formation flying?

Velocity173 said:
If you’re in airspace that requires it, and with operable transponders, then all aircraft should be squawking unless ATC directed (91.215).

Once you’ve contacted ATC, they determine if the wingmen squawk or not. Standard formation (< 1 mile & 100ft vert) , squawk standby to prevent overlap/ ring around. Non standard (>1 mile & 100 ft vert), either all squawk or lead and trail only. Depends on the controller & SOPs.
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I'll go reg crawling with you any time. I'm well aware of that requirement. Also familiar with the occasional contradictions in the FARs. I'm reminded of a similar incident at CSG. I knew the controller on the scope at the time. We either called him "Blackie" or Sir. He was a retired USAF fighter pilot and had a manner much like SSG Ermie, USMC ret. You know the guy in Full Metal Jacket. The 121st AHC (Soc Trang Tigers) showed up in formation. Lead didn't add "flight of 8" to his call up. All hands dialed in the code. Blackie went bananas. Needed to be hosed down. Lead then called for an IFR break-up. Things then went south. Nobody got hurt tho.

Vert, You and I have a bunch of hours and we are both ATPs with spotless records. The IFR supplement in the DOD FLIP tells you straight out NOT to have the herd behind you all squawking for just the reasons you stated. Yeah. I know FAA and military procedures are not the same. But that day we passed through KGPT's TRSA, I thought Blackie's son was on the scope. The blue sky just got bluer.

Bob
 
Maxnr said:
I'll go reg crawling with you any time. I'm well aware of that requirement. Also familiar with the occasional contradictions in the FARs. I'm reminded of a similar incident at CSG. I knew the controller on the scope at the time. We either called him "Blackie" or Sir. He was a retired USAF fighter pilot and had a manner much like SSG Ermie, USMC ret. You know the guy in Full Metal Jacket. The 121st AHC (Soc Trang Tigers) showed up in formation. Lead didn't add "flight of 8" to his call up. All hands dialed in the code. Blackie went bananas. Needed to be hosed down. Lead then called for an IFR break-up. Things then went south. Nobody got hurt tho.

Vert, You and I have a bunch of hours and we are both ATPs with spotless records. The IFR supplement in the DOD FLIP tells you straight out NOT to have the herd behind you all squawking for just the reasons you stated. Yeah. I know FAA and military procedures are not the same. But that day we passed through KGPT's TRSA, I thought Blackie's son was on the scope. The blue sky just got bluer.

Bob
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Well I don’t have an ATP, don’t have a bunch of hours and my record isn’t spotless...the rest is correct though. ;)


There’s always been confusion in formation squawks in both ATC and pilot side. All the civilian pilot has to go on is 91.215. That’s why I always say just comply with that in order to cover your butt. It would be nice if ATC policy carried over to the pilot side but it has yet to do that. It’s the usual left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. It wasn’t until a couple years ago did the FAA clarify formation squawks (below) for controllers.

Personally, when I worked approach it was easier to issue a traffic call on a string of 1200 codes not talking to me. Once in comms, then determine who to have squawk. Having said that, outside of an IFR formation, I couldn’t care less what a formation was squawking.

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Velocity173 said:
Actually did that once for a funeral fly over.
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My most recent formation flight was at the Memorial day dedication of a monument in Dublin, TX. I was lead.

We did the flyby at the briefed altitude and with a one rotor separation (!) and then did a break-up into a missing-man formation.

What I didn't plan on was my trail aircraft returning for a super-low flyover. He wanted to make sure they were familiar with the sound of freedom!
 
IK04 said:
My most recent formation flight was at the Memorial day dedication of a monument in Dublin, TX. I was lead.

We did the flyby at the briefed altitude and with a one rotor separation (!) and then did a break-up into a missing-man formation.

What I didn't plan on was my trail aircraft returning for a super-low flyover. He wanted to make sure they were familiar with the sound of freedom!
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One disk? You got balls man! I’m not big on these mixed ship funeral flyovers, especially if it’s a different company. Just too much of an unknown when dealing with different pilot backgrounds.

Doing multiship with a former military bud, I know their experience, I can anticipate their actions and we can pull off a safe flyover with a short brief. Some guy that has a work history of tours, LE or GoM and has no form experience, doing a funeral flyover is not the time to learn.
 
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