ForeFlight versions

[SkyhawkJ]

I’m gonna be getting my ppl soon and was wondering what version of ForeFlight you guys think is best for that stage of flying

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Just flying VFR? Basic or Basic Plus is all you need. If you need Canada, that's a $100/year add-on.

 

[TCABM]

As a student? Learn how to do it without an EFB.

 

[PaulS]

I have performance plus, I eased into that level over the years. I like it.

 

[SkyhawkJ]

I can kinda see why people might like to use paper charts and whatnot just cuz it’s a little more engaging than an efb. Personally though im always using ForeFlight for real operations. I’ve used the e6b a few times after the written but that was purely just for fun rather than utility. Never used it inflight.

 

[Racerx]

Out of curiosity, why?

For things like airport info, logbook, and weather briefings and radar, why would you use anything other than FF (or equivalent)?

Yes, you need to know how to manually do weight and balance, and how to manually assemble a flight plan, but once you know the concepts what good is there in beating your brains out with paper when there is current technology available to help?

Frankly, does anyone actually use a physical E6B or plotter after the day they pass the FAA written anymore? Anyone? Why would you?

Used my e6b for the checkride...but that's about it. Wish I was more versed in Foreflight as examiner wanted me to file a VFR flight plan. Used skyvector instead. I actually enjoy using paper maps for long xc planning. Perhaps I'm weird or nostalgic or an idiot. But I feel like I get a better grasp of things with paper as opposed to pinch and zoom

 

[Clip4]

I’m gonna be getting my ppl soon and was wondering what version of ForeFlight you guys think is best for that stage of flying

If you have made a brand decision, Basic meets will your needs until instrument training. There are less expensive products that will also meet your needs.

 

[Clip4]

As a student? Learn how to do it without an EFB.

Why? Do you also advise against electronic E6Bs?

 

[TCABM]

Out of curiosity, why?

For you and @Clip4.

As of post 3, my statement of as a student? Learn manually is predicated on the fact we have no idea where the OP is on their student pilot journey, so the advice to learn manual is based on the fact that no EFB is authorized for the written.

Going further, my philosophy of learn (and continue to practice) manual flight planning is fairly similar to why proofs are done in geometry; you know you got the right answer because you were able to cross-check it.

Now, once a PPL, sure, use an EFB to your heart’s content, like Tony the Tiger says, they’re grrrrreat. But understand their limitations. For example, unless you configure a 1800WXBRIEF account to integrate with your chose EFB, that self briefing on the efb only exists on your EFB. If the FAA (or NTSB) had a reason to check your work, they’d need access to that efb. But configuring 1800WXBRIEF correctly allows an audit trail to be created that verifies you did in fact get that briefing.

Now, for me I use my EFB’s web-based planner for most flights, then I print out it’s navlog and fill that out manually in flight simply to compare actual to plan and use that info to make decisions with. In flight, the EFB is primarily an ADS-B traffic amd weather display, then an approach plate display, and lastly a diver/re-plan tool.

As to brands, I tried FF, GP, Avare, FltPlanGo, and actually use iFlyEFB with Avare as my backup. That gives two efbs that works on both iOS and Android. One of those is free with free charts and both have all the features a VFR pilot needs and pretty much everything but PDCs/expected routing for the IFR pilot, but you can generally get expected routing for free off FlightAware anyways.

Now, it’s story time. Occasionally, tech doesn’t work, gets garbage inputs, or loses connectivity. Keeping the pencil sharp in manual flight planning is helpful in those cases.

 

[kaiser]

I did my PPL and flew pre IR with basic. Once I started my IR I added the next level to get geo-loc overlay so I could add situational awareness straight on approach plates.

 

[rockwoodrv9a]

I started with Basic and quickly upgraded to Performance Plus. I like the 3d showing the flight and the synthetic display. I was working on my license so I was a beginner and Foreflight was all new to me. I have Garmin G3X system and Garmin Pilot also. I probably will skip renewing the Garmin Pilot but keep the Foreflight when my subscription runs out. I just turned 300 hours on my plane and loving it!

 

[WDD]

After you learn how to do the weight and balance manually (and what arm, datum point, etc.) mean, as well as do a few manual Nav plans to know how those work, as well a know how to read a VFR sectional chart, as well.....

Then yes, get ForeFlight Basic Plus. You'll use it all the time to check the local weather, look at weather maps, forecasts, NOTAMs, TFRs, etc etc etc. AND if you have ADSB In in the plane you rent, you link ForeFlight to that transponder and get to see any traffic real time that is about to get too close.

As mentioned above, when you do IFR Training, you'll need to go to the next level to get approach plates that overlay the map.

 

[Brad Z]

I voted before I read your message. I use Pro, but basic will work just fine for what you're doing.

 

[Brad Z]

As a student? Learn how to do it without an EFB.

Can you even buy paper charts anymore?

10-15 years ago when EFBs started to became a thing, ForeFlight was the reward for passing your PP ride. Now I'm not sure you could find a CFI to talk you through paper chart flight planning.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

Was using Basic all through Private Pilot training and for years after. It wasn't until I started instrument training that I upgraded plans to get geo-referenced approach plates. For private, the value of Foreflight (coupled with a Sentry Mini I bought) was that I had ADS-B traffic and weather while flying. For private training, you don't really need those -- your CFI won't let you go out in any questionable conditions. But I trained in areas that had a SFRA, TFRs and Bravo shelves - so maintaining situation awareness was required to ensure I didn't bust airspace. This let me fly in training airplanes ranging from basic six-pack to g1000 while always knowing I could use my mounted iPhone to know where I was.

If you're away from urban areas, TFR's, bravo shelves ... you can get away with far less and not be distracted with stuff you don't need. Remember, FF doesn't help you learn the basics of flying. You've got to keep your eyes outside the airplane!

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Can you even buy paper charts anymore?

10-15 years ago when EFBs started to became a thing, ForeFlight was the reward for passing your PP ride. Now I'm not sure you could find a CFI to talk you through paper chart flight planning.

Yes, you can order charts online from several vendors or print them from a website. We teach our students how to flight plan using sectional charts, the E6B and telephone briefings, as it has been done for years. But we also encourage them to get an electronic app and learn how to use that as well.

 

[Clip4]

For you and @Clip4.

As of post 3, my statement of as a student? Learn manually is predicated on the fact we have no idea where the OP is on their student pilot journey, so the advice to learn manual is based on the fact that no EFB is authorized for the written.

Going further, my philosophy of learn (and continue to practice) manual flight planning is fairly similar to why proofs are done in geometry; you know you got the right answer because you were able to cross-check it.

Now, once a PPL, sure, use an EFB to your heart’s content, like Tony the Tiger says, they’re grrrrreat. But understand their limitations. For example, unless you configure a 1800WXBRIEF account to integrate with your chose EFB, that self briefing on the efb only exists on your EFB. If the FAA (or NTSB) had a reason to check your work, they’d need access to that efb. But configuring 1800WXBRIEF correctly allows an audit trail to be created that verifies you did in fact get that briefing.

Cc


Now, for me I use my EFB’s web-based planner for most flights, then I print out it’s navlog and fill that out manually in flight simply to compare actual to plan and use that info to make decisions with. In flight, the EFB is primarily an ADS-B traffic amd weather display, then an approach plate display, and lastly a diver/re-plan tool.

As to brands, I tried FF, GP, Avare, FltPlanGo, and actually use iFlyEFB with Avare as my backup. That gives two efbs that works on both iOS and Android. One of those is free with free charts and both have all the features a VFR pilot needs and pretty much everything but PDCs/expected routing for the IFR pilot, but you can generally get expected routing for free off FlightAware anyways.

Now, it’s story time. Occasionally, tech doesn’t work, gets garbage inputs, or loses connectivity. Keeping the pencil sharp in manual flight planning is helpful in those cases.

I used to believe like you and I never thought that belief would change. With the advent of EFBs and the change to 56 day expiration of sectionals and chart supplements most flight schools and airports no longer stock them, I have progressed.

For a CFI to comply with 61.93(a)(3), the CFI is required to provide XC ground training and 61.195(d)(2) requires the CFI to determine the student's flight preparation, planning, equipment, and proposed procedures are adequate for each proposed XC flight. Both the instruction and the CFI determination can be done with either a paper or electronic sectional / chart supplement.

A CFI should still require the student complete a paper Navlog and the student must explain the flight to the CFI. The CFI should retain a copy of the NavLog and include it in the student’s training record.

 

[TCABM]

I used to believe like you and I never thought that belief would change. With the advent of EFBs and the change to 56 day expiration of sectionals and chart supplements most flight schools and airports no longer stock them.

For a CFI to comply with 61.93(a)(3), the CFI is required to provide XC ground training and 61.195(d)(2) requires the CFI to determine the student's flight preparation, planning, equipment, and proposed procedures are adequate for each proposed XC flight. Both the instruction and the CFI determination can be done with either a paper or electronic sectional / chart supplement.

A CFI should still require the student complete a paper Navlog and the student must explain the flight to the CFI. The CFI should retain a copy of the NavLog and include it in the student’s training record.

Manual does not have to equate to paper charts and can lead to great discussions whether the EFB is giving you a heading that’s corrected for mag var and/or winds at altitude.

But there’s also value to having a couple reference copies of the local sectional to demo plotting a course and connecting the dots on downloading the appropriate charts for the planned flight so they’re available offline as well as why an EFB preflight check should include chart currency.

I’ve been using electronic charting tools since about 2001 when I got introduced to Falconview. Like anything, they have their pros and cons as well as needing to know the capabilities and limitations.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

But there’s also value to having a couple reference copies of the local sectional to demo plotting a course and connecting the dots on downloading the appropriate charts for the planned flight so they’re available offline as well as why an EFB preflight check should include chart currency.

I’ve been using electronic charting tools since about 2001 when I got introduced to Falconview. Like anything, they have their pros and cons as well as needing to know the capabilities and limitations.

I've also had my iPad overheat and shutdown inflight. IMHO, a student should definitely have a sectional as backup.

 

[WDD]

We teach our students how to flight plan using sectional charts, the E6B and telephone briefings, as it has been done for years.

I’ll offer a different POV on just a couple. A paper E6B offers no useful IMHO skills, and an electronic E6B is good for learning the principles and taking the written, but that’s about it. Same with paper sectional charts vs on line / EFB.

Indeed, I believe a student should not only use but be required to be proficient at using an EFB.

 

[Clip4]

I've also had my iPad overheat and shutdown inflight. IMHO, a student should definitely have a sectional as backup.

Or a cell phone back up.

 

[morleyz]

I used Basic as a student and then after PPL until I bought a plane. I moved to Perf Plus after becoming an owner. I find the prebuilt performance profiles are pretty accurate, which makes flight planning/fuel management stupid easy. Weather profile is snazzy. I use it in the cockpit too, taxi routing is cool on bigger fields. It moved everything I need into one EFB.

 

[jayhawk74]

I’m gonna be getting my ppl soon and was wondering what version of ForeFlight you guys think is best for that stage of flying

I still like FltPlanGo (flightplan.com). I use Forflight for work but for my own flying I use FltPlanGo, especially since it is free.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

Or a cell phone back up.

Maybe if it's mounted and then also if you've got it set for no distractions (silence texts). Nothing like the phone dialing emergency services on touchdown because it slipped in its cradle and you can't stop it because you're focused on keeping the plane on the runway while rolling in a crosswind and Tower giving you directions and your CFI yelling at you to stop futzing with your phone and track centerline. <cough> <cough> You know, a purely hypothetical scenario like that.

 

[darthanubis]

I don't know what people think we are being taught these days in flight school, but they are teaching us manually how to do everything. My CFI didn't know how to use the manual E6B. I did though. Yes, they do allow ELECTRONIC E6Bs to take the WRITTEN. I so glad they did! If you don't know how to use the E6B it won't help anyway. I had to teach myself how to use a chart to fold it over to continue the flight outside of the map. What utter nonsense, and would hate to try folding up paper in the plane. My instrument check instructor told me the benefit of having paper IFR charts. He had a binder of current plates in plastic. An absolute luddite that I look up to, because he is very sharp, ,and I do understand the value in what he was sharing. He wasn't anti-tech at all, as he allowed me to use AP while in between shooting my approaches.

But as geometry was mentioned above, learning manually is a GIVEN. But it is constantly repeated as though this is the first place low time pilots and students hear it. I couldn't find a current paper chart to take to my PPL checkride. I was worried that the DPE would fail me just for that, after listening to weird stories of such happenings.The DPE asked if I had current charts, I said I couldn't find current paper, he asked, "I see you brought your iPad, you've got Forefilght right?" I said yes, HE LAUGHED! He said that's fine. "What's your backup?" I said I had my phone, an old chart in my bag, and an external battery supply. He said, you're good to go! This is a non-issue. He asked about my performance for flight planning. I said I created a profile from the POH data. We flew it, and I was on the numbers. With any tech, even paper, garbage in garbage out. I even used FF for my IFR flight plan, and the Q&A on the low enroute chart. I'm glad my DPEs so far weren't @55holes. The DPE who "fired me" as someone here put it, failed several students over minutia. One student reported him to the FSDO, and she got her money back. He got an attitude via email, when I asked him about Forelight. He needs to retire if he isn't going to keep current of what is allowed.

Read the ACs and ACS, and don't take anyones word about any of this stuff. Or you'll think you can't use an electronic E6B on your written.

Buy the version you can afford. I had to upgrade from basic, and I run Pro. It was instrumental in getting my instrument rating! I even sprung for the Jepp plates! Those are fantastic!

 

[midlifeflyer]

I've also had my iPad overheat and shutdown inflight. IMHO, a student should definitely have a sectional as backup.

I always have a Sectional. But it’s on my EFB, not paper. The last paper charts I’ve had (VFR or IFR) was 13 years ago. The last probably expired about this time of year. No overheat shutdowns.

I do agree on having backups, but they don’t need to be paper. I had to use a backup once. Interesting that when people talk about backups, it’s usually about something happening to the tablet. In my case, it was a ForeFlight bug. Froze during an IFR flight. I switched to another EFB app on the same iPad.

I’m not disagreeing with your choice to continue to carry paper as a backup. Just saying it’s not the only choice.

I do think paper charts have an important function. They tend to be easier to lay out on a table for a student and instructor to do a ground session in chart notations and mechanical cross country planning. But, with the ability to display a tablet on a big video screen, that may have an electronic alternative as well.

 

[elvisAteMySandwich]

I’m not disagreeing with your choice to continue to carry paper as a backup. Just saying it’s not the only choice.

Sure, agree. Sorry, I only meant paper for student pilots.

 

[TCABM]

… Yes, they do allow ELECTRONIC E6Bs to take the WRITTEN. …

Just be aware an E-6B calculator is not an EFB. That calculator has been allowed for the written since at least 1999.

 

[Learnin’ to fly…]

Have found basic plus is all I need. Tried out many of the other EFB’s. Did not find anything that I thought was on par for weather planning.
I still like to use a sectional to begin my cc planning. Especially flying to a new area. I find that my nav is better that way. Helps me assemble a better “Birds Eye view” than looking at it on a screen.

FWIW - I also keep a sectional in the plane.

 

[murphey]

Another viewpoint - paper to learn the fundamentals. Open a paper chart on the table and work thru all the symbols and flight planning in comfortable setting. I always have a (somewhat) current paper chart with me to avoid single point of failure in the air. Understanding the fundamentals means when the technology changes, it's easier to adapt to those changes. Besides, paper charts are excellent fly swatters and sun shades.

Non-aviation example - arithmetic is now taught using calculators in elementary schools. Students no longer understand long division, which is a problem for those math and computer science majors in college. They freak out (and fail exams). Worse, they don't understand why it's important. Don't get me started on paper & pencil, most can't even print legibly.

 

[TCABM]

One thing I like about a sectional is easy access to the Legend. Not all EFBs integrate the legend, and FF probably does it best, but it’s clunky.

 

[Jereme Carne]

As a CFI I force all students to get good at using paper first. I find those that don't learn paper first typically always lack pilotage and dead reckoning skills...

Then when they get good at paper I show them how to properly use ForeFlight. Basic plan works great for PPL. Pro is nice with geo reference stuff but I really only use it for IFR and bigger airports

 

[WDD]

As a CFI I force all students to get good at using paper first. I find those that don't learn paper first typically always lack pilotage and dead reckoning skills...

Then when they get good at paper I show them how to properly use ForeFlight.

CFI of the year right here

 

[midlifeflyer]

Just be aware an E-6B calculator is not an EFB. That calculator has been allowed for the written since at least 1999.

I can vouch for at least since 1992.

 

[jbarrass]

Foreflight is very full featured and easy to upgrade. Basic has everything you need now, stick with it till you run out of useful features and then press the button to upgrade to learn and use more. Keep it simple.

Maybe it's my military background but I strongly believe in training like you'll fight (fly). Use the real life tools, don't skip the fundamentals, and include the pablum you'll need to get through the written.

Nearly all pilots in the real world are using an efb. Better to integrate it into your learning now with a CFI than on your own after 40+ 'ish hours.

Of course, have and learn backups. As a PP, learn to look out the window and navigate.

 

[WDD]

Amen. Learn the fundamentals, and then be taught and be proficient with Fore Flight or whatever you use.

Somewhat related is IFR. Should be a mandatory ground school for learning, training, and being proficient in your navigator (Aspen, GTN, etc.).

 

[brcase]

As a student? Learn how to do it without an EFB.

Any more that really isn't realistic, especially when you live/fly on the corner of 3 sectionals.
Nobody does anything beside local flying without an EFB any more. I just doesn't make sense to buy that many sectional every 90 days, for something you are never going use again after you get your rating.
Plus pilot training should be practical, we should be teaching students how to use the "common" tools. Plus often tools like traffic avoidance are built into these EFB, and it is import for us to teach good habits to begin with. i.e. know be careful not to pay so much attention to the EFB that you forget to fly the airplane. Was just yesterday I was flying with a Instrument pilot that was following his EFB and was way off course because he was following it and not the IFR GPS that he had not setup properly and wasn't even trying to setup it up properly. It i

On the other hand we do still need to teach basic concepts like Wind Correction angles, Deviation, Variation, Indicated Airspeed, Calibrated Airspeed, True Airspeed, Ground Speed, Density Altitude. EFB are mostly great for figuring these things out real time. They are usually terrible at teaching these concepts or figuring out hypothetical situations, or allowing the user to correct obviously wrong data (reported winds are way off, Rare but does happen).

There was a previous post asking about the "Hazing" of making students fill out paper Navigation logs. EfB''s are also terrible at showing their work, they show you a Heading, and estimated Ground speed, but don't show you how they got that number. Paper Navigation logs are easy if you understand the concepts, They are hard if you don't understand them, and if you don't understand them a pilot is going to have difficulty with a Practical test.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[midlifeflyer]

As a PP, learn to look out the window and navigate.

I made a discovery one day.

I recall being a student pilot and doing cross country without ever being really sure that what I was over was what I thought I was over. I'm not talking about previously chosen checkpoints - that's more for fuel usage/timing, but only a cross-check for position. I'm talking about the "where are you right now?" question we should all be able to answer. Student pilots often can't because they haven't really learned to read the Sectional.

Just a few years ago, I decided to do an experiment. I used my EFB but chose VFR checkpoints. First half of the flight was ownship on; the second half off. What I found was the combination of ownship and looking a ground features increased the ability to pick things out from the Sectional, even when ownship was off. The "picture" given by the sectional was easier to read after "learning" how things were depicted.

Only point is, I think when we think in terms of paper vs. plastic, we miss some good training opportunities.

 

[darthanubis]

Just be aware an E-6B calculator is not an EFB. That calculator has been allowed for the written since at least 1999.

Too many Es and Bs. I misread your sentence. Apologies.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I filled out a complete "manual" NavLog in Excel,

I still have one of those. Used it for quite a few years before EFBs came along. Full airport and navaid database too.