Found a buyer now what

cgrab

cgrab

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cgrab
I found a buyer for my plane and he would like me to fly the plane to his mechanic an hour away and he would drive me back while his mechanic does an inspection.

On the one hand, I don't like to leave my plane and not know what is going on with it. FOr instance, when it was in annual I stopped by each day to see the progress and to help out where I could.

On the other hand, I know the plane is in good shape and will pass prebuy/annual inspection.

Still....

I think I would like to ask their mechanic to come to my hangar and spend the day doing the inspection.

What says the zeitgeist?
 
cgrab said:
I think I would like to ask their mechanic to come to my hangar and spend the day doing the inspection.
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FWIW: This. Whenever I did a pre-buy I always traveled to the aircraft just in case an issue was found. In this case as seller, I would keep the aircraft under your control for the same reason. I would also define in writing what that "inspection" will be.
 
A few tales of woe have started with the sellers plane disassembled in the buyers mechanics hangar, unpaid bills, mechanics liens etc.

Have him bring his mechanic to inspect the plane. If it is as represented, complete the deal and he can do with his plane as he pleases.
 
maybe arrange with his mechanic to have the inspection done in one day, within a certain timeframe, and that under no circumstances are you leaving the plane there for any reason whatsoever. if u got time to hang around, that is....

when I got my plane I was pretty adamant about having ANYONE do the inspecting except for his mechanic. he didn't wan't to bring the plane anywhere or have anyone but his mechanic do the inspection. so we compromised and did it my way. we brought the plane to an independent service center (basically anyone was independent of me, I had no A&P relationship with anyone). I know for a fact he had a discussion with them and said under no circumstances was anything keeping him from bringing his plane home that day (actually it took a coupl'a days, but still). well, other than the sale, of course. it worked out great for everyone.
 
we don’t own a plane but we do own a 40’ motorhome. i would not drive our MH an hour away and leave it for unknown persons to inspect. suggest you have the inspection done on your home field and plan to remain on scene while it’s done.
 
I've done a few owner assisted annuals and it takes me two days to open all the inspection ports and pull all the interior so the mechanic can spend a couple of hours with the plane. Then a couple of days to put it back together. I guess I can offer this as an alternative. Bring on those 95 degree days.....
 
You could theoretically take the plane to him and his mechanic could find a "grounding," unairworthy problem.
Have them come to you, avoid any weirdness.
 
I presume you have the airplane under a conditional contract with the buyer, with adequate deposit in escrow, subject only to the results of the inspection?
 
If you don’t want his mechanic fixing anything found, the airplane stays in range of yours. For whatever values of “in range” you like.
 
I am a very recent convert to the "plane stays home" way of thinking, which I notice is unanimous here.

I've sold planes and had some potentially-bad shenanigans occur while they were out of my care -- recently an un-asked and un-insured test flight of my Bonanza S35. Luckily they did not crash. :eek: The mind still boggles if they had. My buyers had no hi-po or complex endorsements (because I trained them for same after the sale) so I have no idea who flew the thing and whether they met my open.

I also arranged for the plane's delivery to its prebuy, and while the buyer was gracious enough to return my pilot home after dropping the plane off, after the prebuy was finished, they were suddenly far too busy to collect my pilot to bring the plane home, costing me an added $95 Uber.

I'd be an excellent host, offer them everything they'll need to complete their thorough inspection, but I'd keep the thing under your watchful eye and control. I know I will be next time.

$0.02.
 
I flew a plane to a guy a few years ago, IN from WI. He had flown to meet with another mechanic/pilot. We had already talked a good amount. He/they looked over the books & plane, didn’t take anything apart. He electronically transferred about $35k, then flew away. Yes I checked on the transfer.

I wouldn’t want to leave the plane. I had one prospective buyer insinuating ‘hail damage‘, trying to work the price earlier. That plane I sold is still doing it’s job often(flight aware) training new pilots. It was a low time Warrior.
 
Luigi said:
You could theoretically take the plane to him and his mechanic could find a "grounding," unairworthy problem.
Have them come to you, avoid any weirdness.
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Nope mechanics do not have the power to declare a plane unairworthy. They only have the power to declare them airworthy again. Of course, to your point, a mechanic can do something that makes you decide it’s unairworthy ( IE: they can break something intentionally or accidentally)

I’m with the consensus, if he wants to take your plane somewhere and do stuff with it, he can buy it first.
 
Thanks to all, I think I know where I'm going from here-my hangar.
 
I'm the other side, I don't trust your mechanic and my own can't do due diligence in a single day. Also, part of due diligence is taking the plane up to make sure everything works where it's supposed to work, in the air. If I'm paying $100k+ for something I better be damned sure I'm getting my money's worth and not a never ending plane on the ground money pit fiasco.

Here's what I've run into as a buyer, keep in mind these were all "great" planes:
  1. IRAN claimed as overhauled (turns out cracked block) and buyer didn't want us flying cause he didn't trust us. No running the llane on the ground either. Just accept his annual.
  2. No gear swings tests on a retract. No flying till I bought it. Trust the IA.
  3. No pulling up the interior to access the inspection plates. What if my mechanic damaged his plane?
  4. Engine that was run, not flown, for 45hrs past 15yrs, no borescope allowed. It ran smooth, trust him.
So you need to temper your expectations with buyers. These crazy sellers make what should be a reasonable process ddifficult. Distrust abounds and if you want it gone, you gotta work with the fella.
 
wheaties said:
I'm the other side, I don't trust your mechanic and my own can't do due diligence in a single day.
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Why do you expect it to be one day? I paid hotel expenses and travel costs for my mechanic for several days to go to the airplane several states away.

My prebuy was relatively short (2 days) because I was primarily concerned about airframe corrosion/health. I knew I could deal with anything else.
 
wheaties said:
I'm the other side, ...

Here's what I've run into as a buyer, keep in mind these were all "great" planes:
  1. IRAN claimed as overhauled (turns out cracked block) and buyer didn't want us flying cause he didn't trust us. No running the llane on the ground either. Just accept his annual.
  2. No gear swings tests on a retract. No flying till I bought it. Trust the IA.
  3. No pulling up the interior to access the inspection plates. What if my mechanic damaged his plane?
  4. Engine that was run, not flown, for 45hrs past 15yrs, no borescope allowed. It ran smooth, trust him.
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None of these restrictions by a seller are site dependent. Bottom line, don't turn your airplane over to someone else. A prebuy mechanic should come to your site at the buyer's cost.

I would recommend a pre-buy agreement that states who is responsible for what. For example, the buyer is responsible for paying the mechanic even if they decide not to buy the airplane. The buyer is responsible for the work their mechanic does or fails to do, such as putting the plane back together. Even at your site, if a mechanic found something the buyer didn't like, the buyer could stop all work with your airplane open and refuse to pay the mechanic and you'd be stuck in pretty much the same situation, although you'd have the plane where your mechanic can put it back together.
 
Wow, we are buying a plan 1,652NM away and flying our guy to do the pre-buy. Kinda hard to believe that your buyer is asking to have it moved when he is so close
 
When my old 172 was sold, the east coast buyer and I agreed that a respected Cessna dealer/FAA repair station would do the pre-purchase inspection. Neither of us had a relationship with the dealer. The inspection revealed a few minor squawks but nothing affecting airworthiness, and the buyer agreed my mechanic (A&P/IA) could fix the squawks at my expense. After the paperwork was done, I flew wit the buyer as far as Albuquerque where a friend of his met us and continued the flight with him back to New Jersey.

Everybody was happy.
 
Utah-Jay said:
Wow, we are buying a plan 1,652NM away and flying our guy to do the pre-buy. Kinda hard to believe that your buyer is asking to have it moved when he is so close
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It can work fine either way. Getting hung up on where the pre-purchase inspection is performed isn't necessary. What's important is what are the terms and conditions agreed to.

When I bought my Aztec I had it flown from Springfield, Missouri to Tulsa for the pre-purchase inspection. But there was a conditional purchase & sale agreement in place and a good deposit in escrow, subject only to the results of the inspection. The flight allowed all the systems & avionics to be tested, including the autopilot, and the buyer's representation of the plane was accurate. Straight forward close.

When I've sold any of my airplanes I've been as helpful as practical with scan copies of logbooks, lots of pictures, demonstration flight if the buyer made the effort to come to my airport. But the one thing I will never allow is a single fastener to be removed for a pre-purchase inspection before a conditional purchase & sale agreement and escrowed deposit is in place. I don't have time to waste having their mechanic take my airplane apart for people that aren't serious, committed buyers.
 
I would have thought avionics, autopilot etc.... would be tested by the buyer on a flight with the seller. guess I never thought of having a random mechanic test that stuff in a 'pre purchase inspection slash flight' kind of thing. are people doing that?
 
GRG55 said:
It can work fine either way. Getting hung up on where the pre-purchase inspection is performed isn't necessary. What's important is what are the terms and conditions agreed to.
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It may matter for the question of a mechanics lien. While it depends on the state, typically the only way to enforce that kind of lien is by having possession of the aircraft/car. If the buyer walks away and decides to stiff his mechanic on the pre-buy fee, I rather have the plane in my hangar where I only need to put back the inspection plates rather than having to negotiate with someone an hour away. All the agreements in the world mean very little once things deteriorate to the point where someone gets emotional.
 
eman1200 said:
I would have thought avionics, autopilot etc.... would be tested by the buyer on a flight with the seller. guess I never thought of having a random mechanic test that stuff in a 'pre purchase inspection slash flight' kind of thing. are people doing that?
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Yes, people do that.
Where did you get the impression the mechanic I selected to do the test flight and pre-purchase was "random"? o_O

Seller couldn't fly the plane - lost his medical, hence reason for selling.
I was 11 time zones away working in Central Asia at the time I found the plane, after looking for the right one for months.
Even if I was there I still couldn't fly it myself - no multi.
 
Last edited:
GRG55 said:
Yes, people do that.
And where did you get the impression the mechanic I selected to do the test flight and pre-purchase was "random"?
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the 'random' wasn't directed at u, necessarily, although you did mention "Getting hung up on where the pre-purchase inspection is performed isn't necessary" which means at that point there is no mechanic designated at that time. guess what I meant was I don't know why someone would pay someone else to tell them if a radio works or if an AI works. seems like it would be easy enough for the buyer to even sit in the plane and test most of that stuff on the ground without paying someone to do it. unless, of course, the logistics are such that you just can't get to the plane at all, which is an entirely different thing altogether.
 
So a different spin from me - while I know it's a moot point for cgrab - because he got it worked out.

When I was working on 42W, I was in Colorado, the seller in south Dallas. He had his mechanic on his field that had done the annual and his field was a smaller one with no other shop. In north Dallas there is a shop that knows Commanders well. The seller and I agreed that he would fly his plane to the shop in north Dallas and that there would be a 3 day inspection period, the plane would not be flown, it would stay inside the hangar at all times, his log books would be locked away and the plane would be put back together for him on date and time X.

I flew into DFW and tried to be there for the bulk of the inspection period to ask questions, learn and understand. They went through the logs with me explaining entries and my questions - I really feel like I got well educated.

Overall it worked out very well for us both. His plane and logs were safe and protected. I had confidence that my ignorance and excitement hadn't taken me down a rabbit hole and he was able to sell his plane. 5 or 6 years later - the adventures of 42W continue and I couldn't be happier.

Dean
 
Goong through this right now so this thread it timely. Potential owner asked me to fly the plane 45 minutes away. I declined. He is welcome to bring a mechanic to my hangar.

On a side note to this - would it be appropriate to ask for a 10% deposit prior to allowing the pre buy?
 
k9medic said:
On a side note to this - would it be appropriate to ask for a 10% deposit prior to allowing the pre buy?
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It is common to have some earnest money put down with the escrow company. You will find some loud opinions on POA who proclaim that they would never do this , have never done it and accuse you of causing the end of capitalism. But yes a couple AMUs down prior to the aircraft going into prebuy is common.
 
Luigi said:
You could theoretically take the plane to him and his mechanic could find a "grounding," unairworthy problem.
Have them come to you, avoid any weirdness.
Click to expand...
Mechanics cannot "ground" an airplane they do not own. They can inform you that you have a problem they think makes the aircraft unairworthy, but they can't stop you from flying it away. The owner/operator is the entity that decides whether an aircraft they own or operate is airworthy. Disregarding the opinion of a certificated mechanic is the owner/operator's perogative. Now if the FAA decides that an aircraft is unairworthy, they can suspend the airworthiness certificate but that's the FAA, not just a A&P.
 
weilke said:
It is common to have some earnest money put down with the escrow company. You will find some loud opinions on POA who proclaim that they would never do this , have never done it and accuse you of causing the end of capitalism. But yes a couple AMUs down prior to the aircraft going into prebuy is common.
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I would certainly want some earnest money up front before I'd let Joe Mechanic take my plane apart.
 
Witmo said:
Mechanics cannot "ground" an airplane they do not own. They can inform you that you have a problem they think makes the aircraft unairworthy, but they can't stop you from flying it away. The owner/operator is the entity that decides whether an aircraft they own or operate is airworthy. Disregarding the opinion of a certificated mechanic is the owner/operator's perogative. Now if the FAA decides that an aircraft is unairworthy, they can suspend the airworthiness certificate but that's the FAA, not just a A&P.
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But they can inform FSDO of the problem.
 
He wants you to fly to him because it would be a big convenience to him and save him money while costing you time and money. If this was a buyers market you might have had to consider doing that. But its a seller's market, so tell him he and his mechanic have to travel to your plane. His mechanic might not want to do that, as he probably wants to have his tools handy, not travel, etc. The buyer can work that out if he wants, and will probably have to pay his mechanic more, will take more time out of his day, etc.
 
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