Forward slip

[Captain]

For me to get into a 2,400' strip I'm not looking at crab or slip. I'd need a 45 to 90 degree glide path to stick it in there!

 

[N1347B]

For me to get into a 2,400' strip I'm not looking at crab or slip. I'd need a 45 to 90 degree glide path to stick it in there!

We've been invited to a fly-in event at a 1500 ft strip later in the Spring. Unless the approaches are clear, it's not a comfortable landing site for my 8E. No amount of slip will make it better. Stall is stall and mine stalls too high with no flaps.

Perhaps, the moral of this thread is know your limitations and the limitations of your airplane.

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

 

[alfadog]

We've been invited to a fly-in event at a 1500 ft strip later in the Spring. Unless the approaches are clear, it's not a comfortable landing site for my 8E. No amount of slip will make it better. Stall is stall and mine stalls too high with no flaps.

Perhaps, the moral of this thread is know your limitations and the limitations of your airplane.

Deb


1948 Luscombe 8E
"Lester"

I would venture to say that is the moral of every thread. If not, then it should be

 

[Captain]

...and don't be uncoordinated below recovery altitude?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Wow, late to this but what a thread.

I kind of hate to say I've slipped "several" times since getting my cert last year because I've done it when I was high on final and had a very long runway with time to fix my altitude problem. Some may say "you should have gone around".

The other slipping, well, I've rarely seen any crosswind conditions. Wish I had more practice. Landing on Monday of last week the AWOS told me I'd be using runway 11 (we normally use 29). The AWOS said winds were gusting 160 degrees to 19 knots which was really bad since it was only my 4th flight in the little 150 and I had flown long enough I just wanted to land (worried about fuel, just being conservative really). I warned my non pilot passenger, who had never seen a go around, that "this might not work" and "I may choose to take off again right before we land." It was not pretty - and really I have no idea if I did it right or wrong - but the owner of the flight school says I didn't break the 150. My passenger said it was a "firm" landing (well he called it bouncy, but bounce means something entirely different to pilots, like a balloon, and I didn't do that).

 

[alfadog]

Wow, late to this but what a thread.

I kind of hate to say I've slipped "several" times since getting my cert last year because I've done it when I was high on final and had a very long runway with time to fix my altitude problem. Some may say "you should have gone around".

The other slipping, well, I've rarely seen any crosswind conditions. Wish I had more practice. Landing on Monday of last week the AWOS told me I'd be using runway 11 (we normally use 29). The AWOS said winds were gusting 160 degrees to 19 knots which was really bad since it was only my 4th flight in the little 150 and I had flown long enough I just wanted to land (worried about fuel, just being conservative really). I warned my non pilot passenger, who had never seen a go around, that "this might not work" and "I may choose to take off again right before we land." It was not pretty - and really I have no idea if I did it right or wrong - but the owner of the flight school says I didn't break the 150. My passenger said it was a "firm" landing (well he called it bouncy, but bounce means something entirely different to pilots, like a balloon, and I didn't do that).

Hi Kimberly. Get with a CFI and go find some crosswinds!

I love to practice my xwind landings, something about controlling the airplane that I love. See my YouTube channel for some challenging work in a taildragger at F45. X51, near me, has two paved runways 90-degrees to one another (they do not intersect) and is uncontrolled. I go down and do some short field work on the "preferred" then practice xwind on the other.

Last week I was there in the Luscombe, doing xwind landings on 36 and a student from one of the schools at KTMB comes on the CTAF, "we are landing on 10". "That is good to know", says I. "No, I mean we are using 10", he says. "Well", says I, "I think you should go right on using it. I am using 36." I think I am about to get in trouble again for my "attitude"

But seriously, get out there and practice and if you can get some time in a taildragger, your stick and rudder skills will be lightyears advanced. Next best thing would be a CFI with lots of tailwheel instruction time in your normal trainer.

 

[jpower]

Hi Kimberly. Get with a CFI and go find some crosswinds!

I love to practice my xwind landings, something about controlling the airplane that I love. See my YouTube channel for some challenging work in a taildragger at F45. X51, near me, has two paved runways 90-degrees to one another (they do not intersect) and is uncontrolled. I go down and do some short field work on the "preferred" then practice xwind on the other.

Some of the best practice for crosswind is to find a good CFI, a towered airport with a crosswind runway that's not too busy, and ask for low passes on the crosswind runway. I did those down 5500 ft of runway a few times. It really shows the sort of control inputs you need in a crosswind, and because you can hold it for a long time, you can see what how your airplane behaves in a crosswind. You also get a full runway's worth of crosswind practice instead of just final approach (or even just the round out / kick out). Not to mention that it's definitely fun .

 

[zaitcev]

ask for low passes on the crosswind runway.

A low pass may be a good idea, but it reminds me about that video where the student stalled it, wheelbarrowed into runway, and the nosewheel collapsed. It was preceded by a tl;dr rolling text with student making excuses and offering explanations that it wasn't a stall. The CFI must be on the ball throughout the maneuver.

 

[jpower]

A low pass may be a good idea, but it reminds me about that video where the student stalled it, wheelbarrowed into runway, and the nosewheel collapsed. It was preceded by a tl;dr rolling text with student making excuses and offering explanations that it wasn't a stall. The CFI must be on the ball throughout the maneuver.

COMPLETELY agree with you. I think I've even seen that video. I would never, EVER do it without a CFI that I knew was 100% on the ball. Mine was, and it was a fantastic learning experience for me. It's obviously a maneuver that requires extreme care, though, and it should be treated with the respect it deserves.

 

[Henning]

I do not think I would slip in a base to final situation.

Left aileron, right rudder, base to final...what could go wrong? Oh yeah, a cross controlled stall. All you're missing is a slight centerline overshoot and now you get to pull up and die.

Why give away 2 of the 3? To lose 300 to 400 feet? Howz about you just open the pattern a tad or start the descent earlier? There's my unsolicited 2 cents.

Why not? If I'm hot over the runway I'll kick in a slip to take off some speed so I don't burn up so much runway. Always safer to get rid of the energy before the wheels touch. A plane flies the same at 2' as it does at 2000'.

 

[Henning]

Wow, late to this but what a thread.

I kind of hate to say I've slipped "several" times since getting my cert last year because I've done it when I was high on final and had a very long runway with time to fix my altitude problem. Some may say "you should have gone around".

Wanna know how to make the plane drop faster than in a slip without having to put the plane into uncomfortable (for most passengers) attitudes? Pull the throttle, pull the nose up until the stall horn sounds and hold it there. It will smoothly and calmly sink like a rock. When you get down to your glide slope, just drop the nose to slow your sink rate and accelerate to flare speed. If you're already low, just add throttle to arrest your sink rate.

 

[Tracey]

Pull the throttle, pull the nose up until the stall horn sounds and hold it there. It will smoothly and calmly sink like a rock. When you get down to your glide slope, just drop the nose to slow your sink rate and accelerate to flare speed. If you're already low, just add throttle to arrest your sink rate.

Wow, a Henning trick that I've actually done! (Well, I can't say I've done it to the warning horn, but I have pulled the throttle and pulled the nose up).

My goal in doing this was to lose airspeed, not altitude-- although obviously it does both.

 

[alfadog]

Some of the best practice for crosswind is to find a good CFI, a towered airport with a crosswind runway that's not too busy, and ask for low passes on the crosswind runway. I did those down 5500 ft of runway a few times. It really shows the sort of control inputs you need in a crosswind, and because you can hold it for a long time, you can see what how your airplane behaves in a crosswind. You also get a full runway's worth of crosswind practice instead of just final approach (or even just the round out / kick out). Not to mention that it's definitely fun .

I like to do that exercise at KTNT, an "abandoned" (except it is staffed and maintained) jetport with a 10499 x 150 ft runway and no tower. Very little traffic as you need a permit to touch your wheels but the permit is free to GA.

All due respect, but any pilot that is not willing to try a low pass, in landing configuration, 5' feet off the runway should not be flying an airplane solo, IMHO. What are you doing when you flare for touchdown? Are you telling me that you are in some extreme danger of balling up when you flare? If so, get that CFI in the airplane quick! If you think flaring for touchdown is something you can do with relative safety and control then add a bit of power and drag it along. Keep playing with the power and you will discover how much it takes to hold it in the flare and just off the asphalt. But do it first with a CFI if you like (and I think you should); my point is that if you are not competent to try it alone, God help you if you bounce a landing; you will be clueless. I am not advocating that you should do something you are totally uncomfortable with but saying that if you are totally uncomfortable with the thought of this then that is a sign that you need some training pronto. And of course, as always, this is the rhetorical "you" and is not referring to present company (substitute "one", I just do not like to write that way).

 

[alfadog]

Wanna know how to make the plane drop faster than in a slip without having to put the plane into uncomfortable (for most passengers) attitudes? Pull the throttle, pull the nose up until the stall horn sounds and hold it there. It will smoothly and calmly sink like a rock. When you get down to your glide slope, just drop the nose to slow your sink rate and accelerate to flare speed. If you're already low, just add throttle to arrest your sink rate.

Hmm, don't know how low you would carry this and you don't say but I would rather not be just above a stall anywhere between 5 feet and 1000 feet. If I need to lose that altitude then give me the slip and the screaming passengers

 

[ebetancourt]

This thread is really hilarious. Airplanes only stall at critical AOA, they fly the same at 2' as they do at 2,000' and they descend faster at any speed other than minimum sink rate speed. So an airplane can slip cross-controlled without coming anywhere near a stall at any airspeed. Just don't ask the wing to create lift. In a hammerhead turn, you get an airplane to zero airspeed without a stall, because you are not asking the wing to create lift. Another example is knife-edge flight; huge bank but no turn, no Gs, the ultimate slip, and no stall.

I am not recommending flying super slow or slipping at 90* on short final. Just trying to clarify. In a slip being used to lose altitude, you really don't want/need to ask the wing for lift so you are probably further away from a stall than you are wings level at the same airspeed, even in a serious bank. If you are slipping in a 60* bank and pulling 2Gs something is seriously wrong.

The transitions take practice, and are potentially a source for problems, but slips are just another tool in the flight bag. It's sad how many pilots haven't been provided this tool.

 

[dmccormack]

Hmm, don't know how low you would carry this and you don't say but I would rather not be just above a stall anywhere between 5 feet and 1000 feet. If I need to lose that altitude then give me the slip and the screaming passengers

What's 1.3 Vso?

And -- at what speed do you land?


I'm typically far below published stall speed 1-5' AGL (in the Chief I'm touching down in the low 30 MPH range, stall speed is 38).

Keep in mind lift is increased due to ground effect (as long as your are 1/2 wingspan AGL) and so you can actually still fly at 38 when the published stall speed is 42.

 

[Henning]

Hmm, don't know how low you would carry this and you don't say but I would rather not be just above a stall anywhere between 5 feet and 1000 feet. If I need to lose that altitude then give me the slip and the screaming passengers

Why not? It's not like planes accidentally stall without warning. Plane flies the same at 1 foot as it does at 1000'. What is the difference in flying Minimum Controllable Airspeed at 3500' or 350' considering you'll be doing it with the throttle closed and minimal prop and torque effects to work against?

In most planes I try to be stable on my proper slope by 100'.

 

[alfadog]

What's 1.3 Vso?

And -- at what speed do you land?


I'm typically far below published stall speed 1-5' AGL (in the Chief I'm touching down in the low 30 MPH range, stall speed is 38).

Keep in mind lift is increased due to ground effect (as long as your are 1/2 wingspan AGL) and so you can actually still fly at 38 when the published stall speed is 42.

Did you read the post I was responding to?

Wanna know how to make the plane drop faster than in a slip without having to put the plane into uncomfortable (for most passengers) attitudes? Pull the throttle, pull the nose up until the stall horn sounds and hold it there. It will smoothly and calmly sink like a rock. When you get down to your glide slope, just drop the nose to slow your sink rate and accelerate to flare speed. If you're already low, just add throttle to arrest your sink rate.

1.3 Vso is not "just above a stall" in my book. Do I understand you to believe there is nothing wrong with descending at a high rate with the stall horn blowing and 200 feet AGL?

1 - 5 feet AGL is specifically not what I was referring to. I will include ground effect for good measure. I am talking, say, 200 feet.

 

[alfadog]

Why not? It's not like planes accidentally stall without warning. Plane flies the same at 1 foot as it does at 1000'.../QUOTE]

This is actually a bit humorous: "It's not like planes accidentally stall without warning." And what do you call the stall warning, that, in your scenario, has been blowing continuously?

Why not? Decending at maybe 800 fpm or better; 100 feet AGL; stall horn blowing. Add a thermal; add a bit of wind shear; a gust of wind; and you are now stalled or about to. Sure you can add power and recover before you hit. If you can do it in about 5 seconds and 50 feet. But the purpose of 1.3 Vso is to give you a buffer against stalling the airplane so close to the ground that recovery before impact is questionable. Why give that away so low to the ground?

 

[Henning]

Why not? It's not like planes accidentally stall without warning. Plane flies the same at 1 foot as it does at 1000'.../QUOTE]

This is actually a bit humorous: "It's not like planes accidentally stall without warning." And what do you call the stall warning, that, in your scenario, has been blowing continuously?

Why not? Decending at maybe 800 fpm or better; 100 feet AGL; stall horn blowing. Add a thermal; add a bit of wind shear; a gust of wind; and you are now stalled or about to. Sure you can add power and recover before you hit. If you can do it in about 5 seconds and 50 feet. But the purpose of 1.3 Vso is to give you a buffer against stalling the airplane so close to the ground that recovery before impact is questionable. Why give that away so low to the ground?

?? Why is that humorous? You get the warning horn 5-7 kts above stall (DA-40s I've had sound 12kts above stall and had to tape the top of the flute hole to bring it down where it belonged so it wasn't screaming all the way down final). When the stall warning horn starts coming on you know you still have a safe buffer. If you oscillate your fingers on the yoke a bit you can make it 'chirp' so you know you're holding that speed without having to move your eyes inside. Then there is also the buffet as the next warning slowing down that you pick up in your finger tips. When you you feel the yoke start drumming in your finger tips you just ease off until the drumming stops.

If you can fly Minimum Controllable Airspeed with the horn blaring at 3500' (which you should be able to do with no issues per PP-PTS) you can do it at 35', the only difference is in perception and options on an engine failure. If you're hot and high on final already, the last is not an issue.

Have you practiced Falling Leaf Stalls yet? They're great for demonstrating that just because a plane is stalled does not mean it's not controllable and also gets rid of the silly fears surrounding stalls.

All you have to do to recover from a stall is to release back pressure, all you have to do to keep a wing from dropping is step on a rudder, that's it.

 

[alfadog]

Have you practiced Falling Leaf Stalls yet? They're great for demonstrating that just because a plane is stalled does not mean it's not controllable and also gets rid of the silly fears surrounding stalls.

All you have to do to recover from a momentary stall is to release back pressure, that's it.

I absolutely do leaf stalls. I just tend to do my stalling a bit higher. Except for landing flare, of course.

 

[dmccormack]

Did you read the post I was responding to?

1.3 Vso is not "just above a stall" in my book. Do I understand you to believe there is nothing wrong with descending at a high rate with the stall horn blowing and 200 feet AGL?

1 - 5 feet AGL is specifically not what I was referring to. I will include ground effect for good measure. I am talking, say, 200 feet.

Yes, i did.

When I slip I don't hear a stall horn because I don't have one in the Chief. back then pilots had to feel the airplane and not rely on gadgets.



But back to Henning's post-- The stall horn on most GA airplanes is a small tab that is adjusted to make a contact or a sound when the air comes from the opposite direction of normal flow, therefore indicating that AoA is excessive.

Few GA SEL have calibrated stall warning devices -- the tab is in place, tested with a suction tube, and only a test flight can gauge how "close it is the stall."

Cessna had a AD about Stall Warning and it recommends:

Thereafter, flight test the aircraft to assure that the stall warning horn sounds at 5 to 10 mph above the stall warning speed and if not, recalibrate in accordance with the provisions of the afore cited paragraph of the Cessna 100 Series Service Manual or paragraph 15-41 of the Model 177 Service Manual.

So it's close enough for government work, but not a calibrated, absolute definition of stall/not-stalled.

This is why you often hear it chirping or see the light blink on final in winds. You're not "on the edge of stall" -- the wing at that point had a gust of air that disturbed the indicator enough to make contact or create the woooo tone.

So if you pull the nose up until you hear a buzz you're probably 5-10 MPH above stall.

Maybe. If it's been calibrated.

So, how can you be sure? Go out and do stalls and watch the ASI and see how many MPH/Knots above actual stall you start hearing or seeing the warning.

That way when you really need to slow it up and get it down into a tight spot (say, after an engine out), you'll know that you can slow it up, slip it hard, and get it in there safely.

 

[alfadog]

So if you pull the nose up until you hear a buzz you're probably 5-10 MPH above stall.

Maybe. If it's been calibrated.

Calibration and lack of calibration works both ways as I am sure you are well aware. The recommendation was to descend with the stall horn consistently on, not triggered by random wind. If calibrated is 5 - 10 above stall then out of calibration can be 10 - 15 or zero, nada, nothing, above stall (or of course, anything else and one should find out but...)

So assuming we are in calibration and 5 mph above stall and we encounter a very minor bit of wind shear at 100 feet AGL and are now stalled at 100 feet AGL. Why play that game? But to each his own, as I should well know.

 

[dmccormack]

Calibration and lack of calibration works both ways as I am sure you are well aware. The recommendation was to descend with the stall horn consistently on, not triggered by random wind. If calibrated is 5 - 10 above stall then out of calibration can be 10 - 15 or zero, nada, nothing, above stall (or of course, anything else and one should find out but...)

So assuming we are in calibration and 5 mph above stall and we encounter a very minor bit of wind shear at 100 feet AGL and are now stalled at 100 feet AGL. Why play that game? But to each his own, as I should well know.

A few considerations....

• Wind shear at 100' AGL is rarely an issue in the typical light GA SEL
• I'm not recommending the horn stay on during the entire slip, just it's ok if it chirps to confirm you're slow and then slip with as low a forward speed as possible.

 

[Henning]

So assuming we are in calibration and 5 mph above stall and we encounter a very minor bit of wind shear at 100 feet AGL and are now stalled at 100 feet AGL. Why play that game? But to each his own, as I should well know.

Why slip? Same reason; It's no big deal.

 

[alfadog]

A few considerations....

• Wind shear at 100' AGL is rarely an issue in the typical light GA SEL
• I'm not recommending the horn stay on during the entire slip, just it's ok if it chirps to confirm you're slow and then slip with as low a forward speed as possible.

• That is because we are "supposed" to be at 1.3 Vso. At 1.05 Vso, even GA needs to be concerned. And, as you know, wind shear is any interface between winds with different velocity vectors, even if only a mild 5 kt difference in CAVU.
• We are discussing a different recommendation where the horn does stay on. If you know how far above stall the horn is sounding in your airplane when in a slip (and that is probably different from when not in a slip), and you strike me as someone who would, then I can understand your being fine with a chirp.

 

[Captain]

I think the point was raised by a suggestion to fly the length of the runway to practice crosswind. That in and of itself is fine. But then someone brought up a guy who stalled and nosed in. Well, don't stall. You wouldn't practice stalls at 50' over a farmers field so why would you over a runway? At some point along the runway flyby there isn't enough left to land and at that point the runway ceases to be a runway.

If I were to fly the length of the runway at 5 to 10' AGL then I'd make dang sure I was at my ref speed the whole time. Ref speed for me has always been the 1.3 Vso that's been discussed.

 

[alfadog]

I think the point was raised by a suggestion to fly the length of the runway to practice crosswind. That in and of itself is fine. But then someone brought up a guy who stalled and nosed in. Well, don't stall. You wouldn't practice stalls at 50' over a farmers field so why would you over a runway? At some point along the runway flyby there isn't enough left to land and at that point the runway ceases to be a runway.

If I were to fly the length of the runway at 5 to 10' AGL then I'd make dang sure I was at my ref speed the whole time. Ref speed for me has always been the 1.3 Vso that's been discussed.

And what happens if you stall the airplane over the runway at 5 feet AGL at the most (the point of the exercise is to keep it 1 - 5 feet off)? Considering that you had zero decent rate when you stalled, i.e. flying along the runway centerline practicing wind correction or whatever? What happens?

 

[Henning]

If I were to fly the length of the runway at 5 to 10' AGL then I'd make dang sure I was at my ref speed the whole time. Ref speed for me has always been the 1.3 Vso that's been discussed.

Even on a short field where it's supposed to be 1.2Vso? Do you calculate what Vso is for your condition, or do you use the Vso given by the manual for full gross condition?

 

[dell30rb]

Even on a short field where it's supposed to be 1.2Vso? Do you calculate what Vso is for your condition, or do you use the Vso given by the manual for full gross condition?

Considering he flies jets i'm guessing its calculated

 

[Captain]

I think the point was raised by a suggestion to fly the length of the runway to practice crosswind. That in and of itself is fine. But then someone brought up a guy who stalled and nosed in. Well, don't stall. You wouldn't practice stalls at 50' over a farmers field so why would you over a runway? At some point along the runway flyby there isn't enough left to land and at that point the runway ceases to be a runway.

If I were to fly the length of the runway at 5 to 10' AGL then I'd make dang sure I was at my ref speed the whole time. Ref speed for me has always been the 1.3 Vso that's been discussed.

And what happens if you stall the airplane over the runway at 5 feet AGL at the most (the point of the exercise is to keep it 1 - 5 feet off)? Considering that you had zero decent rate when you stalled, i.e. flying along the runway centerline practicing wind correction or whatever? What happens?

Well, typically a stall brings about a pitch down and you could end up in the wheel barrow situation brought up before. Stalling with the mains on or near the ground is called landing. If it's intentional then it should probably happen in the beginning portion of the runway. If you're doing a low pass and it's unintentional and happens past the point where you can safely stop the plane with remaining runway then it may not be such a good thing.

With that said, if I were to do a low pass I'd make sure my speed was such that that stall thing I spoke of didn't happen. 1.3 Vso sounds good to me.

What is 1.3 Vso? Well, small planes have it listed in the POH and that is for max gross if I'm not mistaken. That is a convenience thing. The true 1.3 Vso would be a changing thing based of weight. I'd use a true ref speed when landing, however who cares? We're talking about just flying down the runway for training reasons and a couple knots extra isn't going to change the 'feel' that much. For training in a small GA plane I think I'd just use the published max gross ref speed and call it a day. If I'm sticking it into a true short field I would calculate an actual ref speed right after I made sure I could also get 'out' of said field with planned weight and conditions.

 

[Captain]

Even on a short field where it's supposed to be 1.2Vso? Do you calculate what Vso is for your condition, or do you use the Vso given by the manual for full gross condition?

I never use 1.2 Vso. I calculate every landing and use 1.3 Vso. My technique is to fly the approach at maneuvering speed (ref plus 10) and once on final allow the SIC to slow to ref if he wants. Me, I fly the ref plus ten right to the fence and transition to ref in the flare. This arrests the descent and has me right where I want to be for main touchdown. The result is a smooth (normally) landing. Do I ever bang it on? Sometimes, but I get the best consistency with that technique. If the field is short I do the same thing but make sure I'm at ref over the fence. That way the flare bleeds off 'flying' speed and makes for a very precise spot landing. I can and do hit the numbers when needed.

 

[dmccormack]

...and thus we see the difference between larger aircraft and the typical GA SEL this thread had been about.

Larger aircraft require adherence to specific numbers.

Smaller craft have some numbers, but many (and in some cases all) have to be learned or extrapolated.

What is my exact speed at touchdown in a Cheif or C205 or 182 or EVSS?



Ummm.... something slow.

What's my short approach speed? It depends on the load and conditions, but:
Chief -- 45 MPH
C205 -- 75 MPH
C172 -- 65 KIAS
C150 -- 60 MPH
182 --70 KIAS
EVSS -- 55 KIAS

 

[flyingron]

Hopefully you know what the stall speed in calibrated airspeed is because the 1.2x/1.3x is based on that and then converted to indicated to compare with the ASI. Frankly, when Mr. Cessna says in the POH that the approach speed should be 55-65, then that's where I fly it.

 

[alfadog]

Well, typically a stall brings about a pitch down and you could end up in the wheel barrow situation brought up before. Stalling with the mains on or near the ground is called landing. If it's intentional then it should probably happen in the beginning portion of the runway. If you're doing a low pass and it's unintentional and happens past the point where you can safely stop the plane with remaining runway then it may not be such a good thing.

I know you fly jets but, as regards small airplanes, take it from someone that has stalled a bit high on more than one occasion :wink2:, it just comes down in a nose high attitude, there is no great drop-off of the nose in the vertical distance we are talking. No doubt, this might not be a maneuver you would fly in your airplane but, in the realm of training and trainers, this is useful and safe.

Because, as you said "Stalling with the mains on or near the ground is called landing".

All that happens if you get a bit slow is that your wheels touch. You add maybe 100 or 200 more rpm and continue. You are not far from lift-off speed so you continue until you figure that the time has come to put the power and climb out. Again, training and trainers, not jets, not multis. Doing this at 1.3 Vso defeats much of the purpose as a big part of it is learning to handle the airplane in the flare.

 

[Captain]

A low pass may be a good idea, but it reminds me about that video where the student stalled it, wheelbarrowed into runway, and the nosewheel collapsed. It was preceded by a tl;dr rolling text with student making excuses and offering explanations that it wasn't a stall. The CFI must be on the ball throughout the maneuver.

This was the post that brought up 'wheelbarrowing small planes'.

I know you fly jets but, as regards small airplanes, take it from someone that has stalled a bit high on more than one occasion :wink2:, it just comes down in a nose high attitude, there is no great drop-off of the nose in the vertical distance we are talking. No doubt, this might not be a maneuver you would fly in your airplane but, in the realm of training and trainers, this is useful and safe.

Because, as you said "Stalling with the mains on or near the ground is called landing".

All that happens if you get a bit slow is that your wheels touch. You add maybe 100 or 200 more rpm and continue. You are not far from lift-off speed so you continue until you figure that the time has come to put the power and climb out. Again, training and trainers, not jets, not multis. Doing this at 1.3 Vso defeats much of the purpose as a big part of it is learning to handle the airplane in the flare.

Why would anyone want to practice a prolonged flare down the runway AT stall or maybe 1 knot above it? What's to be gained? Want to practice flares? Great, get in the pattern and do landing after landing.

Want to practice holding the crosswind slip? That's what brought this up. Flying at a nice safe speed of 1.3 Vso isn't any different than ref or stall plus 1. What are the numbers? 62 knots instead of 58 knots? Are those 4 knots worth it?

 

[alfadog]

Why would anyone want to practice a prolonged flare down the runway AT stall or maybe 1 knot above it? What's to be gained? Want to practice flares? Great, get in the pattern and do landing after landing.

• Because practice makes perfect
• An ability to precisely handle the airplane during a phase of flight.
• Pattern: 7 seconds flare for 5 minute pattern. This technique: over 60 seconds flare for 5 minute pattern. Assuming we "Want to practice flares", which is the more effective use of aircraft and instructor (if present) time?

 

[dell30rb]

Why would anyone want to practice a prolonged flare down the runway AT stall or maybe 1 knot above it? What's to be gained? Want to practice flares? Great, get in the pattern and do landing after landing.

Cause its fun and good practice ? Additionally if it is gusty -windy you don't just come down and flare and plop on if a gust has kicked you off of the centerline or if you are in a bit of a crab. It makes sense here to add a little power, fly the plane for a few seconds right off of the runway, and when you're straight and on centerline, pull the power and let it down.

Obviously you are not at stall or one knot above it.

Lots of times if I am landing on a big runway and my exit is far down, i'll fly it about a foot off the runway for the 30 seconds or so it takes me to get there.. generally 5-10 kts above stall.. when the horn is squeaking on and off just a bit