Fouling plugs during flight?

What is important is that when you peak the EGT as you adjust the mixture, you know where you are on the stoichiometric point. This lets you know where you are for efficiency and detonation potential.

When I lean too close to peak EGT, I get detonation. At least I think I do. Sharp raps in my seat frame, irregular, 2 or 3 per second. Enriching to drop temp by 50 degrees F makes it go away. Can you suggest a better procedure to avoid this? Should I be leaning further instead of enriching?
 
At high power settings you want to stay away from the peak EGT (especially on the slightly rich side). Once you're at recommended cruise, you can set the mixture wherever you like.

I'll concede the Mike Busch procedure mentioned earlier probably works. I just bring back the fuel flow to a nominal setting (many FF gauges are marked for this setting anyhow, by altitude) while climbing. At cruise, I'll go LOP with the analyzer, releaning with major altitude change. It doesn't seem that the MB method is particularly easier or advantageous unless you spend a lot of time in the climb.
 
every time i read this discussion it gives me a headache .. so at cruise i fly at 60 % power and leave the red knob where it burns the least amount of fuel :happydance:
 
every time i read this discussion it gives me a headache .. so at cruise i fly at 60 % power and leave the red knob where it burns the least amount of fuel :happydance:
That's actually a very good point. To some degree it becomes like many other things where the availability of more accurate tools leads to measuring football fields with a micrometer. I recall first seeing it for the first time maybe 20 years ago, watching a student doing a runup using a digital RPM gauge. Took forever to get exactly 1700 RPM.
 
When I lean too close to peak EGT, I get detonation. At least I think I do. Sharp raps in my seat frame, irregular, 2 or 3 per second. Enriching to drop temp by 50 degrees F makes it go away. Can you suggest a better procedure to avoid this? Should I be leaning further instead of enriching?

Start by watching these:


People may agree or disagree with the content, but they give good information and background for you to formulate your own opinions and/or perform more research...
 
Start by watching these:


People may agree or disagree with the content, but they give good information and background for you to formulate your own opinions and/or perform more research...

I appreciate your sharing those resources, but Geez, do I really have to watch THREE HOURS of video? :eek:

I just wanna know if I pushed the mixture control the wrong way when I got detonation.
 
I appreciate your sharing those resources, but Geez, do I really have to watch THREE HOURS of video? :eek:

I just wanna know if I pushed the mixture control the wrong way when I got detonation.
I don't recall much on detonation, but if you watch, setting the speed to 1.5 is a must. After you get used to that, you can sometimes push to 1.75.
 
I appreciate your sharing those resources, but Geez, do I really have to watch THREE HOURS of video? :eek:

I just wanna know if I pushed the mixture control the wrong way when I got detonation.

IIRC the majority of the videos are Q&A. Speeding it up is a great suggestion!
 
Where did I say anything about EGT? I agree climbing full rich reduces power and lengthens the time in climb, but given the choice of running cylinders at 400°F for 10 minutes or 430°F for 8 minutes, I'll take the full rich climb...

I read your post wrong as you do state you are using CHT in the climb. If however you must stay full rich to keep your CHT’s to 400 I would spend some time checking all your baffles and double check the timing on both mags.
 
I read your post wrong as you do state you are using CHT in the climb. If however you must stay full rich to keep your CHT’s to 400 I would spend some time checking all your baffles and double check the timing on both mags.

No worries! Have checked the baffles. I guess I could check the timing, but... This is a Skyhawk with an Air Plains O-360 conversion. I spoke to someone in the Air Plains engineering department and he told me I could expect to see 425°F - 430°F in climb. I have also heard that engines running hot is not an uncommon occurrence for Skyhawks. I had a Maple Leaf exhaust fairing installed and now I'm seeing CHT's right at 400°F on the hottest cylinders...
 
When I lean too close to peak EGT, I get detonation. At least I think I do. Sharp raps in my seat frame, irregular, 2 or 3 per second. Enriching to drop temp by 50 degrees F makes it go away. Can you suggest a better procedure to avoid this? Should I be leaning further instead of enriching?

If you are actually getting detonation at cruise power settings leaning something is very wrong. You did not put what type engine or fuel used but regardless I would ground the aircraft and at a minimum borescope the cylinders and check ignition timing. Even short periods of detonation can cause extensive engine damage. Ignition timing way off is about the only way to detonate a normally aspirated engine running 100LL.
 
So, correct me if I’m wrong, but just to clarify - at 75% or less, you can set the mixture control as lean as you want (as long as the engine runs smoothly) and you can’t damage anything (valves, cylinders etc.) ?

Generally, I always fly at 65%, whether I’m flying down low or up at altitude. So, whether or not I’m at 50F ROP or 200F ROP, I’m not causing any harm other than using excess fuel? If I’m flying around at 150F - 200F ROP am I able to foul plugs by being too rich?
 
When I lean too close to peak EGT, I get detonation. At least I think I do. Sharp raps in my seat frame, irregular, 2 or 3 per second. Enriching to drop temp by 50 degrees F makes it go away. Can you suggest a better procedure to avoid this? Should I be leaning further instead of enriching?
That might be lean afterfiring, an explosion in the exhaust. It will rap on the belly. Do it at night and you might see the flash as it does that.
Detonation is hard to hear in aircraft. There's too much other noise.
 
@RyanB , here is a really good article from Shell concerning fouling when rich at high power settings:

https://www.shell.com/business-cust...ent these,this compound is Ethylene Dibromide.

TL;DR: Avgas contains a lead scavenging chemical called Ethylene Dibromide. This compound is only active at higher combustion temperatures, and it keeps the lead gaseous so deposits don't form. The article implies that at about 1800rpm is when the temps are high enough for the lead to be scavenged. Below this, IE, ground ops, one needs to lean to control lead deposits.
 
So, correct me if I’m wrong, but just to clarify - at 75% or less, you can set the mixture control as lean as you want (as long as the engine runs smoothly) and you can’t damage anything (valves, cylinders etc.) ?

That's what Lycoming says in their engine operation manual.

Generally, I always fly at 65%, whether I’m flying down low or up at altitude. So, whether or not I’m at 50F ROP or 200F ROP, I’m not causing any harm other than using excess fuel? If I’m flying around at 150F - 200F ROP am I able to foul plugs by being too rich?

It may depend. If combustion temperatures are low enough at the richer mixture, there is the risk of lead deposit accumulation from all the excess fuel passing through the engine. That could lead to eventual plug fouling.

I guess the larger question is what is the motivation to run the engine at other than best economy or best power at cruise? Especially at a somewhat conservative cruise setting (65%).
 
So If I’m flying around at 150F - 200F ROP am I able to foul plugs by being too rich?
Yup. Some engines are worse than others, too.
I installed UREM37BY plugs in any engine for which they were approved. The extended electrodes are very resistant to fouling. Too many folks keep installing the same old 38s or 40s because that's what was in there.
 
@RyanB
think about the red box, that disappears around 60% power. OR you can go with Fine Wire and not worried about fowling at all :d

Note, they still get some lead deposits.

nice long weekend read : https://www.lycoming.com/sites/default/files/O-HO-IO-HIO-AIO & TIO-360 Oper Manual 60297-12.pdf
Lycoming says that with their normally-aspirated engines you can do whatever you like with the mixture at 75% or below.

The 37BY plugs are better than fine-wires for avoiding fouling. They don't have the deep well that fills up with carbon and lead deposits that eventually pile up enough to short the electrode.

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The extra length is why they can't be used in some engines. Pistons would hit them. And the threads are too short for the thicker heads on larger engines.

Application chart: http://www.aircraftspecialties.aero/content/TempestAppChart.pdf
 
I guess the larger question is what is the motivation to run the engine at other than best economy or best power at cruise? Especially at a somewhat conservative cruise setting (65%).
I run mostly at 60% ... simply because i have no where to go and all day to get there. so the question.... does running at lower power help with longevity of the engine? not talking about pipeline patrol that flies 8 hours every day, talking about general spam can drivers that flies 50-75-100 hrs /year
 
I run mostly at 60% ... simply because i have no where to go and all day to get there. so the question.... does running at lower power help with longevity of the engine? not talking about pipeline patrol that flies 8 hours every day, talking about general spam can drivers that flies 50-75-100 hrs /year
Might depend in winter if you actually get the engine hot enough to fully dry out all the moisture on each flight. My O-200 stays super cold in the winter and oil temps won’t rise to the middle of the green unless I do a 30 minute full power climb.
So more power uses some more fuel, but temps can’t be too high in there.
 
Might depend in winter if you actually get the engine hot enough to fully dry out all the moisture on each flight. My O-200 stays super cold in the winter and oil temps won’t rise to the middle of the green unless I do a 30 minute full power climb.
So more power uses some more fuel, but temps can’t be too high in there.
You need some winter fronts for that airplane. Too much cooling air going through the cowl. If you took a rocker cover off after a flight in that weather you might find lots of water droplets in it. The oil on the dipstick might look like a latte. We had a Citabria with an O-235 that had persistent winter problems that way, and it ran too cool even in the summertime. We left the oil cooler blocking plate on year-round to help reduce crankcase condensation.
 
The 37BY plugs are better than fine-wires for avoiding fouling. They don't have the deep well that fills up with carbon and lead deposits that eventually pile up enough to short the electrode.

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The copper washers are installed backwards :devil::devil:
 
Might depend in winter if you actually get the engine hot enough to fully dry out all the moisture on each flight. My O-200 stays super cold in the winter and oil temps won’t rise to the middle of the green unless I do a 30 minute full power climb.
So more power uses some more fuel, but temps can’t be too high in there.

i am not worried about that, but as Dan suggested may be look at installing winterization plates? my O360 gets ample hot in the power setting i mentioned. oil is between 180-200 and cylinder head between 320-350 range when i cruise, and it gets plenty cold up here. there are times when i struggle to go above 160 degrees, when it gets below 20... these days i just stay at home on those days lol
 
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