...so I declined and had my hands hovering on the controls to see what he was doing. I regret declining, but I wasn't "mentally prepared" that I would be performing that function I guess.

I climbed us out. He showed me how easy the plane responds to turns, demonstrated some. Demonstrated how you could turn the plane somewhat with the rudder. Then I took over again to do some turns and climbing turns.

He took over on the way back and landed. He taxi'd back most of the way with me doing some of it.

The entire time he worked the radio.

This was at an active airport (KABQ), with commercial and military aircraft coming and going at all times. No way would I be prepared to work a radio in that situation. Or do some of the other functions...yet.
 
My first discovery flight involved, steep turns, power on/off stalls, and forward slipping to lose altitude when landing.

It was the most intense 1hr of my life
 
I conducted two intro flights while checking out flight schools in LGB a few months ago. During both flights the CFI(s) let me control the yoke during the take-off and the departure climb...very amazing feeling as I never had flown an plane before that day. I flew the majority of both flight as we conducted a few basic maneuvers: turning climbs, straight and level flight, power-off descents, basic radio comms, TCAS overview, tachometer rate review...etc. CFI(s) let me fly to the TP, adjust on the DW and base. CFI(s) took the controls for the landings. Great experience nonetheless.
 
One thing I'll add, a desktop sim is most useful for instrument training rather than primary training. As already mentioned, don't expect to be capable of flying the real airplane from it. You will get a good feel during a disco ride and the CFI will judge how much or how little to allow for the student.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention one of my favorite parts of my flight on Tuesday.

Listening to tower reroute planes readying for departure, and some coming in, because of a coyote running across the different runways and taxiways!
 
abqtj said:
Oh, I forgot to mention one of my favorite parts of my flight on Tuesday.

Listening to tower reroute planes readying for departure, and some coming in, because of a coyote running across the different runways and taxiways!
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Last time I was at KSAF, I reported one chasing me during takeoff alongside the runway and all I got was an annoyed, "Roger". LOL.
 
MAKG1 said:
Well, what did you want them to do? Give the coyote a phone number to call?
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LOL. Warning the arriving airliner might have been good. But I didn't care.

I happen to know for a fact that certain airports in the local area have special State hunting permits and the rifles to back it up, for critters that won't "haze" away. But they don't advertise that too much since it gets the GenPop all whiney at public meetings if anyone notices them doing it.

Plus, they have to figure out who on the ops staff can even shoot worth a damn and then put them on the night shift for a couple of days to "get er done" when not many greenies will notice.

Lights and sirens on the ops vehicles, and blanks in the guns, *usually* work. But not always.
 
denverpilot said:
Last time I was at KSAF, I reported one chasing me during takeoff alongside the runway and all I got was an annoyed, "Roger". LOL.
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Funny, I was doing touch-n-go's with my CFI and a coyote went across the runway and then sat down on it to the left of the centerline. Nice 150' wide runways so we went over to the right side and rolled past it before adding power to take off again. We told the tower about it, they asked if we were past it, then just told us "Thanks."

On the subject of the original post, on my discovery flight I did everything from taxi, to take off, to landing. The CFI had his hands/feet on the controls but gave very little input to them. We even did a couple of touch-n-go's. If the OP is interested this was my write up of my first flight. http://intothesky.us/2016/05/28/first-flight/
 
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I didn't let any discovery flight folks touch the radio...I had a license, they didn't. Other than that, I handed over the controls at about 600 feet agl. I did not, and would never, get into stalls or even discuss stalls with a newbie. Many have already been "helped" by friends or co-workers who had said "Learning to fly? Wait until you get into stalls!!!"

Bob Gardner
 
Before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I am cognizant of the following from FCC regs:

"(d) No operator license is required to:
(1) Operate an aircraft radar set, radio altimeter, transponder or other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitter by flight personnel;"

Still, out of consideration for ATC and anyone else using aviation frequencies I do not let anyone use the radio who is not qualified to do so.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
Before anyone gets their panties in a twist.....

Still, out of consideration for ATC and anyone else using aviation frequencies I do not let anyone use the radio who is not qualified to do so.

Bob
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Ok so you'll "hand over the controls" of an airplane at 600' but you won't let them click the ptt and say "roger". Got it.
 
The last poster clearly has his panties in a twist!
 
bobmrg said:
Before anyone gets their panties in a twist, I am cognizant of the following from FCC regs:

"(d) No operator license is required to:
(1) Operate an aircraft radar set, radio altimeter, transponder or other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitter by flight personnel;"

Still, out of consideration for ATC and anyone else using aviation frequencies I do not let anyone use the radio who is not qualified to do so.

Bob
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How do you teach initial students?
 
Kritchlow said:
How do you teach initial students?
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I do not think that there is anyone participating in this forum who does not know the difference between a discovery flight and a lesson....or has the use of a syllabus gone out of style?

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
I didn't let any discovery flight folks touch the radio...I had a license, they didn't. Other than that, I handed over the controls at about 600 feet agl. I did not, and would never, get into stalls or even discuss stalls with a newbie. Many have already been "helped" by friends or co-workers who had said "Learning to fly? Wait until you get into stalls!!!"

Bob Gardner
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That was actually the most fun of my discovery flight was doing them. lol

I thought that we were just going to go up and make some turns and stuff like that, boy was I wrong.
 
bobmrg said:
I do not think that there is anyone participating in this forum who does not know the difference between a discovery flight and a lesson....or has the use of a syllabus gone out of style?

Bob Gardner
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Okay.... but that's not what you said in your post.

Thanks for the explanation.
I haven't taught in many years but I believe I had a unique style that truly enhanced learning.
 
It all depends on the CFI and how you look to him. I've taken 6 Discovery Flights (to calm not been able to get into a flight school yet) All of them in different schools.
In the lasts 2 flights the new stuff was:
1. The CFI showed me steep turns and then let me do a couple
2. I got to taxi, take off, fly and set in approach.

It doesn't hurt if you do your homework before going. Airport diagram, route, aircraft specs, etc.
 
eman1200 said:
Ok so you'll "hand over the controls" of an airplane at 600' but you won't let them click the ptt and say "roger". Got it.
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I agree with him. A competent instructor can keep a student from killing them so handing over the controls is no big deal. However, like Bob said, a newbie on the radio could cause problems for others, not to mention multi tasking is difficult at best when beginning. So, you want to fly or do you want to talk, hard to do both.
 
A competent CFI can correct any mishap a student does.... whether it be by taking controls, correcting before taking controls, or keying the Mike to make a communication error. BFD
 
Mike Smith said:
I agree with him. A competent instructor can keep a student from killing them so handing over the controls is no big deal. However, like Bob said, a newbie on the radio could cause problems for others, not to mention multi tasking is difficult at best when beginning. So, you want to fly or do you want to talk, hard to do both.
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nobody said do both. and nobody said to let a discovery person use the radio at critical times in the flight. and I have a friend of a neighbor of an uncle's daughters grandpa who was dating their own dranddaughter who screwed up radio calls plenty while training. all through training. I guess my, uh, I mean that person's CFI was a superhero and saved countless of lives after I, uh, I mean that person screwed up radio calls. yeah, sounds really dangerous to let a discovery flight person say "podunk ground, cherokee 12345" then let the instructor take over from there. don't know what I was thinking, what a daredevil I am.
 
Oh c'mon.... what can a student say that an instructor can't stop them and correct..??

Silly IMO.
 
I think Bob was right, twisted panties in here, but hey, it's POA.

ETA, before you anyone talks too much smack, you may want to do just a bit of checking up on Bobs credentials.
 
Mike Smith said:
I think Bob was right, twisted panties in here, but hey, it's POA.

ETA, before you anyone talks too much smack, you may want to do just a bit of checking up on Bobs credentials.
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I'm sure Bob has awesome credentials.
What's your point? Is no other instructor allowed to have a different teaching style?
 
Kritchlow said:
I'm sure Bob has awesome credentials.
What's your point? Is no other instructor allowed to have a different teaching style?
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Certainly they are, no one is questioning other instructors style. Bob, is a hell of an instructor and to question his methods is borderline stupid. You might do things different, that's cool, but don't knock his. That's my point.
 
Mike Smith said:
Certainly they are, no one is questioning other instructors style. Bob, is a hell of an instructor and to question his methods is borderline stupid. You might do things different, that's cool, but don't knock his. That's my point.
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Did I knock his?? Not sure. That said, I still like my way of teaching in this particular situation better.
 
I think a good CFI will let the student (even first time intro flight if he/she seems serious and eager) do as much as possible, within the bounds of safety and reason. But I agree that radio talk is not crucial and can be postponed to later lessons.
BTW, I think radio work in general is secondary to learning to fly. During my recent glider rating add-on course, the training ships didn't even have a radio, and that was most refreshing for this veteran IFR pilot (and allowed us to concentrate on flying and actually looking for traffic like our life depended on it).
 
I got to listen to the radio, talk on the radio, taxi, take off and fly, climb, turn and trim. I didnt get to tune the radio or land. Didn't really want to either. It was fine. It all depends on your instructor and airport, flight school etc...

I don't think a first time student should do stalls. Landings come a few lessons later also. Learn to walk before your run.
 
I also think the intro student needs a blend...
A bit of looking out the window and learning a bit about flying. An intense lesson is not the goal. The point here is to entice the prospective student to start a serious curriculum of lessons. There is NOTHING they can do in the airplane that a competent CFI cannot recover from, so let them have fun. Formal instruction starts on lesson 1, but intro flight is NOT lesson 1.
 
On intro flights, I let the student do practically everything except for land and radios. Even with the landings I tell them to put their hands on the yoke and I talk them through what I do. One guy was curious about the radios so I just told him what to say and he got to talk the tower. I treated the first lesson as a sightseeing/familiarization flight. I just wanted them to have a good time without feeling any pressure. If they wanted to see a stall or steep turn I would demonstrate it. I wouldn't do it if they brought a guest in the back seat though.
 
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