Foreflight showing stadium TFRs

I thought there was an exception for "takeoff or landing" to these?
 
ScottM said:
They have been there for years. Nothing new at all. You might have for the first time selected that TFRs be displayed in Foreflight.
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Before today, the Stadium TFR locations have been available in ForeFlight while using a Stratus in-flight, assuming you were displaying the TFR layer on the Maps page. And yes, those locations were all shown as "always on" (ie: red).

Now the Stadium TFR locations are also shown while you're on the ground and connected to the internet, with the TFR map overlay ON. And like in-flight, they are all shown as "always on" (ie: red).

Same caveat applies about it being up to us pilots to determine if a particular location is actually "active."

And even if they're not likely to scramble F16's to come after you if you fly through one at 2500', the FAA may still come gunning for your ticket if you bust one, so I think it's better to have them displayed then not.
 
CT4ME said:
'Hope this is a valid question....

Do the TFRs show ACTUAL TFRs, or just the stadium areas in question. I think GPilot shows "stadium TFRs", but really just shows the stadium areas, and does not show the actual TFR when the game (or whatever) is actually going on.

The only "accurate" Stadium TFR source, that I'm aware of, is on SkyVector.com
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GP (Android) shows the stadium TFRs, but it's the location, not if it's active or not.

I really don't think there's a way for FAA to know unless they have some rules in effect that forces the stadium operator to call FSS and tell them to activate it, and when. Rainouts (who'd be VFR in those conditions anyway?), extra innings, overtime, start time delays, whatever, would have to be reported and kept current. It's way simpler for FAA, and GP, to just show the location and tell us to figure it out for ourselves.

How does SkyVector know? Do they have someone that watches ESPN that activates/deactivates the TFRs all day, every day?
 
dans2992 said:
I thought there was an exception for "takeoff or landing" to these?
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Not in the text of the NOTAM. If you were landing at an airport with a tower you'd be in contact with ATC, so no problem. However, the approach to rwy 6 at KPUW goes almost directly over Martin Stadium at Washington State University. There's no tower at KPUW and if you are VFR you don't need to be talking to anyone. There's a problem. IFR and you're talking to Seattle Center. Personally, I don't care. If there's a game going on I'm already in my seat, but I understand the concern. Doesn't seem to bother Horizon Airlines, either.
 
Like I thought - strictly enforced. ;)

This only helps security if terrorists follow the regs to the letter. I've got news for you - they don't.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Except in Chicago, where it can still be difficult to get flight following sometimes. Or Vegas, I haven't had good service there either.
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I've never had a problem getting flight following up/down the shoreline, only getting clearance through the B-space.
 
azure said:
On my FF, that TFR shows up (like all the others) but the effective time is useless, since it's March 10, 2009 at 5:09 (again, like all the others). I presume that's the last date the FAA NOTAM about stadium TFRs was issued.
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Yes, that's what it appears, now that I look more closely.

There are also plenty of TFRs depicted today over areas where no game is to be played. So I would guess that this is a FF glitch due to their just turning on this feature on their server, that the info as of today is useless, but that (hopefully) they'll eventually get this straightened out and have stadium TFRs depicted only when imminent and active, and with accurate effective times (like on Skyvector).
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Well, it's better than nothing. At least it tells you where the rings around those stadiums are and gives you a "heads up" so you can ask ATC.
 
Garmin Pilot depicts them the same way. I have learned to become a sports fan. Saturdays around college towns, Sundays around NFL cities, weekends for the NASCAR events. ;)

In all seriousness, I do wish they had active times, but considering some of these stadiums are used for non sport events, it would be a major task keeping them current. I just stay away from the blue circles when I am VFR.


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Marauder said:
In all seriousness, I do wish they had active times, but considering some of these stadiums are used for non sport events, it would be a major task keeping them current. I just stay away from the blue circles when I am VFR.
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The non-sport events aren't covered by the TFR. Only NFL, MLB, Div 1 sports, and Nascar (did I miss anything?)

i.e. only those organizations with HUGE advertising revenues that they demand protection of.
 
timwinters said:
The non-sport events aren't covered by the TFR. Only NFL, MLB, Div 1 sports, and Nascar (did I miss anything?)



i.e. only those organizations with HUGE advertising revenues that they demand protection of.
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(did I miss anything?) Don't think so:

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_content.aspx?cID=42&sID=240&preview=true

But I did run into one that was new for me. Based on explanations from others, this is due to the potential gas release above these plants:

nyne3u8e.jpg





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Marauder said:
Don't think so:
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I don't know why you don't think so. Your link states:

The so-called “stadium TFR” prohibits stadium.jpgall aircraft and parachute operations at or below 3,000 AGL within a 3 nm radius of any stadium with a seating capacity of 30,000 or more people when there is a major league baseball game, NFL game, NCAA division one football game, or major motor speedway event occurring.
 
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timwinters said:
I don't know why you don't think so. Your link states:



The so-called “stadium TFR” prohibits stadium.jpgall aircraft and parachute operations at or below 3,000 AGL within a 3 nm radius of any stadium with a seating capacity of 30,000 or more people when there is a major league baseball game, NFL game, NCAA division one football game, or major motor speedway event occurring.
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Ah, the written text... I was answering your question "Did I miss anything?"... Don't think so...


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timwinters said:
I don't know why you don't think so. Your link states:



The so-called “stadium TFR” prohibits stadium.jpgall aircraft and parachute operations at or below 3,000 AGL within a 3 nm radius of any stadium with a seating capacity of 30,000 or more people when there is a major league baseball game, NFL game, NCAA division one football game, or major motor speedway event occurring.
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Fixed my original response so it is clear I am answering your question.


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Ahhhh...I guess need another cup of coffee!

(Off to get one now)

Later! :)
 
I just found what appears to be a glitch with foreflight's stadium TFR depictions. Over on the other thread, Duke Blue spoke of Williams-Brice Stadium in Columbia, SC. Div 1, holds 80,000.

There's no TFR depicted in ForeFlight. So I started cruising around. There's no TFR at Fayetteville, AR (home of the Razorbacks). I'm confident that there's probably more.

Be careful out there!
 
timwinters said:
I just found what appears to be a glitch with foreflight's stadium TFR depictions. Over on the other thread, Duke Blue spoke of Williams-Brice Stadium in Columbia, SC. Div 1, holds 80,000.

There's no TFR depicted in ForeFlight. So I started cruising around. There's no TFR at Fayetteville, AR (home of the Razorbacks). I'm confident that there's probably more.

Be careful out there!
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I email our contact at the LIT FSDO for clarification on these TFRs. I am waiting to hear back.
 
Matthew said:
How does SkyVector know? Do they have someone that watches ESPN that activates/deactivates the TFRs all day, every day?
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Yes they do. You'd think the FAA, with 50,000 employees and $15Billion budget would have a person. Heck, now that I've mentioned it, I can see some upper-level supervisor's nephew doing it for, say, $200K /yr.
 
ARFlyer said:
I email our contact at the LIT FSDO for clarification on these TFRs. I am waiting to hear back.
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What possible answer could FSDO give about how/when/why a commercial software program displays stadium TFRs?
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
What possible answer could FSDO give about how/when/why a commercial software program displays stadium TFRs?
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I emailed regarding how pilots can figure out which stadium TFRs are currently active. Since the information is not published how can we possibly know. I only mentioned FF as a side topic since I know the person I emailed uses it.
 
Ron Levy said:
Worth doing.
You can try that, but the FAA response to that question in the past has been, essentially, "the information on those games is available from public sources; other than that, it's your problem, not ours".

Good reason to be in contact with ATC any time you're anywhere near one of those games/stadiums. Generally, if ATC doesn't report you, nobody else will, and ATC contact is generally sufficient to cover you even to transit those areas (but not to loiter).
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ATC, at least around here, had no clue on hours for a stadium TFR. NASCAR in town, I'm heading back into local area on flight following and I ask ATC if the TFR is still active. They did not know. What time was the race over? They did not know.
 
It's interesting, in the New York Class B it depicts a TFR for the Meadowlands (NY Football Giants), but nothing for Citifield (Mets) or for Yankee Stadium.

This is curious because from April though September/October the Yankee Stadium TFR is on my checklist for Hudson River VFR Corridor flights. I carry a Yankees home schedule in my flight bag. Citifield is practically IN LaGuardia Airport so you can't get anywhere near it without being under positive control, same is true for the Meadowlands right next to TEB, but the Yankee Stadium TFR impinges on the river corridor and VFR pilots can bust it if the are unaware if it is active.

So why is the Meadowlands depicted but not Yankee Stadium?

10419411_10153046566147788_4992947205122830334_n.jpg
 
tomf188 said:
It's interesting, in the New York Class B it depicts a TFR for the Meadowlands (NY Football Giants), but nothing for Citifield (Mets) or for Yankee Stadium.

This is curious because from April though September/October the Yankee Stadium TFR is on my checklist for Hudson River VFR Corridor flights. I carry a Yankees home schedule in my flight bag. Citifield is practically IN LaGuardia Airport so you can't get anywhere near it without being under positive control, same is true for the Meadowlands right next to TEB, but the Yankee Stadium TFR impinges on the river corridor and VFR pilots can bust it if the are unaware if it is active.

So why is the Meadowlands depicted but not Yankee Stadium?

10419411_10153046566147788_4992947205122830334_n.jpg
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Garmin Pilot shows something different:

asuju9yg.jpg



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BillTIZ said:
ATC, at least around here, had no clue on hours for a stadium TFR. NASCAR in town, I'm heading back into local area on flight following and I ask ATC if the TFR is still active. They did not know. What time was the race over? They did not know.
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If they don't know, they won't be writing you up. In that case, if you don't go close enough for anyone in the crowd to read your N-number, and you're talking to ATC, you have nothing to worry about.
 
major speedway event...ummm... does qualifying day count? what about Truck Series? Nationwide Series?

I'm not looking for answers but rather it seems like a gray area.
 
timwinters said:
I just found what appears to be a glitch with foreflight's stadium TFR depictions. Over on the other thread, Duke Blue spoke of Williams-Brice Stadium in Columbia, SC. Div 1, holds 80,000.

There's no TFR depicted in ForeFlight. So I started cruising around. There's no TFR at Fayetteville, AR (home of the Razorbacks). I'm confident that there's probably more.
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Well, maybe they do turn them on and off during the sports' respective seasons? It'll be a couple months before there are any Div. I games. I know I haven't seen Miller Park depicted outside of baseball season.
 
Badger said:
major speedway event...ummm... does qualifying day count? what about Truck Series? Nationwide Series?

I'm not looking for answers but rather it seems like a gray area.
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Here's the whole TFR:

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_9_5151.html

>>
THIS NOTAM ALSO APPLIES TO NASCAR SPRINT CUP, INDY CAR, END PART 1 OF 2 FDC 9/5151 FDC PART 2 OF 2 .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. SPORTING EVENTS. EFFECTIVE AND CHAMP SERIES RACES EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS.
<<
 
So, what is the alleged purpose of these TFRs? It can't be the security of people on the ground; they're too inconsistent, and a three-mile radius doesn't allow any response. Is it like the tiny TFR over Bush's house, to prevent looky-loos?
 
Lindberg said:
So, what is the alleged purpose of these TFRs? It can't be the security of people on the ground; they're too inconsistent, and a three-mile radius doesn't allow any response. Is it like the tiny TFR over Bush's house, to prevent looky-loos?
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Probably more to prevent someone from flying banners overhead advertising for the local "gentleman's club".
 
Lindberg said:
So, what is the alleged purpose of these TFRs? It can't be the security of people on the ground; they're too inconsistent, and a three-mile radius doesn't allow any response. Is it like the tiny TFR over Bush's house, to prevent looky-loos?
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It was the leagues' desire to get rid of the one source of advertising they had no control over: Aerial banners. In the shortly-post-9/11 hysteria, it was quite easy for them to persuade the powers that be at the FAA to enact this TFR in the guise of "security". As you've noticed, they really don't make anything more secure at all, there'd be no way they'd have time to launch a response if you were going to crash into the stadium.

It was simply to get rid of those pesky banners, nothing more. :nono:
 
I don't care much what the reason is, only how to avoid getting ripped for violating one. The rest I leave to the politicians, and this ain't the Spin Zone. ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It was the leagues' desire to get rid of the one source of advertising they had no control over: Aerial banners. In the shortly-post-9/11 hysteria, it was quite easy for them to persuade the powers that be at the FAA to enact this TFR in the guise of "security".
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That might be. There's certainly no possibility of intercepting a small plane flown by a terrorist after it enters such a small ring.

I can point to a similar example of profitably exploiting post 9/11 hysteria in the guise of security. Our stadium for Divison I football enacted a rule after 9/11 that fans could not leave the stadium and then return during the game. The athletic department claimed this was necessary for security, post 9/11. The skeptic, however, would argue this rule was intended to maximize food and beverage revenue by preventing fans from enjoying the plentiful and higher quality offerings of the street vendors.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, maybe they do turn them on and off during the sports' respective seasons? It'll be a couple months before there are any Div. I games. I know I haven't seen Miller Park depicted outside of baseball season.
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Well, except that a lot of other div 1 stadiums are on, Champaign, IL; Bloomington, IN; Bowling Green, OH, Clemson, etc., etc.

And it seems like it's hit and miss. Columbia, MO was on the other day, it's off now. Columbia, NC was off, it's now on.

:confused:
 
ForeFlight just updated the Stadium TFR display to add additional locations and show actual game/event schedules.

Just like "regular" TFRs, Stadium TFRs more than 24 hours in the future are shown in yellow, Stadium TFRs within 24 hours are shown in red.

http://blog.foreflight.com/2014/06/12/stadium-tfrs/
 

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  • Stadium TFRs.jpg
    Stadium TFRs.jpg
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Saw this for the first time yesterday. How could this not be considered official?


TFR_zps3c7454ef.jpg
 
MachFly said:
In the details of the TFR it says that the event times are estimated.
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Well....OK....baseball is the only team sport played without a clock. I once went to a Yankee game that went about 14 innings and we didn't get out of there until after midnight.
 
Badger said:
major speedway event...ummm... does qualifying day count? what about Truck Series? Nationwide Series?

I'm not looking for answers but rather it seems like a gray area.
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Nope, it's pretty much spelled out in the NOTAM: only the "big" race for NASCAR SPRINT CUP or IRL. It mentions CHAMP races as well but those haven't existed in bunch of years. None of the minor (Nationwide, Truck,...) or qualifying applies.

While a lot of flight planners put circles over the various stadia that MIGHT have one of the covered sports, only a few actually have put the schedules in. The FAA doesn't bother to publish the time/locations these apply. I suspect that it was a lot less memory to put the NFL schedules or even NASCAR than all the baseball games in...

It's right up there with the stupid nuke plant TFR where they listed the plants with only "approximate" locations that were insufficient to actually figure out where they were. They even put the two collocated reactors at Salem in different places (even in different states...they put one in Delaware).
 
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