Foreflight: Pack for your trip

[Caramon13]

I don't use FF anymore, but when I did that was one of the really annoying things. I didn't always have a FP, and I sometimes don't even want to bother to do a route if I'm going to the same place I've been 100 times.

There's no way to REALLY know if you are getting all the updated NOTAMS, etc like @Fearless Tower found unless you Pack.

Of course I'd check ahead of time anyway (that's how I'd know which ones were missing) but if I go to an airport's info page in FF, I should be able to "update now" or something..to get everything instead of having to do a freakin' route and "pack".

 

[wsuffa]

The more features that get added, the more complex it gets to use. Sometimes bare-bones that does the functions needed is better and safer.

I'd hate to have to figure out some of the feature stuff in a high-workload IFR environment. And yes, I have FF.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I didn't always have a FP, and I sometimes don't even want to bother to do a route if I'm going to the same place I've been 100 times.

I have FF set to pull all the charts I'd ever need for my home state and all surrounding states. That covers my non-route flying.

There's no way to REALLY know if you are getting all the updated NOTAMS, etc like @Fearless Tower found unless you Pack.

Or File & Brief. Or do it on the ground where you'll have an internet connection.

Of course I'd check ahead of time anyway (that's how I'd know which ones were missing) but if I go to an airport's info page in FF, I should be able to "update now" or something..to get everything instead of having to do a freakin' route and "pack".

If you're on the ground and hit the NOTAMs button on the airport, it goes and gets them from the internet, right now. "Pack" is simply to ensure you'll have everything you need after takeoff when you won't have an internet connection available to retrieve them any more.

I'm not sure how that could be improved - They could download all NOTAMs for everywhere, but how do they know when you're going to take off? Unless there's a continuous download as long as there's an Internet connection, there's no way for it to read your mind and figure out where you might go. That'd also hit those without unlimited data plans pretty hard.

How do you think it should work?

 

[Caramon13]

I have FF set to pull all the charts I'd ever need for my home state and all surrounding states. That covers my non-route flying.

Or File & Brief. Or do it on the ground where you'll have an internet connection.

If you're on the ground and hit the NOTAMs button on the airport, it goes and gets them from the internet, right now. "Pack" is simply to ensure you'll have everything you need after takeoff when you won't have an internet connection available to retrieve them any more.

I'm not sure how that could be improved - They could download all NOTAMs for everywhere, but how do they know when you're going to take off? Unless there's a continuous download as long as there's an Internet connection, there's no way for it to read your mind and figure out where you might go. That'd also hit those without unlimited data plans pretty hard.

How do you think it should work?

Hmm...not sure that bolded statement is ALWAYS right. Maybe it is, but I seem to recall several occasions when I was connected to the internet via wi-fi or cellular and it did NOT update. The NOTAMS online did not match the ones I had on FF.

I got paranoid about it and just stopped using it entirely. Even when I had FF I still downloaded all my junk for a flight from separate sources online and backed it up with FSS if it was REALLY important.

But still, why should I have to have a route and "Pack" for it? Can't I just pick a couple airports and update those and go? What if I'm on the ground at an airport and I change my mind but I don't want to change my route/file, etc...hit an airport and boom update all info for that airport only..

Again, maybe it DOES all this stuff now, but dunno..

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

how do they know when you're going to take off? Unless there's a continuous download as long as there's an Internet connection, there's no way for it to read your mind and figure out where you might go.

I think it should be geared to the flight plan, Kent.
Load a plan and it should automatically brief/pack.
With an 'off' switch in the settings, for those who don't want it using data unannounced.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I think it should be geared to the flight plan, Kent.
Load a plan and it should automatically brief/pack.
With an 'off' switch in the settings, for those who don't want it using data unannounced.

My point is, that still wouldn't get rid of the need to hit the "Pack" button, unless you plan your flight immediately prior to firing up the engine and leaving, otherwise FF would have to be continuously updating.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I see - I suppose some folks plan twelve hours in advance of the flight - I usually am doing it as I am leaving the front door; exclamation mark - So I am a little different.
but, hey - don't most computers have clocks? The ipad could pack for those people either thirty minutes before flight, or any preset time before flight. And for me, they could do it immediately. If they detect a wifi/data signal they could update every thirty minutes.

sorry for the verbiage, this keyboard wont let me use most of the top row

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I see - I suppose some folks plan twelve hours in advance of the flight - I usually am doing it as I am leaving the front door; exclamation mark - So I am a little different.
but, hey - don't most computers have clocks? The ipad could pack for those people either thirty minutes before flight, or any preset time before flight. And for me, they could do it immediately. If they detect a wifi/data signal they could update every thirty minutes.

Interesting. However, I usually don't put a departure time in my flight plan unless I'm filing IFR, so it's always "now". I guess I'd be the one breaking it, as usual.

 

[denverpilot]

I think the airport data and notam data is probably happening "now" when you go to those screens, but if you're on a very slow (read: airport) wifi link that's severely bandwidth restricted, it doesn't do a very good job of telling you it's trying to update something in the background.

All you have to go on, and it's legitimate, is the time the last one was pulled for METARs and what not. You should know the cycle times. But...

I don't think it's very user friendly about telling you if it's stuck trying to download something in the background and it's taking a while or not really transferring at all.

Would be pretty easy to simulate with a firewall inbetween FF and the Net. Randomly block things it's trying to do and see how it tells or doesn't tell you it's having problems.

Standard coder mistake -- assuming the network doesn't suck or isn't malicious. When doing QA work on such software it's usually really easy to find it by injecting spoofed IP RST packets toward either end of any TCP connection. If the error handling is right, the software will both try again and notify the user it's having problems updating something. If it's wrong, it often tries again but never tells the user it's having trouble, and you can keep it stuck in a loop by just messing with the network.

And yeah, there's broken networks out there that'll do stuff like that and worse.

 

[BigBadLou]

Interesting. However, I usually don't put a departure time in my flight plan unless I'm filing IFR, so it's always "now". I guess I'd be the one breaking it, as usual.

If you put in the correct ETD, you get the benefit of time and fuel calculation based on predicted winds aloft. Not required but it is helpful.